Occultism and Satanism is the same thing. Part 3: Giants and Monsters Oh my!

reply to post by Melissa101


Well, this is not answering my question, in any way. However, what I meant was simply that to explain my belief regarding certains things requires a much more complicated, and as I said, convoluted explanation than most people care to hear.

For me, "Take it as a matter of faith" is not good enough, I personally need to know all I can. I need to know the meaning behind things, behind symbols, words and actions.

My belief system is much more complicated than what I have found in most other people I have met. Complicated is not meant to mean "better than" it means, as I said, complicated.

For me to believe something, to take it as "The gospel truth", it must have an explanation that sits right with me. Personally, that explanation needs to be rather complex, it's simply how I am.

Originally posted by Shadowflux

Originally posted by Melissa101
If you want to test me you have my full undivided attention. Go for it.

Ok, then answer my previous question. How can you be so sure that the force which inspires you, the voice which you hear inside, is in fact divinely inspired and not the work of negative forces, that which you term "demons"?

How do you know you are praying to the God you believe you are praying to if you do not even call him by his proper names? Do you pray to YHWH? You pray to Jesus yet that is not his name, it is Yeshua, how do you know you are not answered by forces other than those you are petitioning?

I find it hard to imagine that God, that from which all things come and to which all things go, that which all things are inseparable from, that which flows through all, would inspire you to condemn as evil His own creations. There is no separation between you and I and God, we are part of God and he is part of us, why would he inspire you to condemn a part of himself?

First: (There is no separation between you and I and God) We were separated from God because of sin but Jesus (if you accept him) is our bridge to God.

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


Second: I pray to my father which art in heaven, but yes I call him Jesus, I have read arguments that we should call him Yeshua, but my Bible says Jesus and I have faith that Jesus and God knows who I am referring to weather Jesus be correct or not.

Third: How do you know you are praying to the God you believe you are praying to? I followed the plan of salvation and know in my soul that I am saved by the grace of God through Jesus Christ. I feel the Holy Spirit, I changed after being saved. I am able to forgive where my heart was at one time hard. I am not easily angered, I am filled with a joy that could only be experienced. I am at peace; I love like I was unable to before. I have faith and I am blessed in so many ways it is inconceivable. I know my father and he knows me, this too can only be experienced and not put into words.

Fourth: (to condemn as evil His own creations.) What? Please give an example of where I have condemned God’s own creations?

Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by Melissa101

 

Well, this is not answering my question, in any way. However, what I meant was simply that to explain my belief regarding certains things requires a much more complicated, and as I said, convoluted explanation than most people care to hear.

For me, "Take it as a matter of faith" is not good enough, I personally need to know all I can. I need to know the meaning behind things, behind symbols, words and actions.

My belief system is much more complicated than what I have found in most other people I have met. Complicated is not meant to mean "better than" it means, as I said, complicated.

For me to believe something, to take it as "The gospel truth", it must have an explanation that sits right with me. Personally, that explanation needs to be rather complex, it's simply how I am.

We share the desire to know the meaning behind things such as symbols and words. When researching the original meaning of words I have found much to validate my beliefs. Like Gene; original meaning Satan/Lucifer. So Gene in a bottle and the granting of wishes is not from a vivid imagination. It is put into our culture in cartoons and sitcoms as a harmless fairy tale when in fact is in reference to the selling of ones soul. In the Middle East they still use the word Gene and it is common knowledge what they are refering to and the ability to sell ones soul.
That is one of many examples.

reply to post by Melissa101


Gene ? You mean Djinn.

Satan / Lucifer do not come from the legends of the genie. The genies were rogue trickster spirits, they are an original form of demon (non physical entity that does not reside in heaven), they are not in anyway linked to the idea of the Shaitan. They are not fallen, they are natural demons. Therefore they are neither part of the Shaitan legend nor the Lucifer one, though you could argue that Lucifer is ruler of hell and therefore all demons do what he says its very subjective on that part though.

The idea of the genie in the bottle was from the bible, thats what Solomon did to demons (Djinn) that where plaguing the area.

[edit on 6-3-2010 by gYvMessanger]

the more you concentrate your efforts on centralizing your thoughts of a "Messiah"... being one particular person...
...the more you endlessly cast yourself into the emptiness of ignorance.

the "Messiah" is YOU. it is found within your OWN BLOOD.

