An appeal from a cop...

reply to post by whaaa


I agree; the us/them mentality is hard to break. But try to look at it from a sociological perspective. It is, by nature, very difficult to fully become a part of a community or group that you have to police. Consider it as a type of management/employee scenario. As managers of a community, we have to maintain a level of distance, on a personal level, from that community in order to effectively manage it. Just as managers in an office have to avoid the pitfalls of becoming too friendly with their employees, so must police be very cautious of becoming too close to those that they might one day have to arrest.

it is an unfortunate, yet natural sociological occurance. In a way, it is very unnatural from how we as social creatures are programmed to act.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

My life is absolute proof of the abuse of power these people do, and thats the majority.

reply to post by andy1033

 

Then, by your logic....

My life is absolute proof of the wonderful job these people do, and that's the majority.

Because every law enforcement officer I've ever dealt with has always been professional, kind, and helpful.

My bet is that you are a pretty white girl.

Can i say something officer?

Dont taze me bro!

[edit on 4-3-2010 by SuperSlovak]

Originally posted by andy1033


I have worked for them by the way, and got to be the worst working experience of my life.

My guess would be as a CI. (No, that does not mean Criminal Investigator)

Hmm the thread isn't a page long yet and already there is hate. It is a shame people hate the police as much as they do. I honestly feel bad for regular police, luckily enough in my LE capacity I don't have to deal with the public.

S&F and as another poster stated the same could be said about anything. Generalizations are bad about anything, maybe they are bad in your area but that doesn't mean they are everywhere.

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
Can i say something officer?

Dont taze me bro!

[edit on 4-3-2010 by SuperSlovak]

Haha fantastic.

Has to be the best line ever.

Police work, like any other profession, only attracts certain types of people. One type of person that is attracted to police work are people who have a strong and sincere desire to serve the community. These people are the good cops.

The other type of person that is attracted to police work are people that love power and love to use it. These are the bad cops.

I think it is fair to criticize police forces for not weeding out the potential bad cops and rewarding the behavior of good cops. A bad cop that throws a bunch of people in jail and rules the streets with an iron fist is more likely to get ahead in many police departments than a good cops who resolves street-level issues through tact and reason.

Originally posted by JWH44
Consider it as a type of management/employee scenario. As managers of a community, we have to maintain a level of distance, on a personal level, from that community in order to effectively manage it.

see, that's your problem right there, it's not supposed to be a management/employee situation, it's supposed to be a master/servant situation, with cops as servants. "public service" "protect and serve" they're not just words, they're supposed to mean something.

i have met an awful lot of cops in an awful lot of situations and i have never ever met a good cop. i can't even remember hearing about one.

maybe a lot of people have a bad opinion of the cops because there are a lot of bad cops.

One of the main problems with police is that they have become abusive overlords of the people rather than public servants. Sure we can all think of that rare "nice" cop, but the large majority act like a demented street gang. They steal, beat people for no reason, torture people with electrical shocks for "non-compliance", murder unarmed innocents, and all the while scrutinizing the public to arrest people for tiny, harmless offenses.
If you try to get some justice when the police are guilty of wrong-doing, guaranteed they will make your life a living hell and most likely charge YOU instead.

Even worse, in many areas the police have LITERALLY become a street gang, running the prostitution and drugs while shutting down their competition.

I think it's unfair for moral-bound, good cops like yourself to be painted with the same brush as the corrupt ones, but it's NOT just a few bad apples.

reply to post by JWH44


Could you explain the apparent shift in policing philosophy from the community policing techniques of old to the more military oriented special op mentality. Seems to me like alot of police are taking on the appearance of SWAT rather than that of a peace officer.

Appearance to the community says alot about an officer, and actions definately speak louder than words.

Respect

reply to post by JWH44

Obviously, police are not going to to ever be able to "solve" the larger problem of our degraded moral fabric in society.

I am a criminal justice major. I tell you I never want to be a police officer for the reasons you point out. My goal is to get into the legal end of police work, the policy making side, the research side. Anyhow, the statement above really points out the problem throughout our society and current structured system. The people that do the job seem to not have enough input into the design of the structure.

