A Very Simple Question- Go ahead, Try To Answer

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Well then, how about this: I am SICK of the lies. So sick of them that there is rage. People elected that SOB to end this war, plain and simple. And now you see the results in the polls. He is sucking bad.

Tell me, what is the fricken point of electing ANYONE? They're all going to lie. I knew that of course, as I've been around here and elsewhere for years. Give me one good damn reason not to be a total anarchist, ready for revolution to take this country back from these lowlifes.

You mean his campaign promise to withdraw all troops from Iraq by 2011?

www.washingtonpost.com...

In 2007 before the Primaries started Obama promised a more sooner withdrawal but by the beginning of 2008 he changed his tone and stated his intentions to withdraw troops from 2011. Ever since then he has stayed on the same committment. The fact is, Obama changed his campaign promise before the elections and people knew well in advance his intentions before electing him.

Looking back to 2007 to point to how he changed his mind is pathetic really. It was a change in campaign promise before the elections even started. I ask you to find a 2008 video where Obama promises to withdraw troops before 2010.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Okay I would like to offer some peace.

Every politician will make you want to believe that everything can be a done deal with the drop of a hat. This is never the case and will never come into full view on a campaign trail. That does make him sort of a liar just like any other politician, but the people do not want hard matter and the truth. They want sound bites and a feeling that everything will be okay. Some people have been alive long enough to know this and politicians and government act accordingly.

Does not make anything right, but removes the black, white sketch and gives a more grey realism.

People in power are more or less in almost every instance. Manipulative, calculating, sly and with a bit of luck charismatic.
They also require an ego, have to cope with a lot of stress and always have to witness their best intentions be destroyed right in front of their eyes. I do not find it odd that these people in such positions become power hungry, neurotic, psychotic and disorderly over time.

These going ons should not shock or anger anyone.

Yes it is shocking from a sanity based on integrity point of view, but these things are lost very very easily in the face of overwhelming corruption of the human heart.

Yes being upset does not help anyone especially yourself.

Yes we could be talking all day long and get as many people to agree that Barrack Obama is a liar. Just like every human by the way.

Their are only a few questions you can ask yourself.

Can I accept the reality without losing my mind?
Do I want to do anything about it?
What can I do about it?
What am I going to do about it?
If I choose to not do anything about it how can I come to terms with myself and live a happy conscious live?

The president also needs to ask these questions to himself every single day.

Do you want to be a good citizen then do not make yourself dependent on others and help everywhere you can to increase joy and happiness. I think in a meaningful sense you could be called a patriot even if you are an anarchistic revolutionary.

[edit on 5-3-2010 by GamleGamle]

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
A very simple question. Go ahead, Try to Answer

Why didn't Obama end the war?

You mean yet? right? Why hasn't Obama ended the war YET?

What he said was ...

"I will work with military commanders on the ground in Iraq and in consultation with the Iraqi government to end the war safely and responsibly within 16 months."

What does safely and responsibly mean?
Well he has also said..
"the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability. That assessment has not changed,"

The current plan as I understand it..

Withdraw most U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of August 2010,
With a goal that all troops will be out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.

You do realize that logisticaly you can not simply pull out in a week?

We have taken years to accumulate troops and equipment there.

You must also realize that a gradual draw-down of forces and a transition to Iraqi authority is neccessary for the safety of both Iraqis and American soldiers?

THAT IS NOT MY OPINION...but the opinion of every General, Military Advisor or other human being with the slightest amount of brain matter.

So what exactly arre you asking...or implying?

Or is the point of this thread just to provoke people with simplistic misrepresentations of the truth? I thought we were trying to stop that kind of thing on ATS?

[edit on 5-3-2010 by maybereal11]

reply to post by Blue Shift

Obama didn't end the war because there's no money in it. It doesn't create jobs or generate more taxes. It actually creates more unemployment and increases the number of people on welfare.

Those are pretty good reasons to keep a war going. Forever.

No they are not. Ever bullet that exits a barrel and every bomb that explodes is as big a waste of money as fireworks on the 4th of July. So is paying for all those overseas bases. Every vet that returns as a severe medical case is a tragedy.

We have plenty of projects that need attention (read: money) here at home.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Well then, how about this: I am SICK of the lies. So sick of them that there is rage. People elected that SOB to end this war, plain and simple. And now you see the results in the polls. He is sucking bad.