If you practice white tantra.. and within the sacred beauty of intercourse.. bring the sacred sexual energy up from your pelvis.. up through your spine up into your spine.. up into your brain...

and correlate that with loving understanding of the unity of the ALL...

then you are more prone to consecrating yourself.. and your mate..

and being closer to the truth withstanding... regardless of all this superficial hyperbole.

there is no person called satan... "satan" is the "adversary" which is your OWN challenge within.. your own living animal which challenges you constantly..
the REAL challenge.. is to convert your understanding of this.. in order to challenge yourSELF.

may all beings be happy.

@ Melissa101.

Hi, I've been following your last few threads. I've noticed you have accepted the bog of Enoch as a reliable source.
I believe there is much more to read and learn. Just like the the book of Enoch there are a few other ignored scriptures around which you have to read before making all kinds of assumptions.

I'll name a few.
The First Book of Adam and Eve
The Second Book of Adam and Eve
Testament of Reuben,Simeon Levi, Juda,Issachar, Zebulun, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Ascher, Joseph and Benjamin

The Book of Jubilees where Noah is also mentioned ( a lot )

The Apocrypha. ( books and scriptures left out of the bible)

Enjoy ! I've only just begun.

What I'm trying to say is that the outcome of your findings will be wrong. You simply did not use all in existence in relation to your topic.

Unless it does not matter to you of course.

reply to post by XXXN3O


I found in a few other translations "jasher" is spelled. "jashar"

His book is mentioned here too.
2 samuel 1:18

Hope this helps your research. Look forward to your thread.

Since you are connected with the Holy Spirit and you feel guidance....finding the answers to things people are telling you are easy.

Go within, humble yourself before God, and make sure you make it clear you are bringing yourself before the Most High One of Love and Mercy. You must be clear in the nature you are seeking. Ask God if Thee every claimed a special people, ask Thee if Thee ever demanded blood sacrifices, ask Thee if Thee is worried about a land here on Earth....ask Thee...if Jesus HAD to die for you.

If you are ready to see the boundless love and ways of the Holy Spirit, you will have eyes to see what God is and is not. Be ready for the sadness that will come when you see man has mistaken the path to God for so long.

As close minded you are with the Bible's stories, I dont think you know God as you feel you do. You place attributes onto God from a book...when you have never personal experienced such things yourself.

Have you ever experienced God being jealous....if so....you might want to make sure you are not following a darkness that is not perfect nor Holy.

If you are able to seek God with a open mind....and humble yourself in that you know nothing, we are only fools to think we can know the answers....you just might get a glimpse of what Gods might is all about.

Melissa, ask God if he has ever been separated from man. Without your imprinted thoughts in your mind from the book, ask God sincerely. Man has always had a bridge to God, we were made with our bodies to be instruments for this, we all have higher selves that bridge us at all times to Thee. Jesus is a great bridge that can be used also. But mankind himself and herself can and has always had a way to God, for its not in Gods ways to have it any other way.

Just a note....the God I am telling you of, the perfect unseen on...you will not find Thee by calling Thee a human name....its best to know that Thee is nameless without limits and bounds to our language or physical existence. You are placing a man before God, this will cause you to only go so far in spiritual wisdom's and relation to God. It doesnt mean Jesus wont comfort you or that God and Jesus both ill not send you love and peace...for this is their nature, it is what they do. But your understanding of things of spirit will only be limited to what you are ready to see.

Just because you feel the Holy Spirit doesnt mean your path to salvation is the path to God.

Like I said, God, the Holy Spirit, Jesus....their natures are of spiritual things, they are love, they will comfort. You are at least open enough to allow them to do this, for you feel the love and peace they offer you.

But know this will never sway, you can bend and twist....but if you come to God with a honest heart and humble mind, you will receive comfort, you will receive love, this is the might of heaven, the might of love. Its why love is the strongest weapon, it is the best conquer.

Your path to salvation is a blood soaked path. I offer you a wisdom, I step over the bounds of your free will and I tell you, your path is not a path to heaven...but to remain on this Earth. For blood sacrifice is a practice of man, its not Holy and it is not of God.

The day you know JEsus did not have to die for anyone....but he had the choice just like we all have the choice....is the day your soul will truly sing. Why? Cause its hard to not join in singing when we feel the heaevns sing. The heavens sing when we can see....all God needed or needs is a honest heart and humble mind. He required no death of any creature. We carry our wrongs, we claim are good deeds. The day you stop passing your buck onto another (Satan or Jesus) is the day you start to claim back your right as a spiritual being.