I have also personally arrested many throughout my career. I have never once needed to punch a person to subdue them, nor repeatedly kick someone with 5 people standing around restraining them. I am sure you are aware there are many restraint techniques that make cuffing someone quickly very possible. The biggest issue I see is that the above occurs way too often with officers not cuffing a suspect so that they may continue to justify resisting arrest. You and I know that once a suspect is in cuffs a court is not going to entertain flexibility in regard to police kicking or punching someone. If police agencies can tackle this issue head on, they will see a lot less YouTube videos of police misconduct.

We have spoken before back during the G-20 events in Pittsburgh during your first ATS post ever!

Nice to see you creating a thread, you are officially becoming a member of the ATS community! Hopefully this will not hamper any future promotions for you.

Though you may or may not recall we had a productive exchange and your words were well written and your concerns genuine which I am sure many of us who are concerned about the growing and intrusive powers of the Federal and State Government appreciated.

Understanding other people’s perspectives is important.

Yet perspectives are usually derived from out of context viewing of just isolated elements of a much larger issue and picture.

It is said Hitler was kind to his dogs and doted lovingly on women and children, all of which are admirable qualities but did those kinder gentler aspects of a soul engaged in otherwise sinister and barbaric and murderous enterprises actually compensate for the latter with the former.

While it is not my intention to liken you to Hitler or any other law enforcement officer we can only judge people truly by the distance they travel and the overall company they keep and the sum total of their actions and not just those selective portions that have some inherent quality value and decency to them.

While you and many other law enforcement officers may in fact have the most noble of intentions the fact remains the same that like Hitler’s officers you are bound to a chain of command, and in this case a chain of command that has over 600,000 taxing and penalizing unconstitutional codes that you are engaged in the enterprise of enforcing through a might makes right style and utilizing tactics to do so that often deny life and liberty to people who have in fact not caused a real damage to the state or any other human being.

Does the occasional cat rescued from a tree, a little old lady protected from a purse snatcher, or a pedestrian or motorist protected from a drunk driver then absolve the enforcement of over 600,000 codes that are in essence designed to regulate almost ever facet of our existence from the food we eat, to the clothes we wear, to what we are entertained by, raise our children, labor and do business?

Arguably many citizens are starting to believe no.

The inclination for you to take this personally is an inherent part of the human psyche but there are real reason why law enforcement is having an image problem, part of it is those 600,000 unconstitutional codes, part of it is politicians using inflammatory rhetoric to likewise disparage and condemn citizens alarmed and concerned over Washington’s unlawful abuses of unconstitutionally usurped power and a growing cadre of armed henchmen employed to enforce their abuses and alleviate their growing paranoia and guilt.

Is the paycheck worth it? Is getting that cat out of the tree when the response isn’t lady call the fire department going to really absolve your association and participation in this now very corrupt system?

I don’t know, those are matters for you to wrestle with, but the truth is at Nuremburg many well intentioned Nazi Officers swung from the gallows after “just following orders”.

Maybe it’s time for a career change, you after all do seem like a decent enough man to me.


[edit on 4/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by JWH44
Consider it as a type of management/employee scenario. As managers of a community, we have to maintain a level of distance, on a personal level, from that community in order to effectively manage it.

see, that's your problem right there, it's not supposed to be a management/employee situation, it's supposed to be a master/servant situation, with cops as servants. "public service" "protect and serve" they're not just words, they're supposed to mean something.

i have met an awful lot of cops in an awful lot of situations and i have never ever met a good cop. i can't even remember hearing about one.

maybe a lot of people have a bad opinion of the cops because there are a lot of bad cops.

Hmm would you mind listing one of these situations as an example. I am always interested in hearing what makes people have their perceptions.

reply to post by JWH44
POWER BEST EXPRESSES ITSELF IN GENTLENESS
The bully, the despot, and the person in authority who uses his power to hurt others are all universally disliked. They create their own unpleasant environment within which they must exist. By contrast, the superior person in a position of power can be clearly recognized for his gentleness. His gentle expression of power does not provoke resentment nor incur resistance, and so makes easy the attainment of his pruposes and the continued growth of his power. By following the example of the superior person, you will go your way unopposed on a smooth, easy road. ~ wu wei

Originally posted by Romans 10:9
You've got to be a certain type of person, psychologically, to begin with, to even WANT to be a cop.

Power-trip A-Holes all the way.

