What has happened to our society? Is EVIL growing?

reply to post by Trams


Thank you my young friend...keep searching

Originally posted by Trams
... Just some observations from a 17 year old's perspective.

What are your thoughts here? see image



more: www.tldm.org...

I have thought about this in length and have formed what tends to be a very unpopular answer. I believe that a lot of what we are seeing is due to the trend towards 2 working parents and no one at home. And for the record, I'm pro-parent at home, and I don't care if it's mom or dad. But hear me out.

When I was a child in the early 70's most moms stayed home. If I was a mile from home, there was a mom there. If I did something I wasn't supposed to, my mom knew about before I got home. In our area we also had some program, I don't remember the name of it, but a blue hand print was the logo. Parents of school age children had these signs with a blue hand print on it that they would put in a front window. Any child knew that if there was trouble, those were "safe" houses with an adult that could help.

I'm a stay at home mom now, and I'm the only one in the neighborhood. I don't know any of the other parents on my street, much less two streets over. I know there's no one else looking out for kids and that curtails where I'll allow my children to go.

Also without a parent or grandparent at home, kids are being raised by minimum wage workers who are doing their best, but *your* values are not instilled in a child that you don't raise. Too many parents, burdened by guilt, give in to little Tommy, spoil little Tommy, and take Tommy's side if a teacher or other authority figure would dare to say he did something wrong.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Mountainmeg]

Originally posted by OldThinker

Since prayer was removed from public school classrooms in 1962, we have had a six-fold increase in violent crime, our divorce rate has tripled, births to single mothers have increased five-fold, the teenage suicide rate has tripled, and SAT scores (standardized college entrance test) have dropped 80 points (approximately 10%). The removal of prayer may not be the only cause of social ills, but the negative trends are certainly a symptom of the spiritual decline which is at their root.

more: www.thewordout.net...

Is this relevant here?

OT

Though prayer was removed because of Atheist Madelaine O'Hare (right?); it still was WRONG! The PUBLIC schools gave ONLY the Protestant Lord's Prayer - thereby FORCING Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Muslims and everybody who was NOT a Protestant to heresy. Further, it DID violate the constitution because the government was setting up ONE religion as their own (Theocracy).

Now imagine the same time period; but, being FORCED to face Mecca everyday at certain hours in school and being FORCED to pray to a warlord who married a 9 year old and who called himself a prophet and demoted Jesus to prophet status.

Well? Do you see it was wrong to force people of all religions into one, perhaps even "evil" since it was planned to force one set of lawmaker's religion on others?

This is crossing into Conspiracies in Religion topic.

Divorce rate ... again, that gets into Religious topics.

Teen pregnancy ... media and religion both.

SAT score requirements dropping ... accomodating those whom were less advantaged due to societal misdeeds in the past.

I do not feel any of these topics contributed to an increase in "heinous" crimes.

Obviously, our ideologies differ greatly but I certainly mean no disrespect.

[edit on 4/3/2010 by Trexter Ziam]

reply to post by OldThinker


My opinion on this is that communication is at an all time high so if something happens anywhere in the world good or bad people hear about it immediately after it happens. Back in the 80's it would take a couple days to a few weeks to gain enough momentum in the media. Its basically an information overload and add to that a major global recession, people losing there jobs can't support themselves and their families, can't rely on government assistance because the government could care less about working class people. Bake at 350 degree's for one hour and you just created global Anarchy. Sad but I think its true to a certain extent.

Originally posted by Mountainmeg
I have thought about this in length and have formed what tends to be a very unpopular answer. ........

I'm a stay at home mom now, and I'm the only one in the neighborhood. I don't know any of the other parents on my street, much less two streets over. I know there's no one else looking out for kids and that curtails where I'll allow my children to go.....

Your job is the hardest....I salute you!

The breakdown of the family is most definitely a big contributor here. Don't let the "unpopular belief" sway you...you are doing good work!

A stop-gap really

OT

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam


Obviously, our ideologies differ greatly but I certainly mean no disrespect.