The hardest part of thsi whole twist....is the guilt. The guilt for once thinking the ways of man were rightfully so for what we call Holy. But the great thing....God is understanding. THEE UNDERSTNADS WHY WE BELIEVE AND PLACE FAITH IN SUCH THINGS. God is not angered in the things we know not. Thee is patient and is waiting to lift our heads back up when are eyes start to see.

You have purpose here Melissa, I feel it and I know you are seeking. Its up to you to truly seek.

How can all of this be so???? Because God uses ways of man to mark our spiritual growth. If a being is still needing to learn things of Earth, they will need a path of Earthly ways and Earthly practices. Its not wrong, for its what they can see. No path is wrong when they all teach us and lead us in who and what we are. Our past as mankind needed all the beliefs that man tried and found understanding with. ALL of them were needed and ALL of them are a part of Gods plan.

You might start seeing how everything is perfectly perfect in Gods eyes....if you can go to Thee with new eyes and ears. You have faith that it is God and the Holy Spirit that you are being comforted by right....so have faith that they will show you things you might not know from that book.

When man goes to God without preconceived ideas of what God is...man comes away with the same wisdom every time. Its not confusing, its not contradicting, its not conflicting....its the same, its love, every time. There is no wrath, no jealousy, no anger. God is not those things...Im offering you to see God for what Thee is. For what you are spreading about God does not do justice to what is Holy and Perfect.

I remember in one of your posts you shrugged something someone told you off because you said your book warned you of such people and things.

Melissa, allow God to be the one to warn you and prepare you. The Holy Spirit prepared me in the path I walk, it took months, almost a year, for cleansing and learning spiritual things. It wasnt something I was just told....I was shown why, how, what. What was I prepared for? How lonely the path is in that humans wont see or hear. Its like I was tested to see if I was strong enough to hold firm in the wisdom I was receiving.

You take a scripture as literal when it tells you there will be those that speak different beliefs or speak against yours....this is not spiritual wisdom, it just happens to ANYONE that has a belief. Its the life of faith for all likes of faith. But dont forget, Jesus warned against the scribes just the same, he warned against the ways of the Jews.

Use Jesus as your guide, if this makes you feel more comfortable to question things of spirit. Jesus will show you the same things...for it was he who showed me. I great place to start....ask with your heart to Jesus, is God a jealous God. Ask with your heart to Jesus, did you have to die. If you are ready to see...you will be shown. How do I know. Because a true seeking heart will find the way.

All my best


[edit on 6-3-2010 by LeoVirgo]

[edit on 6-3-2010 by LeoVirgo]

reply to post by gYvMessanger


I do believe Satan is the leader of all demons. In Demonology and the order of demons this is laid out. I like to think of the order of demons like you would a corporation. You have the CEO and then you have different heads of departments. So I suppose I often use Satan as a broad term to label all of the demon world. Mostly becasue I have yet to memorize all of them, their order (functions) and names.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
@ Melissa101.

Hi, I've been following your last few threads. I've noticed you have accepted the bog of Enoch as a reliable source.
I believe there is much more to read and learn. Just like the the book of Enoch there are a few other ignored scriptures around which you have to read before making all kinds of assumptions.

I'll name a few.
The First Book of Adam and Eve
The Second Book of Adam and Eve
Testament of Reuben,Simeon Levi, Juda,Issachar, Zebulun, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Ascher, Joseph and Benjamin

The Book of Jubilees where Noah is also mentioned ( a lot )

The Apocrypha. ( books and scriptures left out of the bible)

Enjoy ! I've only just begun.

What I'm trying to say is that the outcome of your findings will be wrong. You simply did not use all in existence in relation to your topic.

Unless it does not matter to you of course.

