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The Two Santa Claus Theory and the Republican Party

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posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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The Two Santa Claus Theory




Jude Thaddeus Wanniski (June 17, 1936, Pottsville, Pennsylvania – August 29, 2005, Morristown, New Jersey) was an American journalist, conservative commentator, and political economist. He is perhaps best known as the associate editor of The Wall Street Journal from 1972 to 1978. In 1976 Wanniski coined the term supply-side economics to distinguish the revival in classical economic thought from the more dominant "demand-side" Keynesian and monetarist theories.


He was an adviser to Ronald Reagan from 1978 to 1981, and designed the Reagan tax cuts during his first term in office.


The Two Santa Claus Theory is a political theory and strategy developed by Jude Wanniski in 1976, which he promoted within the U.S. Republican Party.[7] The theory states that, in democratic elections, if one party appeals to voters by proposing more spending, then a competing party cannot gain broader appeal by proposing less spending.



The "Santa Claus" of the theory title refers to the political party that promises spending.

Instead, "Two Santa Claus Theory" recommends that the competing party must assume the role of a second Santa Claus by offering other appealing options. This theory is a response to the belief of monetarists, and especially Milton Friedman, that the government must be starved of revenue in order to control the growth of spending (since, in the view of the monetarists, spending cannot be reduced by elected bodies as the political pressure to spend is too great).


en.wikipedia.org...

Well there you have it. An explanations on WHY the Republican party spends like drunken sailors then screams about the deficits when they lose power.

They try to have it both ways.....it's all about getting that power back. It has happened since Reagan and to me it makes sense that it could absolutely be true.
They screamed about the deficit when Clinton came into office...yet spent like asshats as soon as he left.

Now that they are out of office...it's OH NOES...the deficit is crazy! (Which it is...but that is besides the point, THEY CREATED IT).

Look at the last 30 years since Reagan first came into office. Every single Republican President has spent like a madman...INCREASING the size of government. They've cut taxes for the filthy rich/corporate power and gotten us into wars that WE WEREN'T PAYING FOR.

Then as soon as they are out office...they scream about the deficit and pretend to be deficit hawks. We don't have money to help peoplle in this country they say!!!





Wanniski explained in a memo in 1999, "We of course should be indebted to Art Laffer for all time for his Curve.... But as the primary political theoretician of the supply-side camp, I began arguing the 'Two Santa Claus Theory' in 1974. If the Democrats are going to play Santa Claus by promoting more spending, the Republicans can never beat them by promoting less spending. They have to promise tax cuts in order to grow the economy -- not to 'starve the government of revenue,' which is Milton Friedman's rationale."



www.economicprincipals.com...

THERE YOU HAVE IT.

SPEND AND CONDEMN...RINSE AND REPEAT...it's the Republican way.

The Republican party has controlled this country for the last 30 years BECAUSE of it's spending...not because of balanced budgets and small government...that IS A LIE!








[edit on 5-3-2010 by David9176]

[edit on 5-3-2010 by David9176]




posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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Ronald Reagan created the anti-government anger. He ran on it...then spent like a mofo and cut taxes on the wealthy. He created a 3 trillion dollar deficit...which continued under George Bush Sr....who then raised taxes which caused him to lose the election. (he came to his senses and he paid for it is my only guess)

Clinton played their game. He balanced the budget. He wasn't a real Democrat. The same that happened to him is happening to Obama right now as GB jr. blew our deficit out of the water with WARS and SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT WE DID NOT PAY FOR. TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH...TAX CUTS FOR CORPORATIONS... NONE OF IT PAYED FOR.

The Republican party has controlled this country since Reagan and it will continue to.

Obama hasn't been playing to their plans as of yet as he still proposes more spending...which in turn increases their argument of the deficit.

They don't want the Democratic Party to help people...they want to do it. That's why it's NO NO NO all the time....but when they are in control...it's spend spend spend!!!! WE HAVE PLENTY OF CASH!!!

They have also, successfully I might add, turned the citizens of this country against each other....the same people you get up to work with. Your friends...your family...the people you care about and the strangers you will never meet.

