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From Bush, Unprecedented Negativity

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posted on May, 31 2004 @ 11:02 AM
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From Bush, Unprecedented Negativity

There is an interesting news report in WP today on the Unprecedented Negativity being pumped out by the Bush campaign attacking John Kerry. Some senses there maybe panic as the motivating force here. Both still technically are not the partys candidate and in the past these ads would have started after Labor Day after the convention. In part the report says:

Last Monday in Little Rock, Vice President Cheney said Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry "has questioned whether the war on terror is really a war at all" and said the senator from Massachusetts "promised to repeal most of the Bush tax cuts within his first 100 days in office."

On Tuesday, President Bush's campaign began airing an ad saying Kerry would scrap wiretaps that are needed to hunt terrorists.

The same day, the Bush campaign charged in a memo sent to reporters and through surrogates that Kerry wants to raise the gasoline tax by 50 cents.

On Wednesday and Thursday, as Kerry campaigned in Seattle, he was greeted by another Bush ad alleging that Kerry now opposes education changes that he supported in 2001.

The charges were all tough, serious -- and wrong, or at least highly misleading. Kerry did not question the war on terrorism, has proposed repealing tax cuts only for those earning more than $200,000, supports wiretaps, has not endorsed a 50-cent gasoline tax increase in 10 years, and continues to support the education changes, albeit with modifications.

You can read the full report at:

www.washingtonpost.com...




posted on May, 31 2004 @ 11:34 AM
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The Republicans have learned quite a bit over the last few elections.
They have learned for example:
1.That the more times you repeat a statement, regardless of it's voracity, the more that the statement is taken as Fact.
2. Put the opposition on the defensive and they will have less resources to formulate thier own attack.
3. People are mean and really do want to hear the worst about others. Witness Reality TV.
4. Stating the "Problems" of the opposition is much easier than recounting your own achievements. Especially when you haven't much to proclaim as achievement.

Happy Election Year 2004!



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 12:15 PM
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Im not so sure the Republicans just learned those tactics you cite. I think it might be more correct to say that we have learned of their use. But when you think about it we knew those tactics and tricks all along. As` a matter of fact, they are a part of our every day life and at times we, too, practice those dark crafts in our personal lives. Its called gossip, slander, greed, jealousy, and lies throw in some spastic preservation and it covers the whole lot. Plus you could add a few not mentioned here.

Here is a little ditty one can memorize so as not to forget the principles of what we speak:

Seven Deadly Sins Mnemonic.
I'm very slow to Anger,
Don't Envy what you gain.
I'm not into Gluttony.
I'm not really Vain.
Steeped in Lust and Avarice,
Yes, I could be both,
But of all the deadly sins,
My favorite sin is Sloth.
Ive always wondered why folks are so shocked when a candidate running for office goes over the top. Sure we expect some puffery from candidates. How else can you distinguish your self from others? But there are limits to just how far you can puff before you float over the top. But shock? Why all theyre doing is seeing their own faults in someone else!



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 01:01 PM
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Quoting gmcnulty,
Here is a little ditty one can memorize so as not to forget the principles of what we speak: Please add to list!

"Don't throw stones in glass house's"

What you are trying to ascribe to the republican party exclusively is practiced by both parties and their candidates, witness Pelosi, Gore, Kennedy rants on behalf of candidate Kerry. Not to mention blind ignorance of economic indicators, the rest of Iraq outside four cities and WMD disposition. There are positive things to praise but in an election year they are ignored, downplayed and outright lied about due to politics.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 01:20 PM
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Throw stones? There's another version that relates nicely to what this war could end up doing to Bush politically.

There was a tribe of natives in some remote corner of the world, and they went to war with another tribe. They were much more powerful and won easily, and the chief of that tribe took the other chiefs throne back home and stored it upstairs in his hut. During the victory party the throne fell through the roof of the hut and crushed this chief.
The moral of the story is: People who live in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 01:26 PM
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Fact was responding to the news report I posted. It was, as it happens, just about Bush and republicans. No one said Dems don't do what ever.........Please don't get so upset you drop your tutu


Only a damned fool would try and maintain such a position: They do; and we don't." That's like "My father can beat up your father." Did you think we might be like that?


Plus, we were talking process. The article said negative, but we were talking about the process and the social implications and human attitudes and psychology of it all..........