[edit on 4/3/2010 by Trexter Ziam]

That's how whe learn...glad you joined!

reply to post by Aliensdoexist


Increased speed in communications is a factor, thank you!

OT

Hello OT,

Hope you are well,
I think that this sums up what is going on,what we are seeing is the out working
of what was foretold-

But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power

2 Timothy 3:2

And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

Matt 24:3

May we have the Grace and Strength to
persevere and hold true to the end.

Violet.

I think people are more self centered today. Our culture seems to create an environment for it. Evil (which is selfishness to the extreme) has always existed but it is tolerated in our society more and more. The sense of community is eroding in part because we are not dependent on one another as much. City dwellers have become anonymous. If you live in a small town you may not see it as much, people know who you are. You are not going to give someone the finger on the freeway if you are going to see them in the grocery store later that day (unless you're drunk or on meth). TV, the internet, working in a cubicle (or not working at all) further isolate individuals. They begin to succumb to their own desires (drugs and alcohol, etc). You no longer see others as individuals they are just in your way.

People used to have more respect for "good behavior", and would at least hide "bad behavior"(there were certain things even bad guys didn't do in front of most women and children). Now almost anything goes. Now people get bored and get more extreme.

Evil is not punished, it is encouraged, and we get to see it on reality T.V..

[edit on 4-3-2010 by dusty1]

Originally posted by OldThinker

Do you think evil has growing and goodness/decency is declining?

In a word...YES.

Why? I would say like most issues dealing with morality, there are a number of factors involved. Breakdown in the family structure, as you mentioned, is one. Other factors mentioned in this thread (breakdown in community, etc.) also apply.

A big part of it is more people are thinking they can get "something for nothing" on every level...they think they somehow deserve more than life generally offers. This is because people in the developed world world have become spoiled and soft after many years of relative and growing material prosperity. (I speak in generalities, of course...there are plenty of exceptions, etc.) So in a sense, it is materialism that is behind this.

I think we can see the "something for nothing" phenomenon on all levels. It goes beyond liberal and conservative. People who expect huge pensions or eternal gains in their investments. People who expect the governmnet to take care of their every needs. Public officials who expect cushy jobs and early retirement with huge gauranteed pensions. There are Mr. and Mrs. "too much home" who bought bigger houses than they needed during the bubble years and racked up 6-figure credit-card debts, and are now shocked, just shocked to discover that investments and property can go down as well as up. Then we have the big banks with their hands out, whining for bailout money while they pay record bonuses. Or the car companies. Or governments printing endless mountains of bonds and shipping jobs overseas. The developed economies have become "financialized," which is a polite way of saying manufacturing has been shipped offshore and work increasingly consists not of producing real goods and providing real services, but of playing complex paper-shuffling games that are nothing but gussied-up pyramaid schemes.

I have a lot of sympathy for those who are hurting in hard economic times. I am not one to mutter about "welfare queens" or blame the unemployed for what is often far beyond their control. But the bottom line is that society as a whole in Europe/USA feels entitled to far more than it can afford. This is true for individuals, businesses, and governments. They lack the psychospiritual ability to find pleasure in a non-materialistic lifestyle, as well. This leads to a corrupt society. Its a vicious circle as well because once society starts to get corrupt, the non-corrupt get stepped over, so simply to survive more and more people join the corruption, creating more corruption, more evil, and so on.


[edit on 3/4/10 by silent thunder]

reply to post by OldThinker


Memory can be selective

Like you, I grew up in simpler times. Ranged far and wide with a gang of kids. Our territory seemed endless -- literally miles of deserted beach, a ten mile long spit of sand surround one one side by a wide river and on the other, the Pacific Ocean. Our parents left us in charge of our younger siblings all day long

It was great. Made me strong and independent

BUT --- I haven't forgotten the paedophiles who stalked and chased us through the sandhills. Haven't forgotten my lungs bursting and burning as I ran up and down that burning hot sand. Haven't forgotten the terror as I had to run back to get my younger brother and sister and literally drag them from danger