I hear basically its adreneline junkys that become cops...and fair enough, you need to like the excitment and trip it causes to even consider it.

That doesn't mean that because your an adreneline junky you must be a a-hole.

The problem is, if, lets say, 10% of cops are corrupt, you can see it as 10%..but if you are a victim of the corruption, then you only see 100% corruption in your face, and bound to be jaded.

I think its about 20% frankly, I heard some stories...but then again, the stories I heard it from are not the most law abiding citizens anyhow...so one has to consider the source.

it's not so much just law enforcement but the whole system. going in front of a judge and not being listened to and automatically losing a case is not something you may be used to since you are law enforcement, but it makes people pretty upset. even though officers are obviously required it's difficult not to dislike someone who is just another man and no better than you but has authority over you. some officers act like they are better than others but the only difference is a badge and that your mistakes get covered up and buried and ours get us incarcerated.

Ok, i hear ya, BUT, if you sit there and admit the very fact that corruption does indeed exist within your industry and you have seen it first hand and in no way would argue that fact and also witness how the country is steadily moving into a police state, i have to ask, why then STILL continue to affiliate yourself with them if you describe yourself as nothing like them????

Like they say, if the shoe fits....

Law enforcement is the most visible apparatus that inhibits change. I CANNOT go to a federal building with a group of people and drag out the politicians who are wrecking this country for fear of a violent confrontation with law enforcement. Every person who wants real change knows this but doesn't speak above their breath about it.

A person is not truly free in this world and law enforcement IS the physical arm of tyrants and oppressors that are placed over us.

reply to post by JWH44


While I can see your attempt is heartfelt, ultimately, there are far too many people on ATS who will not listen, because of their thoughts on Law Enforcement.

Whether their perspective is skewed, or not, this is ultimately something that people will always be divided upon, whether you want them to be or not.

I say this with the utmost of respect, and not being a Law Enforcement Officer, but having a Vietnam era Marine for a stepfather, who taught me to follow policy, procedure, and protocol, who taught me knowledge is power.

I was as well a Security Officer who always dealt with Officer's bringing in psyche patients, and I am a current adult leader of adult leaders in an organization I love and some here on ATS attack, the Boy Scouts of America, and even they are not off limits to those who would attack that organization.

I have studied Government, Law Enforcement, Military, the Intelligence Agencies, you name it, all of my life, because of my interest in warfare and through that the Art of War, which I turned into the Art of Peace for myself.

I am evenly balanced in the Western mindset, and the Eastern mindset.

Over all, most ATS'ers will leave you be, respect you, especially those who are current, retired, or future Law Enforcement and Military.

I was a Police Explorer as a teenager, I'm sure you will come in contact with me again, many on ATS respect me, many know I will never back down.

Whether I agree or disagree with Law Enforcement, or my own Government, I do not use the blanket of corruption as a means to shade my thoughts on all of the Officer's who work, like you do, but I have had experiences in my own local area, and had to deal with the Dirty Cop type, and never knowing who to trust, I dealt with them on my own.

I can spot the type, because I've learned how to profile, over my lifetime.

I see what you're saying as sincere, as sincere as I can seeing your words, and not your phyiscal actions, career, or personnel file, body language, and aura.

I say all of this to tell you good luck, with your mission off ATS, good luck with your tenure on ATS, and to be safe out in your job, always and forever.

Never turn your back on an adversary, ever, it is something I never do.

Over all, I know it is the Government, politician's specifically, who have the most corruption, but there are those tempted within your profession who make me hate them, the Dirty Cop type, not all Law Enforcement Officers.

All of that having been said, feel free to peruse my threads, and feel free to U2U me.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow
Law enforcement is the most visible apparatus that inhibits change. I CANNOT go to a federal building with a group of people and drag out the politicians who are wrecking this country for fear of a violent confrontation with law enforcement. Every person who wants real change knows this but doesn't speak above their breath about it.

A person is not truly free in this world and law enforcement IS the physical arm of tyrants and oppressors that are placed over us.

You are basically describing a lawless environment where those who feel like dishing out their own justice do so? If that is the case then what is stopping anyone who feels you are an obstruction to their goals from just getting you and doing what they want with you?

Though I do understand what you are saying, I would like to get rid of a few politicians as well...