Could it be possible that ALL of our problems are the source of ONE MAN???

OPINIONS? Look of info on this man if you don't trust the links.

JUDE WANNINSKI

[edit on 5-3-2010 by David9176]


This is new information to me...so if anyone has any other info please share!!!!

BTW....I understand that we have to curb our deficit. We are in dire trouble as a country and I am NOT a fan of Obama....but I do understand the complete disaster he was left with.

[edit on 5-3-2010 by David9176]



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 03:47 PM
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No comments?

Am I going against the grain to much?

Research this and question what you believe.

Question what you have been told and look for what is TRUE regardless of what you want to be true.

To me this entire theory explains quite a bit. I'm a guy who has posted countless glen beck threads supporting his views...i've trashed Obama just as much as anyone else on ATS. After the birth of my child, it changed my way of thinking and made me look at the world differently.

Don't cheat yourself.

Question what you believe.

[edit on 5-3-2010 by David9176]



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 03:49 PM
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The Republicans have proven themselves to be the party of hypocrites yet folks here still continue to turn the other side. Anybody who still supports the Republican party, who considers themselves conservative, is voting against their values. There is absolutely no excuse. Theres always this excuse when asked about the actions of the Republican party over the years... this excuse that somehow 'this candidate will be new and different' when the same policies, same actions from the Republican party continue.

As if the Democrats are a good alternative though right? They had the filibuster proof majority and could not get a decent healthcare bill through. The Republican presidents, Republican politicians could not have done what they did over the years over spending, over policies without Democratic support. Truth is while Reagan and his Republicans spent like heck while toutin' fiscal conservatism, Democrats held the house majority and needed to give support. Under Clinton both parties needed one another to get the bills through. Under the Bush administration the Republicans got some Democratic support for tax cuts, they got some Democratic support for their $1 trillion military increase over 8 years, the Dems helped pass a whopping $3 billion to aid for Israel.

Both parties have become a cancer to this nation. There is no denying there are many good Republican and Democratic politicians... but overall both parties have proven they cannot represent their constituents. Its time for both conservatives and Liberals to rally their own third parties. We may not agree on ideology, but by the least we agree that both parties have failed us and its time for them to be voted out.



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 





The Republicans have proven themselves to be the party of hypocrites yet folks here still continue to turn the other side.


That's what I don't understand. It's been one year after Bush left..3 years since they lost their butts in the House and Senate....and now look.

People are flocking to them like they are our freakin saviors.




Its time for both conservatives and Liberals to rally their own third parties. We may not agree on ideology, but by the least we agree that both parties have failed us and its time for them to be voted out.


I couldn't agree more SG. What is the point of arguing amongst ourselves if it truly does not matter?

As you stated, their are some good Republicans and Democrats on both sides. I believe so. Also, I cannot claim to be someone who believes that any ideology is the way to go as none is perfect.

A few years ago I had a completely different view of the world and our country. When I look back at what I used to believe....especially in my old threads...I cannot believe how much my line of thinking has changed.

Thanks for replying SG...as no one else will.

Have you heard of this theory or this man before?



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
Have you heard of this theory or this man before?


It is rather knew to me, the name of the theory, but it is something that I can readily agree with. The Republican uses the same talking points but has no intention of carrying them out as proven by their actions over the years.

It doesnt help that voters in this nation have short memories though.



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by David9176
 


Good thread, you really point out what an illusion the 2 party system is.

I didn't know Wanninski was involved in the Regan administration or that he created the "Two Santas" political model.

I'm more familiar with his more recent work, where he opposed the war with Iraq up until his death. I hope it shows he had a change of heart later in life and maybe he was trying to make up for the errors of his youth.



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 04:13 PM
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I heard of it years ago and have watched it being played out over the past 30 years. Its ugly short term thinking and selfish and what is wrong for the most part with Washington today.

The whole push to deify Reagan makes me want to throw up. He and his owners brought on this whole nasty cycle we are living through...if not him personally then the vultures and fools he inspired.

Personally as it stands right now I wouldn't vote Republican for pooper scooper.