Haven't forgotten the blue-cattle dog we found in the mangroves, or the heavy length of steel with which it had been weighed down before being thrown into the river

Haven't forgotten that 'nice' man who befriended all us kids and bought us ice-creams on boiling-hot days and taught us how to fish. Haven't forgotten how he drew us in close with one of his fascinating stories, or how he suddenly spread his legs so we'd see his naked genitals

Haven't forgotten who PAID for those 'simpler times' -- or who GAINED, i.e., --- I and all the other 'eldest' kids paid with our childhood, our nerves --- in order our parents could enjoy all those child-free days

Where were our parents, what were they doing, when we packed a bottle of kerosene, a newspaper and box of matches along with the bananas and anything else we could find to sustain us during those long, unsupervised days in the wilderness ? Those days when our parents would say, 'Be careful. I don't want to see you back here until sunset

We dug a cave in a sandhill. Then we scooped out a 'fireplace' in one of the walls. There were about eight of us. We pushed the paper and bits of rubbish into the hole in the wall, then poured kerosene over the paper --- and lit it ! How did we escape alive ? Who would have found us if we hadn't ? Our parents would have wailed and back in The Good Old Days -- it would have been reported as a 'tragedy'. These days, those parents would have been charged with negligence and it would have served as an example to other lazy, irresponsible parents

Back in those simple days, those Good Old Days, school teachers flogged kids daily. They were sadists, paid by the State. They had a selection of canes, nicely arranged by thickness in a special stand at the front of the class. They delighted in flogging kids before the assembled class or school. They taunted their victims, before and during the ordeal. They'd bring the cane up savagely first, to cause excruciating pain across the knuckles and fingernails. Then, while the victim was breathless in pain, DOWN would come that cane like a freight-train, across the victims palm and wrist. For the slightest of justifications. Usually, the kid being caned was the class-scapegoat -- some kid from a poor family, or of lesser intelligence, or just because the teacher didn't like the kid's face

What did those brutalised kids go on to become ? Did they become violent as consequence of the cruelty to which they'd been subjected ? Yeah, the good old days

Unspeakable cruelty against children and animals, back in those good old days. Wife-bashing was so common, it wasn't even mentioned and certainly the law did nothing. Every Friday night, pay-night, the sounds of women and children being bashed by the alcohol-soaked 'breadwinner' were a regular suburban chorus. And the police did nothing, apart from claim they were 'prevented from taking action unless someone was first killed or badly injured'. Hell, the police bashed their own wives and kids. And if a woman left her husband she was judged as being automatically 'wrong' and was allowed, by law, to take only her sewing machine

Criminals ? Sure there were criminals. And knee-cap smashing, and finger chopping, shootings, stabbings, rapes, assorted murders, cement-shoes for those tossed into the sea instead of being buried beneath highways

Not much paid-work for women in those days, eh? Unless they were prepared to take what was going, such as washing and ironing and cleaning for other women whose husbands earned better money. Otherwise, for the 'educated women', there was office-housewifely duties as receptionists and telephonists and typists. And who would have dreamed of crying 'sexual harrassment' when the boss groped a woman or worse ? There was no such thing as 'sexual harrassment' or 'sexual equality' -- what happened in the workplace was a woman's 'own fault'. So they kept quiet --- to keep their job

The further back we care to go in history, the worse it gets. Four and five year old orphans being purchased by the dozen by factory-owners. Ever seen the old photos of those kids with their missing arms and legs ? And they're the ones who lived

Memory is selective. The world has never been a Disneyland. Sure, you lose some things in order to gain others. But one thing's remained constant --- people and all the cruelties and kindnesses of which they're capable

reply to post by OldThinker


Have you considered that perhaps it is our perceptions of our environment that has changed?

As others have noted, we are much more connected and deluged with violent crime reports, if none are available locally or regionally, they are found and reported from the national or global news pool for your consumption.

This, along with constant fear mongering from government and corporate sectors, leaves one with a constant feeling of apprehension, and dare I say, dread; that is projected into our behavior and consequently our decision making which manifests in how we feel about our children and their environment.