Interesting; I have read The Book of Jubilees, The Book of Thomas and a few more. I am always interested in learning more as I do feel like I have many unanswered questions. I think we have unanswered questions and we use the knowledge we have to come to conclusions and as more knowledge is added we may validate our conclusions or change them. Thank you for the recourses I look forward to reading them.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


LeoVirgo,

I agree that we must humble our selves and throw away all pre concieved notions to truly find God. I am not sure you have read my OP in the first thread where I stated that I had to do just that to come to where I am now. I often ave to go back and humble myslef because I am flesh so it is natural to need to do so over and over. Also I agree with most of what you are saying and I believe you can find the evidence of that in what I consistantly say over and over in my posts. I am not sure who you think you are to judge someone elses knowledge or relationship with God. THis is contradicting some of your other statements. Please offer me a quote to when I shrugged someone off because I had been warned not to listen to people with other ideas. I need to see what I said and in what context to reply on that point. The word is the truth and the living spirit of God. If we do not go by the Bible then what are we to go by. Our heart? Oh dear, your heart is the easiest place for Satan to decieve you. One must be most carefull when following the heart. When one is saved they have the Holy Spirit, you are then a child of God. I also agree that Jesus had a choice he did not have to die for us but out of love and for his father he did. We are saved by grace through Jesus Christ and as believers we should praise Jesus everyday for his gift and praise God everyday for sending his only son to die a horrible death that we may live eternal life in heaven. Please explein to me how you think you are the chosen one to tell others that they are not on the path to heaven or that the Bible should not be followed? This is not an attack, simply a question.
Oh and also I have another question, I believe that astrology and birth signs are also against the teaching in the Bible, yet your name is LeoVirgo? Do you subscribe to these singns with the knowledge that you have. I believe the bible states in: Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain:
Please, this is not an attack, but I cannot help but question your level of understanding. You claim to know and understand so much yet your very name contradicts this. You said that to know God and to walk with him we should not be of this world or with this world and I agree but is not astrology and horoscope signs just that; of the world, mans customs and beliefs?

[edit on 6-3-2010 by Melissa101]

reply to post by Melissa101


Satan or Lucifer ? Satan is the adversery but not generlly considered ruler in hell, Lucifer is seen as the ruler of hell but that does not make either of them ruler of demons.

The bible clearly states Asmodeus is the King of Demons, it also states that Asmodeus (though he is a demon) enjoys studying holy scripture and sometimes goes to heaven (where he is permitted entry) in order to debate the angels.

With that in mind the whole of your Djinn theory (at the very least) falls pretty flat.

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

LeoVirgo,

I agree that we must humble our selves and throw away all pre concieved notions to truly find God. I am not sure you have read my OP in the first thread where I stated that I had to do just that to come to where I am now. I often ave to go back and humble myslef because I am flesh so it is natural to need to do so over and over. Also I agree with most of what you are saying and I believe you can find the evidence of that in what I consistantly say over and over in my posts. I am not sure who you think you are to judge someone elses knowledge or relationship with God. THis is contradicting some of your other statements. Please offer me a quote to when I shrugged someone off because I had been warned not to listen to people with other ideas. I need to see what I said and in what context to reply on that point. The word is the truth and the living spirit of God. If we do not go by the Bible then what are we to go by. Our heart? Oh dear, your heart is the easiest place for Satan to decieve you. One must be most carefull when following the heart. When one is saved they have the Holy Spirit, you are then a child of God. I also agree that Jesus had a choice he did not have to die for us but out of love and for his father he did. We are saved by grace through Jesus Christ and as believers we should praise Jesus everyday for his gift and praise God everyday for sending his only son to die a horrible death that we may live eternal life in heaven. Please explein to me how you think you are the chosen one to tell others that they are not on the path to heaven or that the Bible should not be followed? This is not an attack, simply a question.
Oh and also I have another question, I believe that astrology and birth signs are also against the teaching in the Bible, yet your name is LeoVirgo? Do you subscribe to these singns with the knowledge that you have. I believe the bible states in: Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain:
Please, this is not an attack, but I cannot help but question your level of understanding. You claim to know and understand so much yet your very name contradicts this. You said that to know God and to walk with him we should not be of this world or with this world and I agree but is not astrology and horoscope signs just that; of the world, mans customs and beliefs?

[edit on 6-3-2010 by Melissa101]

Its not about being chosen. But when one gains understanding...what would they be to keep the wisdom to theirselves? This would be greed would it not? When you see a lost child...would you ignore them and not offer guidance? Is what I am doing any different then what you are doing?

Through my spiritual experiences, my offering of self to the will of God was a must. So this is the path I must walk. The Holy Spirit reminds me daily...that I was never told it would be easy. If fact just the oppostie, I was prepared for its hardships. The offering of my life of flesh was a key. The understanding that this is not the life I am to live for was another key.

You look at it as I am judging you...I look at it as I am making an offering to you. I admit this action of mine steps over the bounds of another's free will, for it is only through your personal path that you should understand spiritual things...not through the words of another being of flesh as myself.