And the Democrats aren't much better.



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 





Truth is while Reagan and his Republicans spent like heck while toutin' fiscal conservatism, Democrats held the house majority and needed to give support. Under Clinton both parties needed one another to get the bills through. Under the Bush administration the Republicans got some Democratic support for tax cuts, they got some Democratic support for their $1 trillion military increase over 8 years, the Dems helped pass a whopping $3 billion to aid for Israel.


You know why though. Conservative-Democrats, the so called blue-dogs, were bought by big money and they ARE the Reagan Democrats. The Democratic party has been close to useless IMO for a very long time. That is why a 60 seat super majority can't get any legitimate legislation done.

SG....the rich continue to get richer...the poorer continue to get poorer...the middle class is disappearing....and for what?

The rest of us, the working class, are by far the LARGEST MAJORITY in this country. We need to work together and taken down what hurts us all. Government CAN be good if those who run it are good.

I'm not anti-government. I am for GOOD government....as you are.



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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Unfortunately neither party is willing to increase taxes or cut spending, so this problem is not going anywhere anytime soon. We'll reach the point where there's nothing we can do to improve this situation because most of our money will go to paying interest on the national debt.

You can't spend money you don't have and not expect to have to deal with it at some point. As of right now that amount is $107,658,552,941,800 in unfunded liabilities. And that number is increasing every second. That's $348,753 per citizen.

Yeah........not good....



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 





I'm more familiar with his more recent work, where he opposed the war with Iraq up until his death. I hope it shows he had a change of heart later in life and maybe he was trying to make up for the errors of his youth.


Yeah I read that and have been looking for more info on the guy. You may be right...he could have changed his ways.

This whole theory dumbfounded me though as it just FITS. It make sense.



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by Mountain Maize
 


Right. We are in a huge amount of trouble. IMO...we have to raise taxes on the top 1 percent (approx) and increase tariffs on our imports to try and fix our trade deficits....and we HAVE to end the war before it bankrupts us to the point of no return.

Yes it will raise prices and most everything...as everything we buy isn't made here..

But what better alternative is there? Prices will go up anyway with the weakening of the dollar if we don't fix this.



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by David9176
 


I agree with you. At first, proposing an increase on the top one percent sounds "socialist", and people will point to the Laffer curve, which says that by lowering taxes, tax revenue will actually go up because income will go up for taxpayers.

I think that we've passed the top of the curve. I'm not saying that we should go back to 70% rates, but tax cuts for the rich don't really do much after a certain point.

en.wikipedia.org...

As far as trade goes, i agree with you about the import tariffs. It's a lot easier to buy things from China than it is to sell something to China, even if you completely ignore the price of goods. We should hold them to standards closer to the standards they hold us to.



[edit on 5-3-2010 by Mountain Maize]



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 10:47 PM
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This thread is so popular, what a bastion of diverse, intellectual banter


Whats to say really?

I have been politically active for about ten years, never before in my life have I seen such a destructive force as this modern mainstream conservative movement. I honestly think the GOP has crafted the ultimate manipulation machine, which uses base emotions as a tool for support = fear. I do not disapprove of all conservative ideas, I do however disapprove of the rhetoric and what this rhetoric does to perfectly able minds, not to mention division based upon oppertunism.

9/11 was the kicker for me; using the bully pulpit the GOP base made thinking twice about WAR, a symbol of weakness, love for terrorists, hate for America and her ideals... It happened and it was disgusting! Chicken sh$# Dems politicians did NOT have the guts to put the breaks on the race to war. Yet it seems that nobody cares to remember who did the leg work and which portion of society gave the vital support... how much has it costed folks??? Not my commie induced ideological expense mind you

So did the people questioning the war have a point?

or did they heart OBL?

Really, besides bullying people to get what they wanted, WTF was that?
Being conscience of the consiquences around war equates a lack of patriotism,
questioning authority is not good. VERY ironic due to the neocons talk round these parts.

Same can be said with the financial collapse, nobody cares to SEE the link between

"LET THE PRODUCERS PRODUCE" TM. rand, ronny, etc...