Tell me, what is the fricken point of electing ANYONE? They're all going to lie. I knew that of course, as I've been around here and elsewhere for years. Give me one good damn reason not to be a total anarchist, ready for revolution to take this country back from these lowlifes.

Honestly, i can get more behind this line of thinking that simply nitpicking thelies o people that we already know are liars.

Truthfully speaking, the american people ought to boycott any elections from here on out until they are allowed to vote for candidates, and not just the lesser of the evils.

Any way it goes, if you vote in this country, you are voting for a member of the same cabal. That is the only way candidates get that far-they are chosen to.

SO, how about we refuse to vote for ANY of them?

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Good nuance I did not know that.
Reminds me clearly how human ignorance that breeds contentment make people docile and easily influenced by easy to understand, but horribly flawed rhetoric. ( I do not like war and I do like appreciated peace. )

TrueAmerican.

Yes become a anarchistic revolutionary. We all know that you have all the right to, but free yourself from the rage because eventually it will make you weak and tired and miserable. Keep your head cool. Network and find people who have the same ideals as you and work toward your just goals. More then that you can not do.

[edit on 5-3-2010 by GamleGamle]

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Bookmark this thread and get back to me/us at the end of 2011 (which is when he states all troops will be withdrawn from Iraq) then we'll chat.

Until then....

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
The fact is, Obama changed his campaign promise before the elections and people knew well in advance his intentions before electing him.

That's it in a nutshell.

Obama's Promises

There are currently about 142,000 U.S. military personnel in Iraq, according to the Defense Department. Under terms of an agreement reached with Iraqi leaders last year, the U.S. must remove troops from Iraqi cities by the end of June and, as the Obama plan reinforces, withdraw its forces altogether by the end of 2011.

This promise is "In the Works". We can't say yet whether it's going to happen or not. But it's not a "broken promise". Give it time.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
...whining about it ad nauseum changes nothing.

Apparently, neither does voting for "change".

Seems to me that the first thing Obama did do was prove that.

It is accurate to say that no elected official keeps their campaign promises. Obama though, seems to fixated on actions that are in direct contrast with his promises, rather than just ignoring them.

What's worse? Ignoring a campaign promise, or doing the opposite of what you promised?

"End the war" becomes "send more troops".
"fix the economy" becomes "sink it deeper, when it stops, dig a deeper hole".
"stand up for the regular joe" becomes "bail out the bankers".
"empower the people" becomes "appoint myself CEO of the American auto industry".

Make no mistake, we'd all have the exact same gripes had it been McCain who had been elected. Nothings going to change until We the People realize that the problem isn't the people we elect, the problem is us. The only reason an unqualified, arguably ineligible man is running this country, is because we hired him. When people quit voting one way because their best friend's cousin's had a teacher who's former room mate said it was the way to vote, things will start to change. People have to stop voting party lines because their parents did. They have to stop voting because the F'ng box in front of their lazy-boy told them to. Realize, that nobody has voted for a politician in quite some time. We've been voting for business people - entrepreneurs who see opportunity in the ignorance and apathy of the American people.

WE are their employers. WE are the ones running things. Somewhere along the lines we forgot that, and lost our will to exercise the power that comes along with American citizenship.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Well then, how about this: I am SICK of the lies. So sick of them that there is rage. People elected that SOB to end this war, plain and simple.

It's certainly your prerogative to be as outraged as you want to be, and to call him names, etc. (It looks like hatred to me, but that's beside the point.) But it's not like YOU elected him and are now disappointed because he didn't keep his promises. You never did want him in the White House in the first place. So it's not like he let you down. You're just hoping to get people to rag on him.

Many of us who DID vote him in are not disappointed. I am very happy with his overall performance. He's not perfect and there are certainly some things he has done that I really don't like. But overall, I think he's doing a pretty good job and I'm looking forward to seeing what he is able to accomplish during his presidency.

We shall see.

reply to post by Southern Guardian



What amuses me about Obama is not that he changed the date for withdrawal. That's almost understandable. What is pathetic is his horrible sense of judgement.

This makes me laugh, for the sake of not crying:



Can't hardly defend that...

I won't even add the part where Joe Biden said that Iraq would be seen as 'one of this administration's greatest achievements'. How he can lie so straightfaced tells me that he has lost touch with reality.:shk:

oh my goddd...

