This is only my second thread ever so please excuse any bad formatting.

So black holes are supposedly at the center of every galaxy. If this is true life as we know it cannot exist without a black hole being present.

Im not going to get into how they are formed and what not because that is not what this thread is about. My point is if there is a black hole at the center of every galaxy or even half of them, wouldnt all the matter in the universe ultimately be doomed to be absorbed by them over a long enough time period?

I know that generally most people will agree the universe is infinite but what if it is so massively large that it only seems infinite. This is where alot of theories of our universe being one of many come in. If the universe was truely infinite then black holes wouldnt seem to be a problem.

These are my thoughts on the universe and its relationship with black holes.

In a singular non infinite universe could the big bang have been an ultimate black hole that had absorbed everything in the universe and exploded? If that were true then could the big bang have been one of many in an infinite loop of matter being compacted and expanded over massive time periods?

In a multiverse where our universe is one of many could black holes be simply taking matter from our universe and spitting it out in another? I think if dark matter is proven to be real then maybe it is matter from a parallel universe that used to exist in our own until it was trapped in a black hole.

Or is our universe one that simply started with a big bang and will end with every galaxy eventually being absorbed by its own black hole?

With that said I dont claim any of this as fact simply as speculation. I want to know what the opinion of ats was on this subject.

Im well aware that no one knows the answers to these questions and humans probably will never know in our lifetimes but who says we cant wrack our brains trying to figure them out.

Not very good with science. But the leading theory i think is that the big bang was a collision of branes. And i think black holes suck in matter and white holes blow all the matter out in other universes. As for the universe exploding into another big bang, im not sure...i guess if our universe collides with another or something along those lines it could happen. Then again there were theories i think of the elastic band type effect where the universe reaches a certain point in expansion and then contracts again. I don't know really...i can never keep up with all these theories. I may be using old theories or just plain wrongly interpreted ones. Im sure you will get more accurate answers soon!

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Solomons]

Black holes aren't monsters sucking everything. They just tend to suck anything that gets too close, as stars / planets do. Therefore, it is perfectly possible to orbit around a black hole, and it seems that every galaxy is doig it. The black hole in the middle of our galaxy will "eat" all the matter close to him, but has no way of doing so when it comes to farther stars / planets (etc).

The greatest question indeed!

My current thoughts on this: (their prone to change based on my current knowledge and state of mind at any given time)

At the moment I concur with the big bang theory.
I think eventually all galaxies will stop moving away from the center and eventually they will be pulled back.

Slowly they will combine with one another on their long journey back to the center forming many super galaxies which will continue to be drawn to the center where it all began.

Eventually they too will combine into one giant mass containing everything in the universe.
This mass I think will begin to compress through processes I cannot understand and eventually create another big bang thus continuing the cycle.

So, the gist of my current belief is that the universe is a continuous cycle of destruction and rebirth on a universal scale of time and size that none will ever comprehend.

Of course this is all speculation.

Sorry if the above doesn't make much sense, it's hard to articulate certain thoughts sometimes. It makes sense to me though.

Originally posted by Jalis
Black holes aren't monsters sucking everything. They just tend to suck anything that gets too close, as stars / planets do. Therefore, it is perfectly possible to orbit around a black hole, and it seems that every galaxy is doig it. The black hole in the middle of our galaxy will "eat" all the matter close to him, but has no way of doing so when it comes to farther stars / planets (etc).

i remember watching a show on national geographic about how black holes moved around the universe and went through stages where they werent absorbing matter. Also since matter cant be created or destroyed wouldnt eventually there come to a point where there would be no matter left for them to suck in?

Originally posted by ShadowLink
The greatest question indeed!

My current thoughts on this: (their prone to change based on my current knowledge and state of mind at any given time)

At the moment I concur with the big bang theory.
I think eventually all galaxies will stop moving away from the center and eventually they will be pulled back.

Slowly they will combine with one another on their long journey back to the center forming many super galaxies which will continue to be drawn to the center where it all began.

Eventually they too will combine into one giant mass containing everything in the universe.
This mass I think will begin to compress through processes I cannot understand and eventually create another big bang thus continuing the cycle.

So, the gist of my current belief is that the universe is a continuous cycle of destruction and rebirth on a universal scale of time and size that none will ever comprehend.

Of course this is all speculation.

Sorry if the above doesn't make much sense, it's hard to articulate certain thoughts sometimes. It makes sense to me though.

this theory makes the most sense to me of them all i feel like there is a hidden point to the existence of black holes that science just doesnt understand yet

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Shake]

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Shake]

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Shake]

Originally posted by Jalis
Black holes aren't monsters sucking everything. They just tend to suck anything that gets too close, as stars / planets do. Therefore, it is perfectly possible to orbit around a black hole, and it seems that every galaxy is doig it. The black hole in the middle of our galaxy will "eat" all the matter close to him, but has no way of doing so when it comes to farther stars / planets (etc).

but what determines the size of a black hole? are they variable? we know black holes have immense gravity, correct? so, i would think they do "draw in" matter. does this make them larger and therefore, increase their gravity ... and their draw?

i don't know if this is the case or not, but if it is, i would suspect that, theoretically, black holes would ingest all matter ultimately ... though, of course, other phenomena would happen before such a scenario ever occurred.