And

dropping restrictions that would let the market create more revenue creating avenues,
create more capital and thusly more employment...

ala what everyone here goes on about,

"stay out of business's way, COMMIE"...

Tax cuts for the Billionaires
how did that trickle down the cash
?


Anyhow RR and his brand are the link IMO

We cannot be realistic in discussion anymore. EVERYTHING has to be have a VILAN, extreme and so mellow dramatic, people who think healthcare is a catastrophe waiting to happen are SOCIALISTS -


"WHY YES PUTZ, and the people who did not want to go to IRAQ LOVED TERRORISTS"



The cycle continues

Unfortunately liberals do not have the ability to get in the big group think that gives the GOP victory after victory, or resurgence after just overseeing the most crocked private looting ever.
Liberals, believe or not do not like BS no matter who does it, hence a growing distrust for Obamas socialist agenda, guess what....


WE ARE TALKING A MESS - WHILE HE IS STILL IN OFFICE

Modern liberals are like cats, everyone has a different benchmark, micro agenda and
ideas of what is progress.

Conservatives have been taught to seek static and passive remedies... One line to hold,
very goal oriented and imaginative.

I know ATS had plenty of people defending Bush, same who bash Obama, same who are reformed...


guess what?

I do very little Obama defense these days, even though it may hurt
the prospects of my general political outlook, wrong is wrong. The conservative doctrine I have seen here is STFU if the guys is on your TEAM.

FOX for that matter, same deal, if it is damaging, IGNORE and redirect by proposing
distractions.

OBAMA IS A MUSLIM
SOCIALIST
KENYAN

you see I don't say it to say it, but THAT is the redirecting. Your attention has been diverted to ideas that mirror TV shows and stories.

Glenn Beck = method actor + elite newsman

NOT

Glenn Beck = fantastic man to base your entire outlook upon


The kicker is the collapse had its basis in conservative ideas, less regulation, less restriction, more FREEDOM, wealth creation, etc... And so far no new ideas, no reevaluation of these long held Ronny ideas and we are worse for it.

I DO greatly appreciate the conservatives who have a pair and think for themselves

pardon the diatribe


HO HO HO

[edit on 5-3-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 6-3-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 6-3-2010 by Janky Red]



posted on Mar, 6 2010 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by Mountain Maize
 





I agree with you. At first, proposing an increase on the top one percent sounds "socialist", and people will point to the Laffer curve, which says that by lowering taxes, tax revenue will actually go up because income will go up for taxpayers. I think that we've passed the top of the curve. I'm not saying that we should go back to 70% rates, but tax cuts for the rich don't really do much after a certain point.


I absolutely agree.


The attention to this thread is AMAZING. While I don't expect people to agree with my posts....the actual evidence cannot be disputed when it comes to the Santa Claus Theory.

The man who created this theory WAS IN THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION!!! It defines the Republican party of the last 30 years.



posted on Mar, 6 2010 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by David9176
 


I don't think all of the blame can be placed on the Reagan administration or on Reagan himself. In his first two years in office he pulled pretty hard for a balanced budget amendment to the constitution. After that however, he spent like crazy.

As far as taxes go, it's really secondary. You wouldn't need high taxes on anyone if you massively cut spending.

I used to subscribe to the "starve the beast" theory that if you cut taxes all around, then the government would be forced to shrink because much less money would be coming in. However, if you have a government like we have today that is not concerned with deficits at all, then "the beast" can't really be starved.

The only way that government can be reduced, and it definitely needs to be, is to elect individuals who are truly committed to reducing their own power and putting it back in the hands of the states. However, it's been quite a long time since anyone in government has really been commited to doing that.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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Congratulations to the Republican Party.

It's working beautifully. Run up massive deficits through war and tax cuts without every accounting for them, the handouts were everywhere.

But not now....oh no. Now they have to be the saviors for what they have created and fought to increase a debt ceiling increase for debts they already accrued....and they plan on paying for it on the backs of the elderly and poor.

Some heroes they are. Great to see the Democrats playing along...just like what happened during Clinton's administration.





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