You may be cautious to seek within the heart...for the fear man has placed onto you about being tricked or mislead. All I can ask you is...do you not have faith God will lead you? Do you doubt that when you offer yourself to Thee that Thee wont be the one to guide you? If you cant place faith in that....then what can you place faith in?

A heart will see what it is capable of. If it seeks Earthly things, then yes, spritual wisdoms will be distroted with Earthly ways. Its not Satan that does this...but its the effect of the cause of spirit within flesh. There is much delusion and distortion....for a heart that is still in need of Earthly wisdoms. The reason I write to you...is I believe you are ready for more then Earthly ways. You can look at it as another human reaching out to judge you, I see it as the Holy Spirit reaching out to open your eyes.

I am not special...I am not chosen. God does not work that way. We all have the same capablitity, we all have a path that we must walk for understanding.

You were born a child of God btw...and God wants all to know this. Why would I keep such things from others? It is their spiritual right to know they are born children of God. They are loved beyond imagination. The love will not fail nor go away.

If you learned that man has made God in an image that was not Holy and that misrepresented the nature of God...would you be silent? I think not.

We must discern things through the Holy Spirit....all things and everything. To do this, we have to understand what Holy means and what Spirit is.

God didnt leave you a book of material, Thee left you with the book of life, it must be read with the heart. If we took all books away, Gods book of life would still be perfect in every way.

Fear leads to two things....fight or flight. What we should really fear is the distortion that living in the flesh creates. We must discern it all, all histories and all peoples way.

I would not just tell anyone what I tell you, even though there are others that read what I write here to you. The reason is answers cant be just given. They must be found so there is understanding. This is why I confess to stepping over bounds of your free will....because I offer you something you dont have understanding of yet nor can you gain it with the words I write. But this is also why I state you must seek this yourself, and ask you to test what you say through the Holy Spirit. Dont be so fast to reverb what you read in a book.

Another reason for my purpose....I have walked the path, I have once had faith in placing my sins onto another and being saved through that being. Its only right that I spend time showing others where my new steps have taking me and how I gained new understandings. I dont seek self salvation...I seek the world to understand how tainted we have made the nature of God in our eyes and hearts. Life is not about self salvation...its about true offering of self to things of spirit so Gods will begins to work through us here.

God will never deny any soul Thee's love. This is hard for humans to grasp, for we have limits for our love. Many think God can one day just stop loving his children. Again, many distortions has been made by man about the nature of God, therefor, we dont have understanding of God.

God is so much more simple then what man has made these image out to be. But its rightfully so if a man cant see past the bounds we place on God...this only shows God this being has much to still learn what is of Earth. Its not wrong or bad...God is understanding and patient.

When I learned how tainted our image of God was....I could not stand, I could not raise by head before Thee. I thought I would forever remain in sorrow over this and shame. But God was not mad nor sad, for Thee showed it was all needed, its all a part of the process of sifting what is of Earth and what is of Spirit. God showed me it was all meant to be the way it is and helped me stand again amongst fellow man.

The book was meant to be, but its purpose is more about discernment between what is of man and what is of spirit.

You might be afraid to count on God leading you with your heart...but it is the reason God made us as a instrument the Holy Spirit can work through. Our bodies are the Temple, built without human hands....the kingdom within is no joke and should be taken very seriously.

If you found out tomorrow that mankind has been wrong...would you keep silent? If you discovered that mankind on a massive scale was walking in a path that led farther away from things of Spirit...would you keep this to yourself? Surely not.....

Dont take my word for it....test things through the Holy Spirit. How can you do this? The Holy Spirit is within life itself....you are life, your body is an instrument....trust in the Holy Spirit to fill you and show you things no book can do and no person can show you.

In peace
LV

reply to post by Melissa101

My dear Melissa, you have a lot of nerve calling somebody else arrogant. It amazes me that you completely fail to see your own arrogance towards other peoples belief systems.
You bash scientology church, wiccans and pagans and satanists. The only source for this incredible arrogance is your own belief system. You have nothing else to bring in besides that.
Not only is your conclusion arrogant and narrow minded, the things you mention as facts, proof to me you have no true knowledge of these matters. The horned god of the wiccans and the pre christian cultures was introduced by the christian church as the image of Satan.
NOT the other way round. Get your facts straight and if you can't, stop insulting other peoples beliefs.