It does feel like things are more dangerous out there, but there are metrics which I am not referencing right now (lazy ) , that would show that on a per capita basis crime fluctuates in cycles on a per region basis.

So, in terms of the evil/hard crime I would say that is perception.

I do however feel there is a decay in our connectivity (ironically, as our technical connectivity goes up, it seems like our human empathic connectivity goes down.), and people seem to be 'more out for themselves' without regard to the implications to others. Even the casual behaviour seems to be eroding, general politeness and courtesy, possibly caused by the crowded caged rat response.



interesting topic, thanks for the thought trajectory OP!

reply to post by Dock9


You make good points. As one "downtown boy" once said, "the good old days weren't always good and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems."

Nevertheless, I can't shake the impression that evil and corruption are growing and that basic decency is declining. Maybe in the old days we had less access to information about what other people were experiencing, so we didn't realize how bad things were. Or if people personally suffered, they didn't realize that others were in the same boat. Those with living memories of the horrors of the 30s and 40s (depression, war, etc...very grim times for many) are also dying off.

reply to post by silent thunder


Thanks

It's my impression ... just an impression ... that our 'leaders' have been/are being corrupted and compromised to dangerous levels these days

But of course it could be that we lived in blissful ignorance in past times

We believed the 'news', for example

Most of our news came in the form of newspapers and radio

We didn't begin to see our politicians up-close until television. Suddenly, our eyes began telling us things our ears had not. The mean mouths, the smirking, the conceits, the untrustworthy smiles, etc. Whole new dimension

Then the 'conspiracy theories' began going mainstream in books and magazines. No longer was information the exclusive domain of journalists and insiders

And then of course, the internet. Things which had been mentioned only in strictest confidence in small towns and closed-rooms were known worldwide in an instant

Television and internet ripped the lid off and thank God it did

People-power now poses the greatest threat in history to the cabals

*They* believed they'd established control when they gained a monopoly on the media, lol

and just as they'd achieved saturation ownership ---- internet

Yes, we're far more informed now than at any other time. We're going through that transition and yes, it's disturbing, uncomfortable, frightening even

*They* are book-burning and trashing education and information, but the internet is keeping abreast of the situation. They're exposed like never before

I suspect They are as disturbed, uncomfortable and frightened as we are by these developments. They've had it their own way for millenia. They're naked. They're vulnerable

and just as they are like rabbits in the spotlights, many of us are disturbed to the point we'd like to turn back the clock and retreat to simpler, less complicated times

But for better or worse, we're here now .. where we are

reply to post by OldThinker


There are a lot of interesting things going on right now in the world. Economic collapses, environmental crisis, new cold wars, and social break downs. What this means is that the modern globalist world is falling apart. The super empires are no longer empires, but shaking powers about to dissolve into chaos. As time moves on, more people are rejecting globalization and mass-centralized government built on hollow values. Unsurprisingly, we are slowly moving toward more local societies, anchored in culture, tradition, and respect for the environment:

Indigenous groups are looking for better representation at the United Nations body negotiating on issues related to the protection of their traditional knowledge and traditional cultural expressions.

“We are not states, but we are nations,” said Stuart Wuttke, acting director of environmental stewardship for the Assembly of First Nations, the national governing body representing First Nations communities in Canada. “We share distinct cultures, languages, and history.”

Wuttke and Benoit of Canada expressed a similar view to many of the other indigenous representatives Intellectual Property Watch spoke with during the IGC meeting. They said they want respect and recognition of “our nations and our governments.”


What these groups are demanding is independence. They want to be free from globalization; free from power domination by large bureaucratic bodies that don't care about nor understand their distinctive culture, ethics, history and need for freedom. We can see this in many places around the world today. Small, local cultures are rising up against their masters. They want to be free to determine their own destiny, and now national cultures are waking up as well, Europe being an obvious example. In many parts of Eastern Europe, nationalism and paganism are becoming natural among people again. It's a rebirth of the traditional order to release us from environmental, social, economic and cultural self-destruction.