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by gmcnulty
No one said Dems don't do what ever.........Please don't get so upset you drop your tutu


Did you think we might be like that?


but we were talking about the process and the social implications and human attitudes and psychology of it all..........


1. Oh I'm certainly not upset - you must be thin skinned to assume that. The article you quoted is in fact very one sided and talks of "poor" Kerry getting negatively attacked by the Bush campaign, I responded because some balance was needed especially reading the first two responces after the initial post.

2. In a word yes.

3. Digress all you want but I'm seeing advice to ignore others political opinion especially the conservative kind, you want to talk process - talk about ALL parties then. I fail to see the lofty discussion of attitude, social and psychological implications alluded to - maybe you are getting ahead of yourself.

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Phoenix]



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 02:37 PM
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What about that whole "Bush is a cowardly traitor for serving in the National Guard" routine from the Kerry campaign?

Wasn't that a smidge negative?



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 02:44 PM
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I'm so happy youre not upset. The use of the word was so much softer and non-judgmental from the word that first came to mind as I read your first post.

And your concern for the thickness of my skin is most heartening. Thanks so much for your caring But to answer, no, thin its not. You see, I have spend most all my life in charge of folks that would make most peoples hair stand on end and would challenge the patience of a Mother Theresa. After 35 years of that type work, you sort of learn how to roll with the punches and give some back. And as a result of this life experience, Im accustoming to winning as I did at work all the time. I know. It does sound a bit blowhardy and unrealistic but, its true. And I do.

So whats a guy to do.

But in retirement, Ive settled back to smell the roses so to speak. Living here in Florida on the Gulf, my only complaint is every damned day is nicer then the other. Can you imagine! Gets boring after awhile. Nothing but sun, clouds, fresh air and the sea, all the damn time.

Lets have some damn rain once in a while or a grey day, PLEASE like all day. Once a month would take the edge off!

I posed my question to you in a fashion that no normal and fair person could ever answer in the affirmative. Lifes just full of surprises, isnt it?

As for your digression, I have noticed the same thing. Odd, isnt it? And this bothers you? In what way? May I offer some advice! I have found, after many years of hard earned experience, there are a lot of a$$holes you come across. They are annoying, arent they? And if you pay attention to them they can really upset you.

But I have found, strangely enough, if you dont listen to them you dont get upset. Surprising, eh? And you know what; no one else is listening to them either. Now that mind blowing isnt it!

But your last remark did leave me a bit puzzled. Its you dont understand what we were talking about but some how its our fault? Is that how it goes? Well if we knew you were eavesdropping we would have talked slower and used smaller word, dear.

If your confused just try and formulate a question or two, nothing to taxing for you, and one of us will be happy to give you lessons. OK?






posted on May, 31 2004 @ 02:49 PM
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You got the link to the "cowardly traitor" remark? I never saw or heard that one. Or are you confusing Bush with Clinton - they are so much alike, except I think GW can't get it up any more........even with the little blue wonder. If he could, they'd be a match set.

I await you link to the quote.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 05:03 PM
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Have a TWATS vote, gmcnulty, and keep up the good work of disciplined argument and assessment of information that you come across on its merits.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Have a TWATS vote, gmcnulty, and keep up the good work of disciplined argument and assessment of information that you come across on its merits.


In spite of a most unfortunate acronym, I wish to thank your for your compliment and encouragement.

As you infer and may I expand upon: ones sound well-crafted and argued retort always leaves the poster with a pleasant satisfaction; where the correspondents of name calling are only left agitated annoyance.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 08:05 PM
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Sunstroke has consequences obviously, makes one have delirious illusions of witticisms and hubris. My advice - take less sun.


Quoting gmcnulty
The charges were all tough, serious -- and wrong, or at least highly misleading. Kerry did not question the war on terrorism, has proposed repealing tax cuts only for those earning more than $200,000, supports wiretaps, has not endorsed a 50-cent gasoline tax increase in 10 years, and continues to support the education changes, albeit with modifications.

Reading directly from JohnKerry.com all of his terrorism initiatives deal with terrorism in a defensive manner only - nowhere on his site does it say he will continue to bring the battle to them, voters deserve to know that so they can make an informed decision - if thats construed as negativity so be it.

Nowhere on his site does it say the tax increase he proposes are to be limited to people with $200,000 dollar incomes fact of the matter is my houseold does'nt make anything near that figure and is considered in the 90th percentile of income. Kerry talks vaugely about not raising taxes on average middle incomers - that would be around $65,000 or so I believe.
Again people deserve to know exactly where he stands on these increases - if thats considered negative so be it.