Melissa,

I've been following your thread quite closely for the past few days, and I don't think you'll find a better intellectual adversary than the people that have challenged your beliefs in the past few days. I consider myself one of them. But I have also been meditating a lot on what you have been writing about. I do not believe the words of the Bible, because they were transcribed by man...whether they were prophets or not. But I'm starting to see a small connection that I did not see before (and this is from years of study in various forms of religion and practice).

The overwhelming theme in ALL religions is about someone that is "full of sin" or bad karma or what have you, worshiping a higher and wiser power than themselves. The common denominator in all religions (except for a few select few) is the concept of an afterlife and judgment. Of course, historically, there have been many that have used this "divine knowledge" to enslave or kill others that did not hold to these standards. "Follow me or suffer in the afterlife" as many have said in years past. Where does that tie into Yeshua's teachings? He taught of love, compassion, and light for your fellow man, to search within yourself to find the answers. And he was murdered because of what he knew.

This is where my theory begins.

We have all been deceived. Yes, including you. The darkness (Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, or whatever you want to call it) played the biggest con in the history of man. From what I understand of Bible scripture (which is still unreliable because it was written by man, and I won't concede this point), God (or The Source as I like to think of it) created the universe, he created "Heaven" and "Hell" he created man, but he conceded Earth to the darkness in the end. My theory is that Yeshua, Jesus, or whatever you wanted to call him, figured this out early. He wasn't a star born (or son of God, as you choose to coin him), but rather, he learned to see through the ultimate deception: that the darkness is in control of everything in our lives, including the creation of religion. This man knew that there was something wonky going on in our universe, and as a one-man-wrecking crew, decided that it was his mission to try and "wake" everybody up from the deception, the lies. I believe that the darkness was the thing that was speaking to the "prophets" (and maybe even you) and what eventually led to the writing of the Bible, and all other major religious texts in the world. This dark force eventually played up Jesus as the Son of God, when in reality, he was a "glitch" in the programming of our universe. The death of Jesus was a ploy to make the masses get even more entrenched in the dogmas of a false religion. "He died for your sins, and now you owe him." What better way for the darkness to gain control than to use a man who knew too much? The Source, God, Allah, whatever you want to call it, is separated from all of us. The darkness that controls this universe is still in control to this day, and now I believe that many of us are waking up from the deception. Look at the events in the world: Political turmoil, war, economic crisis, death, destruction. It sounds like a desperate attempt by a very scared being to keep the populous of the Earth and the universe under control through fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of judgment, fear of fiery torment....all means of control.

The Source, the center of all knowledge everywhere, is preparing to open that connection up again. This is what I have been feeling, and several others on my own thread. The Source is the true power. This universe is nothing but a deception of a very evil and very jealous entity. All the major religions are a product of this one true evil, and most likely the greatest deception of all time. With your help, I have finally made this final step to put together the pieces of a very big puzzle. There are still a few missing, but I think Jesus (or whatever anybody else wants to call him) was onto this deception, and he paid for it with his life. I don't believe your claim that all occult/esoteric beliefs are products of the darkness, mostly because you haven't been able to prove it without using scripture (which was the original challenge). Jesus knew this hidden knowledge, and he shared it with as many people as possible before he was murdered. Unfortunately, the evil twisted his words and his sayings to make even more trouble for the inhabitants of the universe.

We have all been deceived my friend, and I think we are in for very troubled times indeed.

Thank you for reading my theory, and peace and light be with you.

-truthseeker

reply to post by Melissa101


Well I had a nice long post for you...but it got lost. Guess it wasnt meant to be.

To sum it up....again, we must learn things that we can see first, before we learn things of the Unseen.

Horoscopes are of man yes. But the energy of the stars is of the Spirit, just as all life is of the Spirit. We need to learn the history of man and why man believed what they believed. There is understanding in the ways of man, the ways of Earth. Religion is very much tied to ways of man. Its not a coincidence that Rams were sacrificed in the age of Aries. Its not happenstance that Jesus was called the fisher of man in the age of Pisces. Its not happenstance that man saw importance of the one that carries a pitcher of water for the next coming of age. These are mans understandings of things man can see with the eyes of flesh...we can learn why man believed what they did by looking at history and things of Earth.