Even social science confirms the lifestyle of traditional societies is healthier than that of our modern suburban hell:

A stroll in the park could be just as effective for treating hyperactive children as drugs such as Ritalin, a study has revealed.

Troubled youngsters showed significant improvements in concentration levels after what researchers called 'a dose of nature'.

A 20-minute walk in green surroundings gave improvements on a par with a daily dose of drugs for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, or ADHD.


So instead of drugs, all we need is more time spent in open, green places, which would be an integral part of a tradititional society that values health, closeness to nature, and peace of mind higher than consumption, job and money. Much of the disease in the West and growing modern places like China is the decay of the spirit in people. We suffer from low self-confidence, selfishness and fear of failure. As a result we try to push down others to feel good, and hate anyone who succeeds in life or suggests we change the course of society. We enforce status quo to defend ourselves against what we could have had if we dared to change our life and work for a common goal. Can we change direction? Yes, we can--people with determination can do anything.

By returning to traditional values, we escape prostituting ourselves to money, career and television. We give up the globalist lifestyle and determine our own destiny. We refuse to give up our freedom. You can sense it lingering in the air: the slow but growing resistance against our modern way of life and its tedious, stupid and corrupt side-effects. The walls are cracking and people are fleeing their caves of enslavement. We are returning to our traditions, acknowledging what people have known for thousands of years: without roots, no trees can grow.

Do I sound hopeful? It's because I am.

Originally posted by OldThinker
I think crime is the effect and evil is the cause...

So I guess its both.

So, let me get this straight.

When the proverbial SHTF and a person's family needs food and they have to steal it to survive that's "evil," eh? Boy, there are going to be a bunch of "evil" people out there soon. Possibly even you.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by OldThinker

 

To answer your question,yes evil is growing.This world is getting
worse everyday.

I don't believe it is.
The world is as good or bad as it ever was.
Or more specifically, we're still doing the same sort of things we always did.

I think some of the more heinous acts being committed are more exposed thanks to various forms of faster communication and the media. That said, there are people that still believe slavery ended when it is alive, well and even tolerated all over the world.

That includes the United States.

Regarding crime stats in the U.S., according to Wiki:

In 2004 America's crime rate was roughly the same as in 1970, with the homicide rate being at its lowest level since 1965.

...(crime) has drastically declined ever since 1993.

It's not getting any worse here, but I bet you just hear more horrible stories than your parents did.
Mostly because that is what draws in an audience. A good tragedy.

I mean all that stuff about "recent" Catholic scandals for example is just the tip of the iceberg, since they have been behaving that way for centuries and with virtual impunity.

Pedophiles also didn't just step onto the scene in the 20th century, nor did child killers. Things like date-rape for instance, which happened more than we want to admit, was never talked about for fear of stigma until more recently. Some older women will tell you that they went through such things and it wasn't uncommon.

Actress Helen Mirren claims to actually have been date-raped a couple of times but:

...did not report the attacks because "you couldn't do that in those days."CNN

All of these things were still happening while you were playing outside, just not to you or to your knowledge.
Most of it wasn't public knowledge at all.

So for example, right now while your daughter may be sitting at home playing with her new Wii, another in Darfur is trying to not get gang raped, or another in the Balkans just got sold into sex slavery, one got buried alive in Turkey because she was dating, or one in China was dumped into the orphanage (and a doomed existence) because of the one-child policy and the pressure to have a boy is immense.

Now your daughter doesn't know this is going on now but eventually she will, and she may think to herself that the world is becoming more evil.

No, the world isn't getting worse, we're just getting a better look at the darker corners of it and the wicked practitioners that dwell there, who were hidden from the light of day for a long time.

Most of the other horrors still remain hidden and suppressed by the powerful.

- Lee

Hontar: "We must work in the world, your eminence. The world is thus."
Altamirano: "No, Señor Hontar. Thus have we made the world."

The OP should recognize the source

reply to post by OldThinker


You said in your opening statement that the media was to blame.
I just said we are all to blame.