John kerry did in fact propose a 50 cent a gallon increase in gasoline taxes, does'nt matter if it was ten years ago or not, it becomes relavent everytime he says he's on the working mans side. If he was'nt then how can a normal and fair person trust that he is now. Again its a valid political point that people need to know about.

On Kerrys site they are especially vehement about Ashcroft and all forms of wiretapping, reading what I saw I'd say this charge is true.

These assertions made by Bush supporters are issues that people need to consider when voting for the candidate of their choice, just because the issues brought forth are viewed as negative by Kerry supporters and press people looking for fodder in their newspapers does not in any way mean they are not valid considerations in making a decision for the next president.

Again I will say in all fairness both parties have pulled out the stops in this campaign and we will all see a lot more mudslinging from both sides before this election is over. The democrats are just as talented at it as the republicans are.

But as you have asserted there are a$$holes out there. Who never will see both both sides of an issue even if it was plastered on their foreheads, probably people that it could be claimed have had to much sun.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 10:10 PM
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I must take my hat off to you. You sure got lots of energy and spunk.

I admire that - a fine quality to have - will steed you well in life.
Plus you're not too low on the wattage. You're one smart cookie. And no one's ever going to run over you and get away with it....'fersure.

(I am assuming your a woman and if not just accept what as a personal sharing)

WE had 5 kids the first 3 girls. So being I got a real good first hand look at what society does to our women, and I did not like it. We raised our girls to be whole human beings who could face the world and spit in adversity' face............ It was hard work; but it took. One teaches emotional challenged HS kids; ones in law; and the others finishing her masters in Early Childhood Ed. - All sweet as pie; but dont tangle with them. And I love em dearly.

The long winded point here, inductively speaking, is I hate whiney little girly victims. And youre not one of those - Are you! And to that I say, Good for you.

Both sides use the same tactics to a greater or lesser degree. Some goes to the level of salesman puffery while others take it over the top. We are or should be aware of this so we can assess and search through to what the real facts are. We both know that theres no perfect candidate with the perfect plan and those who think that or argue that are delusional. Like life, its a choice of lesser evils.

That fact disappoints and at times angers folks. Like perfect is the only way.
I felt that way when I was in my 20s. Ive come to learn that what I wanted then was unrealistic. And to expect to have that is counter productive and self destructive.

I am posting here for entertainment; mental exercise; learning; and to share so interesting moments of like type folks who realize this cybernetic world were now in is not real.

WE both know most here already have their minds made up so not sense in looking for conversions. SO what then - Lots others come here to fight beat up on someone so they can feel good about themselves.

Im not in to that..just a waste of time and energy. Plus I know who I am. And I like me. Im a nice and interesting guy.

So if ya want to share some interesting ideas, news items, tell a few jokes and have some just plain fun in a political setting.I can do that.

IT you want to mental gymnastics using logic and facts.I can do that.

If you can ask what I mean before you read my mind..Ill do that.

And if you insist on just plain fightingwith tons of giggles Ill do that too.

But for drag down fights.Ive do more then my share in places like this that mean not one whit and other places where it did.and its not worth it.

Fighting makes, even when you win, feel empty and aloneand lifes just too damn short and precious to spend any time in the shadows of emptiness all alone.

We need each other to have any chance of being filled with life and meaning and soothe the loneliness.



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 03:27 PM
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Oh, you guys skipped formal introductions? Cool!

Incumbents going negative this early in the game? I've never seen it, and as the media wide buzz on this very theme ( I've counted it in several regular outlets I frequent) indicates, not many others have either. I wonder if the overall state of affairs has anything to do with that, no?



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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Saw stats. tonight on MSNBC...........maybe it was Hardball........Bush to-date has run 73% of his ads as negative attack ads; Kerry at rate of 27%....

I'd love to see the dollars spent on these ads!

This would really give life and meaning to the abstractness of %'s..............and magnify the impact of just how much Bush committed to and is going down the Low Road of dirty campaign tactics.( And Rove has yet to do the roll-out of his Dirty Tricks Units yet)

Both have now introduced Phase II ads. Bush has all negative themes; Kerrys are about himself and what he stands for never - mentioning Bush or vote for me.

