Debunk this 9/11 conspiracy fact and I quit ATS - WTC7: perpetual motion scam and the easy physics, page 1

I find it difficult to find solid posts or threads on 9/11 which cannot be attacked and highjacked easily by the usual tactics of 9/11 specific debunking, derailing or using irrelevant arguments. I welcome debunkers and skeptics (can be quite a UFO skeptic myself ) but in many cases it's 'pick at straws and not answer or debunk the question or data' when 9/11 is in the spotlight. After reading the most recent 9/11 physics thread, with a general lack of physics equations, I figured I'll do a proper, easy to comprehend physics thread. I have been penning this for months in various forms but figured I'll cut straight to the chase instead.

I write this thread to hopefully provide an easy reference or method of writing a question to absolutely shatter debunkers of 9/11 truth once and for all - for to debunk this one, you need to debunk the very framework of the physical reality that surrounds us. I am not the first person to use this data methodology and many 9/11 official story doubters will understand this already.

World trade centre building 7 (WTC7);
WTC7 was a 47 story building owned by Larry Silverstien, occupied by various letter agencies and ENRON investigative records, which on september 11th 2001, fell at NIST admitted freefall. You can measure and confirm this for yourself off videos available. Free fall is a word used to commonly describe acceleration at gravitational constant, normally an average figure of 9.8ms-2. Nist admitted at least 2.2 second free fall occured, other data sources confirm most of the collapse sequence was freefall, a much larger figure than 2.2 seconds.
However to keep this official and simple, we'll use NISTs own 2.2 seconds. We have 9.8ms-2*2.2seconds which equals 23.716 meters of fall (d = 1/2 * g * (t^2)). In a bottom up collapse this translates to over 5 floors with 4 meters per floor height given. Over 5 floors, hundreds of steel columns, hundreds of desks, chairs, computers, cabinets, files, hundreds of tonnes of rebar concrete floor and other construction material, provided no resistance to the falling mass and were crushed in less time than it takes to read this italicised text!

A free fall collapse violates the law of conservation of energy, which states that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, merely changed from one form to another. To collapse at freefall you are using all the gravitational potential energy (potential energy from being raised above the earth in this reference) to accelerate downwards, leaving no energy left to bottom-up crush and pulverise 47 floors of rebar concrete and hundreds of interlinked steel columns supporting the structure.

To debunk this you need to do at least one of three things:
A) Show where the energy came from to simultaneously destroy each floor one after another, during the collapse sequence of the entire structure - it could not come from the falling mass without violating the law of conservation of energy. Diesel fuel, exploding UPS batteries, LPG cylinders and swamp gas do not pulverise entire floors and 47 story buildings of concrete and steel.
B) Prove that the resistance of the structure is zero. If so, how did it ever stand in the first place and/or what caused simultaneous zero resistance across the entire structure, floor by floor.
C) Debunk the law of conservation of energy.

It appears that WTC7 was a free energy or perpetual motion device when examining NISTs own data and findings.

edit for trimmed subject and epic 4am calculation fail.


[edit on 5/3/10 by GhostR1der]

Originally posted by Signals
Doesn't the extra energy come from the big planes smashing into the other buildings, causing their collapse, and debris & fire spray onto #7, sort of like trickle-down economics works

Causing a complete and symmetrical collapse? No, NIST's explanation is just plain impossible. There might have been an asymmetric/partial collapse from damage to one side.

"This is seventh grade physics." -- Richard Gage

[edit on 5-3-2010 by Crito]

Originally posted by GhostR1der
A free fall collapse violates the law of conservation of energy

If you can be convinced that somehow the laws of physics were violated that day then presumably you'll believe anything, including weird conspiracy theories. If you're unable to understand physics you probably don't have a solid foundation to respond to any kind of "debunking". Good luck.

And the straw man arguments begin...

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by GhostR1der
A free fall collapse violates the law of conservation of energy

If you can be convinced that somehow the laws of physics were violated that day then presumably you'll believe anything, including weird conspiracy theories. If you're unable to understand physics you probably don't have a solid foundation to respond to any kind of "debunking". Good luck.

Best of luck using ad hominem arguments to discredit the 9/11 scientific truth movement. Crazy al-Qaeda conspiracy theories just don't hold up to close scrutiny. That's why the public will never hear a word from the supposed terrorists and masterminds who had confessions tortured out of them.






[edit on 5-3-2010 by Crito]

reply to post by MysterE

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Can't believe I did that dudu after proofing it many a time. This is why I should turn the computer off prior to 4am >_< to avoid mixing d=v*t and d = 1/2 * g * (t^2). Still turns out at over 5 floors (I was a filing cabinet out for being a dudu), plus it still violates the law of conservation of energy. Facts still stand!

reply to post by GhostR1der

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Your totally right, felt kind of stupid when my results yielded approximatly the same answer!

Great thread!

-E-

reply to post by GhostR1der

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I'd like to chime in on this, if I may --- and it's not my field of expertise, but WTC 7 is the "Belle of the Ball" lately, it seems, so I'm interested, and trying to remain neutral.


en.wikipedia.org...

At 5:20:33 p.m. EDT on September 11, 2001, 7 World Trade Center started to collapse, with the crumble of the east mechanical penthouse, while at 5:21:10 p.m. EDT the entire building collapsed completely

Now, we have all seen the iconic video, ad infinitum....and that is where the cries of "free fall" mostly derive, I think.

But, looking at that Wiki entry, I count the entire collapse sequence at 37 seconds. That would be ALLl the way down, every last bit, to the street.

In that video, we can't see the entire building, down to street level.

Ideas?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

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Thank you for describing the position that believers of the OS find themselves in. Funny isn't it?

But even if you ignore the logic of physics, you can always follow the money. Contributors to ex-president Bush's campaign have made HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some of them have become MILLIONAIRES A THOUSAND TIMES OVER. Yet none of the supposed 911 hijackers was from Iraq or Afghanistan.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

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Thank you for describing the position that believers of the OS find themselves in. Funny isn't it?

But even if you ignore the logic of physics, you can always follow the money. Contributors to ex-president Bush's campaign have made HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some of them have become MILLIONAIRES A THOUSAND TIMES OVER. Yet none of the supposed 911 hijackers was from Iraq or Afghanistan.

The laws of physics were extremely solid on 911 as they are every day. Sure, we could "follow the money" if we want to take our eyes off the ball and distract people towards whatever alternate theory you're pointing to. We could also follow the path of the planes and the radical goons that hijacked them, although that were make your conspiracy notions rather pointless.

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