There are many paths that man has walked that was very much of Earth and of things that we can see with our eyes of flesh. Its not happenstance that man has gone from seeing God in the sun that gives life to the idea that God is a Unseen Light. Such a process has taken thousands of years. We first learn from the 'seen' and then we can learn of the 'unseen'. We have to know the darkness to discern what is the light. Know what if of flesh is of flesh, so we can know then what is of spirit. Mans past paths were not so much wrong....but needed. We learn through experiences, not being just handed the answers.

Okay Melissa I give up.

After reading your threads I still can't assert one hundred percent that this isn't real and not a fantastically well crafted satire in the Stuart Smalley Stephen Colbert and Pat Paulsen traditions -- creating a persona that is just realistic enough that you have to stop and think "Wait, maybe this isn't a satire."

I've gotten a delightful laugh out of the convoluted pseudo-logic behind your supposed arguments that you keep just silly enough to sort of tweak our collective nose.

So I give up because although you came close, you never slipped up and dropped the mask the way Colbert does sometimes. Nice to see we can laugh at ourselves here on ATS.

Although next time you might want to make things a bit shorter because these sort of things don't carry well it they become too verbose.



[edit on 6-3-2010 by metamagic]

reply to post by LeoVirgo


If you found out tomorrow that mankind has been wrong...would you keep silent? If you discovered that mankind on a massive scale was walking in a path that led farther away from things of Spirit...would you keep this to yourself? Surely not.....

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nope, hence the thread...

Originally posted by truthseeker1984
Melissa,

I've been following your thread quite closely for the past few days, and I don't think you'll find a better intellectual adversary than the people that have challenged your beliefs in the past few days. I consider myself one of them. But I have also been meditating a lot on what you have been writing about. I do not believe the words of the Bible, because they were transcribed by man...whether they were prophets or not. But I'm starting to see a small connection that I did not see before (and this is from years of study in various forms of religion and practice).

The overwhelming theme in ALL religions is about someone that is "full of sin" or bad karma or what have you, worshiping a higher and wiser power than themselves. The common denominator in all religions (except for a few select few) is the concept of an afterlife and judgment. Of course, historically, there have been many that have used this "divine knowledge" to enslave or kill others that did not hold to these standards. "Follow me or suffer in the afterlife" as many have said in years past. Where does that tie into Yeshua's teachings? He taught of love, compassion, and light for your fellow man, to search within yourself to find the answers. And he was murdered because of what he knew.

This is where my theory begins.

We have all been deceived. Yes, including you. The darkness (Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, or whatever you want to call it) played the biggest con in the history of man. From what I understand of Bible scripture (which is still unreliable because it was written by man, and I won't concede this point), God (or The Source as I like to think of it) created the universe, he created "Heaven" and "Hell" he created man, but he conceded Earth to the darkness in the end. My theory is that Yeshua, Jesus, or whatever you wanted to call him, figured this out early. He wasn't a star born (or son of God, as you choose to coin him), but rather, he learned to see through the ultimate deception: that the darkness is in control of everything in our lives, including the creation of religion. This man knew that there was something wonky going on in our universe, and as a one-man-wrecking crew, decided that it was his mission to try and "wake" everybody up from the deception, the lies. I believe that the darkness was the thing that was speaking to the "prophets" (and maybe even you) and what eventually led to the writing of the Bible, and all other major religious texts in the world. This dark force eventually played up Jesus as the Son of God, when in reality, he was a "glitch" in the programming of our universe. The death of Jesus was a ploy to make the masses get even more entrenched in the dogmas of a false religion. "He died for your sins, and now you owe him." What better way for the darkness to gain control than to use a man who knew too much? The Source, God, Allah, whatever you want to call it, is separated from all of us. The darkness that controls this universe is still in control to this day, and now I believe that many of us are waking up from the deception. Look at the events in the world: Political turmoil, war, economic crisis, death, destruction. It sounds like a desperate attempt by a very scared being to keep the populous of the Earth and the universe under control through fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of judgment, fear of fiery torment....all means of control.

The Source, the center of all knowledge everywhere, is preparing to open that connection up again. This is what I have been feeling, and several others on my own thread. The Source is the true power. This universe is nothing but a deception of a very evil and very jealous entity. All the major religions are a product of this one true evil, and most likely the greatest deception of all time. With your help, I have finally made this final step to put together the pieces of a very big puzzle. There are still a few missing, but I think Jesus (or whatever anybody else wants to call him) was onto this deception, and he paid for it with his life. I don't believe your claim that all occult/esoteric beliefs are products of the darkness, mostly because you haven't been able to prove it without using scripture (which was the original challenge). Jesus knew this hidden knowledge, and he shared it with as many people as possible before he was murdered. Unfortunately, the evil twisted his words and his sayings to make even more trouble for the inhabitants of the universe.