IMHO the Solar Dynamics Observatory was recently sent into orbit to take measurements of the black hole at the centre of our sun. its infinitesimally small, but starting to make an obvious impact on the sun(the suns outer magnetic field flipped in january, but we dont yet know whats going on in the core(s) of the sun).


I cant wait until we start getting some juicy images back from the SDO. Especially since the sun is coming to its boiling point, it should prove to be a good show.



Just to add to the black hole convo....

If a black hole is sucking matter into it at a brilliant speed, then that would mean that the matter being sucked in is increasing in mass and density as it approaches the speed of light and beyond.

So as a particle is entering the black hole, it goes so fast that it expands and provides for the black hole "more than it can chew" thus keeping it from growing.

And now that we know the gravitron exists, and is immense. We can postulate that the black hole is prevented from getting bigger by the abundant amount of excess energy that is created by matter accelerating, expanding, and collapsing. The black hole eats whatever it can, is held in place by the excess, and spits away any by-products of this process.

Black holes are actually creating more matter than they are destroying.

How can our universe have more black holes than stars? and we still exist?

Think of a black hole like your compost bin. Of course matter is being destroyed in there, but new, remade matter comes out of it. Maybe a smaller amount of soil, but definitely more dense and energized than what went into the compost bin.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by 7minds]

Anyone ever thought about how 'it' all started with a singularity? the theory is that there is also a singularity at the 'bottom' of a black hole............

Originally posted by Shake
In a singular non infinite universe could the big bang have been an ultimate black hole that had absorbed everything in the universe and exploded? If that were true then could the big bang have been one of many in an infinite loop of matter being compacted and expanded over massive time periods?

That's an interesting idea Shake and kinda like a variation of the traditional Big
Bang/Big Crunch Theory...

Nice work I reckon your idea is far from beyond the realms of possibility


Peace

Originally posted by Retrovertigo

Originally posted by Shake
In a singular non infinite universe could the big bang have been an ultimate black hole that had absorbed everything in the universe and exploded? If that were true then could the big bang have been one of many in an infinite loop of matter being compacted and expanded over massive time periods?

That's an interesting idea Shake and kinda like a variation of the traditional Big
Bang/Big Crunch Theory...

Nice work I reckon your idea is far from beyond the realms of possibility


Peace

thanks, i got tired of all the political arguing here on ats just wanted some friendly discussion for once

You know, one of the issues I always had with the whole black hole theory, can be summed up in a simple question:

Where are all the white holes?

Perhaps I am just ignorant, in the literal sense. In that I am just not informed. But, it would seem to me, that logically, if there are all these black holes everywhere, that there would be an equal number of white holes spewing matter everywhere. Am I misunderstanding?

It also just occurred to me, that if black holes suck matter in, and are in essence gravity wells, then would white holes actually be radiating gravity? That makes me think about a thing I read online awhile back, where this gal said something about a theory that our universe bleeds gravity to a parallel universe.

But you see, such is the result of trying to speculate on something that can't be proven. It's like talking about what God had for breakfast. You have some interesting thoughts, but I am not sure I even subscribe to the whole gravity model in the first place.

Chrono

take a look at my page its about blackholes the norway spiral and chakras. i tell how blackholes suck in information just like the chakras of are body do, also the earth or anything to do with energy do to...check it out

This is my attempt at answering this logically and simply.

Black holes can suck up everything in the universe but so long as something else is creating new matter faster than it is being absorbed we can have an infinite universe.

Put it this way: Everybody on our planet eventually dies. However, the human species can [theoretically barring the world exploding] continue indefinitely because more life is created than is lost. Same principal would apply to the universe I should think.

As to the point about not needing as many white holes as black holes in order to balance things out -- not necessarily. These are just made-up numbers, but this is my point: If black holes suck up 5% of the universe daily, and a white hole is capable of spewing 8% daily, one does not need as many white holes as black holes to still maintain balance.

Originally posted by BreakinThEwaLL
take a look at my page its about blackholes the norway spiral and chakras. i tell how blackholes suck in information...............

Perhaps if you provided a link to your site those interested in your speculation could take a look?

Originally posted by lpowell0627
This is my attempt at answering this logically and simply.

Black holes can suck up everything in the universe but so long as something else is creating new matter faster than it is being absorbed we can have an infinite universe.

This statement is not true.
Black holes like all other gravity producing masses have an event horizon.
That is to say there is eventually a point some distance away from the object where it's gravity no longer has an effect on other masses.

Of course this event horizon is a great distance from the black hole. If it could pull in all mater I think there would be signs of distant galaxies being drawn toward these black holes.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
This is my attempt at answering this logically and simply.

Black holes can suck up everything in the universe but so long as something else is creating new matter faster than it is being absorbed we can have an infinite universe.

Put it this way: Everybody on our planet eventually dies. However, the human species can [theoretically barring the world exploding] continue indefinitely because more life is created than is lost. Same principal would apply to the universe I should think.

As to the point about not needing as many white holes as black holes in order to balance things out -- not necessarily. These are just made-up numbers, but this is my point: If black holes suck up 5% of the universe daily, and a white hole is capable of spewing 8% daily, one does not need as many white holes as black holes to still maintain balance.

the law of conservation of mass states that matter cannot be created or destroyed. imo black holes are just compacting more and more matter to the size of a sinlge atom until the breaking point and the next big bang.