HE IS ENDING IT!! HIM AND ALL THE TOP GENERAL AND DEFENSE MINISTRIES FROM OTHER COUNRTIES REVIEWED AN EXIT STRATEGY AND THEY CAME UP WITH A 2 YEAR WITHDRAWL PLAN

ALL US TROOPS ARE ON STAND BY IN IRAQ!!




Although, they could be idling for the soon to be Iran conflict.

Originally posted by mishigas
What amuses me about Obama is not that he changed the date for withdrawal.

Obama held the campaign promise of withdrawing all troop out of Iraq by 2011 and has held this campaign promise during the primaries. People knew full well during the primaries his intentions to withdraw then.

What I fail to understand is this smear over the fact of the date he said he'd withdraw. What is the deal with that exactly? So what, all troops will be withdrawn by 2011. Why do you nitpick and bicker about every little detail? Why do you have to go all the way back to 2007 over withdrawal dates?? Are you that desperate to smear the man?

Can't hardly defend that...

That the surge in Iraq war an utter waste? What exactly did the surge do to change anythign in Iraq? We went in there under false reasons, wasted $700 billion thus far, millions of dollars a day, lost over 4,000 troops and to this day Iraq is still in a sorry state. What exactly did the surge do to change this? Please enlighten me here.

Joe Biden said that Iraq would be seen as 'one of this administration's greatest achievements'.

In my eyes withdrawing troops from Iraq would be the greatest achievement and seeing as this will happen under this administration, I'd readily agree with Biden.

UNfortunatly, the lies are about as equal as saying the sky is blue..

No shock here, move along, nothing to see..

Sadly, most believe the campaign BS as truth, and then sit in shock 'n' awe at the fact the candidates now elect, does a 180, and you finally see the Dollar signs holding up that tiny halo.

I'm not simply speaking of the Commander and Chief, but of anyone in a place of the three branches of Government.

Reapeat after me, please.. "Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors".. Repeat as necessary.

Peace,

lets be realistic.

Its only been a year.

Obama is a politician...not a god. (regardless of claims from Limbaugh)

Honestly...what did you expect?

[edit on 5-3-2010 by Snarf]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It's certainly your prerogative to be as outraged as you want to be, and to call him names, etc. (It looks like hatred to me, but that's beside the point.) But it's not like YOU elected him and are now disappointed because he didn't keep his promises. You never did want him in the White House in the first place. So it's not like he let you down. You're just hoping to get people to rag on him.

That pretty much sums up all the outrage. We have people complaining about withdrawal dates, most of whom I'd bet my bottom dollar supported the Iraq war in the first place and opposed any kind of withdrawal back then. We have some conservatives complaining that Obama broke promises, promises that they for the part opposed and smeared in the first place.

Its just astounding.

reply to post by Unit541


Some of the most shameful lies that Obama told during the campaign were the ones where he convinced America that he would change the way business was done in Washington.

Things like no lobbyists on his staff. What is the latest count? Something like 25 or so?

Things like no earmarks. Then he signs an Omnibus bill with over 8,500 earmarks.

Playing the same old money games with the same gang of crooks. Real change you can believe in.

He has no moral fibre, no backbone.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

What I fail to understand is this smear over the fact of the date he said he'd withdraw. What is the deal with that exactly? So what, all troops will be withdrawn by 2011. Why do you nitpick and bicker about every little detail? Why do you have to go all the way back to 2007 over withdrawal dates?? Are you that desperate to smear the man?

Hey palsy-walsy, you better get your facts straight. I said nothing about dates, now did I?

Is that your modus operandi?

Now if you'd like to address his piss-poor judgement re the surge that I pointed out, then fine. Otherwise don't play your games with me.

reply to post by mishigas

He has no moral fibre, no backbone.

He...is...a...politician.

Why is everyone acting like this is such a big surprise?

EVERY President before him has tricked the idiot masses into voting him into office.

Name 1 president who lived up to every single one of his campaign promises.

Hell, name 1 president who lived up to a MAJORITY of his campaign promises.

It doesn't happen. It's not in their pedigree. Yet every 4 years, like clockwork, we get a bunch of "sophisticated" intellectuals who think they're rediscovering the wheel by pointing out hypocrisy in politics.

I think that's the real issue right there. I've owned gold fish with better short term memories.