We have all been deceived my friend, and I think we are in for very troubled times indeed.

Thank you for reading my theory, and peace and light be with you.

-truthseeker

I am not sure where to start. I am pleased that someone got something out of this thread. I think your theory is interesting, but I need to ask if I understand; you think God as we know him is ultimatly evil and turned his back on man kind? I am not sure of that is what you are saying so please clarify. So if you have been meditating, to who or what do you think you recieve answers from? If not God, then what is the driving force IYO? How do you suppose Jesus figured these things out especialy in a time that lacked technology? Are you thinking that alien beings enlightened him?
What would be the motivation behind God our creator in decieving us? What would be the point? And yes I know I have not been able to prove my beliefs without scripture which is what I stated at the begining, I nor anyone else could prove these things without in a secular way that would be deemed accetable to the secular world. I also agree that many are waking up, I bleieve we are living in the time of Revelation; hence why the Book of Revelations is called such. I appreciate you sharring your theory with me and I would like for you to answer my questions so not for me to attack or judge but to learn and understand. We are in for a rocky road, If I fear anything it is for the well being and the souls of others, I fear not for myself I assure you but it breaks my heart what man kind is going to be facing God bless us every one us all I can say. I look dorward to hearing your response. A few folks have sharred their thoughts without hate or anger and I appreciate the ability to converse on an intelectual level without the anger, I feel it much more productive and condusive to our learning experience, so in short thanks man...

reply to post by Melissa101


You're welcome Melissa. I know the struggles of trying to get something across.

but I need to ask if I understand; you think God as we know him is ultimatly evil and turned his back on man kind? I am not sure of that is what you are saying so please clarify.

No I don't think The Source, or God, or Allah, or whatever you want to call it is evil. I think there was some greater conflict than our small monkey brains can even comprehend. I am starting to think of it as a 'take by force' situation where this Darkness took control and created what we know as the universe. The true Source, where all the knowledge, the light, and the love of the universe, planes, etc., was (IMO) beaten into submission, and this reality was forcefully taken from it. I think the true Source is a very benevolent thing, and it's the source of all knowledge and where we really belong.

So if you have been meditating, to who or what do you think you receive answers from? If not God, then what is the driving force IYO?

For the answer to that question, you have to understand where I'm coming from. Without starting a whole new thread on the topic, I believe that my "soul" isn't part of the rest of the pool as it were. There are others out there that are exactly like me, and I'm beginning to actively seek them out. When I meditate, I meditate internally, for I believe that the answers to all of our questions lie dormant within us all as part of a collective unconscious, including the other beings out there in the universe. I inherently can recognize who and what I am meditating to, and have learned to avoid the darker ones. But you also have to realize that we are all trapped here, for lack of better words; this is a prison created by a very evil thing. The Source is the light and love and harmony that we all strive for as spiritual beings. That is where we truly came from (at least our "souls").

How do you suppose Jesus figured these things out especially in a time that lacked technology? Are you thinking that alien beings enlightened him?

I think he figured them out in the same way that I'm figuring them out: questioning what you know and learning to listen within. Wasn't it him that taught men to fish so that they wouldn't go hungry? I interpret that as relying on yourself instead of someone else doing something for you: including a higher deity.

Technology, just like your eyes, will deceive you. Don't trust it/them. Aristotle didn't need technology to come up with his theories and philosophies. Jesus didn't need such things, as all he had to do was look within for the answers....the code is already written in there, we just have to learn how to access it. The knowledge that he learned of the falsity of this reality was what ultimately led to his demise. In a way, he did die to make men free....free of mind and spirit....free to question the lies that have been in place for eons.

Did aliens give him this information? I don't know. He could very well have been divinely inspired from some alien being, but I think he just learned to look within himself for the answers.

What would be the motivation behind God our creator in decieving us? What would be the point?

Refer to the answer to your first question.


I think I have answered what you were asking....if you have any more questions, please let me know.

I'm doing nothing but trying to wake people up to what is going on around us, if for anything else but to be prepared when the time comes for The Creator to finally take what was his back.


Peace be with you.


-truthseeker