Bush's new ads are no longer called "inaccurate" as the 1st Phase were........these are referred to and called "LIES".


I guess the Bush team never bought into the new and emerging political insight learned during the Democratic primaries..............folks don't like negative ads and more so.........they hate liars, an area when Bush has a clear edge over Kerry.


Only 150 more days or so till what we both know will happen.


Ain't life just wonderful and full of soooooooooooo many surprises?



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 09:19 PM
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Quanity is one thing but maybe the democrats have an advantage on the quality of their lies and negative attacks,

Spinsanity

A few tidbits if you please,

"The Dallas paper was right about one thing: Senator Kerry and many other Democrats have been hammering Bush on the gas issue. And they keep repeating the myth about gas prices being their highest ever. Fox News Sunday ran a clip of Kerry on May 18 saying, "The gas prices are the highest prices they've been on average in this country." On May 25, the Kerry campaign released a press release that stated, "Gas and diesel prices have reached record highs under the Bush administration." And a May 23 article in the Los Angeles Times informed us that, "A Kerry campaign spokeswoman, Laura Capps, retorted, 'Until George Bush actually does something about the highest gas prices in history, we all might be looking for cheap footwear."

"And while today's average gas price is the highest ever in absolute dollars, it doesn't come close in inflation-adjusted dollars. Citing data from the American Automobile Association, numerous journalists have reported that the current average gas price, at $2.05 per gallon last week, was the highest ever. But as Reuters noted, data from the Energy Information Administration shows that in 2004 dollars, gas actually cost $2.99 in 1981. Today's "high" isn't even close"

"These attacks mirror deceptive attacks by Democrats claiming that the federal budget deficit under President Bush is the highest ever. While this is true in absolute dollars, measured as a percentage of gross domestic product (which economists generally consider a fairer measure), it's not. On that issue as well, many journalists repeated the spin rather than explaining the truth"

Now I must say Spinsanity dishes it out equally to both parties so don't go saying this is just another partisan site on the web because it is definitely not. As I said earlier in another post BOTH parties are guilty of twisting the truth and going negative in this campaign, you guys can nitpick percentages and total add numbers all day but it does'nt change the tone both parties have set.



[Edited on 1-6-2004 by Phoenix]



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 09:54 PM
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If it isn't Ms. Spunk and Vinegar herself.. hello, we be missin you.

I must really first offer you my sincerest and deepest condolences. I admire the courage and strength you demonstrate in searching so long and hard for arguments in support of George Bush(aka Google search: miserable failure) So few miserable scraps of sophistry to grasp for

You do have commitment and backbone. We must acknowledge and give credit where its deserved. Its the only fair thing to do.

And we dooooooooooo want to be fair dont we?

About that gas thing and the Faux news reports suggesting Kerrys a liar because he does not use his crystal ball..a tad over the top supercilious argument based on nit-picking snittyness.would you not say?

And that adjustment to 1968 dollar buying power trying to tell folks the screwing they feel their getting is all wrong and heres the numbers to prove it..well, it puts most folks to sleep to dream nightmares where they run around like as a Charles Manson, Jack the Ripper like character..

Sure has been a long string of bad week for you - Tough sledding fersure. How many points do you think Lead bottom Looser from Crawford will lose this week?

I mean how much lower could it go?

But anyway still good to see you cruisin the Boards.Chin up!



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 10:09 PM
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Well good evening to you also,

Are you descibing average demographics for the typical democratic voter, sure appears so to me - thanks for the enlightenment, made my evening.

quoting gmcnultys example of the average intelligence of democratic voters,

"And that adjustment to 1968 dollar buying power trying to tell folks the screwing they feel their getting is all wrong and heres the numbers to prove it..well, it puts most folks to sleep to dream nightmares where they run around like as a Charles Manson, Jack the Ripper like character.."

Yup I learn something new everyday here at ATS, thank you so much and good evening.

Oh and PS: I have had no trouble saying all along its both parties going negative, its you guys who are entrenched in party rhetoric. As they say on Fox, fair and balanced, thats what I've posted - a counter to heavily weighted one sided propaganda. How may one find fault with that!



posted on Jun, 1 2004 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
Well good evening to you also,

How may one find fault with that!


Shall I Enumerate ?????????????????

So much to do......sooooooooo little time.

I'll cut you a break tonight sweets................ but still good to see ya again. (Serious)
You're a class act.



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