Eric Lawyer-Firefighter-911 was a Criminal Coverup

Originally posted by smurfy
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Quote from Weed, "SO, substantial damage at the WTC? Check."

That's the trouble, there may well have been fatal damage. But someone nicked all the steel didn't they so, WTF am I going to check, a tainted 9/11 commission report, and the NIST cartoon, (at least the pentagon black box enabled a cartoon based on some parameters) whereas the NIST one was made up by the experts from scratch. And what about all the experts watching the telly that day who said they knew the towers were going to fall although they performed well by staying up so long, had they never heard of the telephone?

Actually there is quite a bit left in permanent storage, what are you looking for? Also, the NIST did examine the steel, you should read the report.

It never fails! Every time someone speak out against the OS the same bunch of 911 Trusters, or (OS believers) swarm in here with their insults, ridicule and negative comments, yet none of you have brought anything to the table to prove Eric lawyer is wrong.

The fact is, ground zero was guarded, so no one could take anything or examine any of the debris. There was no tagging of evidences there was nothing but a fast clean up operation to destroy what evidences that could be found.

Everyone knows that including you Trusters.

Plenty of Firemen saw, and heard explosions in all three WTC, some of you Trusters can deny their credible on the record statements, you all are entitle to your opinions but not your facts.

What are you Trusters afraid of?
We just want a new investigation so we can have the truth.
What were Thermite accelerants doing in the WTC dust? This is a compound that should not have been in the WTC.

Why didn’t any investigator investigate demolition when hundreds of credible eyewitness went on public records stating they saw and heard explosions?

Most people know NIST report is a [color=gold]proven lie proven by A&E.
Most people know the government is covering up a crime.

Some of you Trusters can make all the excuses all you want, but that is all they are, excuses.




[edit on 3-3-2010 by impressme]

Here is a FDNY firefighter that thought there was explosives in the buildings...

Right after the first World Trade Center tower collapsed, at 9:59 a.m. on September 11, 2001, Father John Delendick--one of New York Fire Department's chaplains--ran down a ramp to below the nearby World Financial Center, so as to escape the dust cloud. There he met with Deputy Chief Ray Downey, the head of the FDNY's Special Operations Command. Delendick asked Downey if the jet fuel from the plane had blown up, thus causing the South Tower to collapse. According to Delendick, Downey "said at that point he thought there were bombs up there because it was too even." [1]

Coming from a senior firefighter, this claim is significant enough. But it is even more so because Downey was no ordinary firefighter. Prior to 9/11, he had "commanded rescue operations at many difficult and complex disasters, including the Oklahoma City Bombing, the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing, and many natural disasters worldwide." [2] As the chief of the FDNY Special Operations Command, he'd pioneered techniques for urban rescue and responding to terrorist attacks. "He was so respected, so beloved," according to CBS News, that "his men nicknamed him 'god.'" [3]

Of most importance is that one of Downey's areas of expertise was building collapses. 9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer referred to Downey as a "very, very respected expert on building collapse." [4] Robert Ingram, a battalion chief in the New York Fire Department, has called him "the premiere collapse expert in the country." [5] And Fire Chief Mike Antonucci, who was a best friend of Downey's, said he "was probably the most knowledgeable person on building collapses there was. That was his [hobby], to study building collapses--what affected the engineering of buildings, how they [would] weaken and how he could respond and stay safe." [6]

And this 39-year veteran of the New York Fire Department, who was the most highly decorated firefighter in its history, initially believed the South Tower had come down due to explosives, because the collapse had been "too even." Unfortunately, Ray Downey is not with us today, as he was killed when the North Tower collapsed at 10:28 a.m.

Originally posted by Sean48

The Thread is about a direct lack of proper investigation.

No, this thread is about what constitutes a proper investigation.

The firefighter in question appears to be reading from a manual that is simply a guideline and inferring that it has the force of law, or that variation from the guideline constitutes gross misconduct and I don't think that is necessarily true, but definetly inflammatory.

reply to post by smurfy

He is actually saying that the fireman's manual states that thermite is one accelerant that should be tested for in the case of a steel building collapse! that surely must be one the most important parts of his speech. Thermite is in that manual, yet is one of the most poo-hooed CT ideas. This is a whole new light on it for me.

Pulled out my manual on Fire Investigation - nothing in there about
looking for thermite during fire investigation

Took out my copy of DOT HAZARDOUS MATERIALS GUIDE, which every
fire apparatus has to carry a copy. Nothing in there about thermite.

Conclusion - More nonsense by drooling bat crap insane truther for the
bat crap insane truthers....

reply to post by hooper

Actually there is quite a bit left in permanent storage, what are you looking for?

Actually, lost my post was writing, concerning a book I read recently:

"American Ground: Unbuilding the World Trade Center", from 2003

www.amazon...

(rest of the link is garbage, no good here...this is the ISBN):

ISBN-10: 0865476756
ISBN-13: 978-0865476752

Guy, a reporter by trade, had access in immediate aftermath. He covers the steel, and the move to Staten Island, the inter-departmental rivalries, the 'turf wars' between NYFD and NYPD, the need to find survivors (amazingly, some survived collapse) and, to sanctity of recovering as much Human remains as possible. Even a story about some restaurant food (meat products) mistaken for Human.....

Of course, the 'CT's hadn't yet come out in force, when he was writing his book....maybe they used his truths, and twisted them around, who knows?




[edit on 3 March 2010 by weedwhacker]

Personally, I'd love to see another investigation. I'd like it to address the concerns of the truth-er community.

I'd love to see some attempt to put the explosive theories to rest. In other words, was their any evidence to support that explosives were used in any of the WTC buildings ? Personally, I doubt it.

However, I don't think that it would matter to the truther community if the report came back and didn't support their claims. They would just say that it was a cover up.

Originally posted by impressme
Plenty of Firemen saw, and heard explosions in all three WTC,

Just like you would expect when a multi story building is on fire and collapsing.... it does not mean explosives were used, especially when there is zero proof of any explosives being used!

We just want a new investigation so we can have the truth.

No, you cannot handle the truth.

What were Thermite accelerants doing in the WTC dust?

Nothing, there was no thermite used in the WTC, what peer reviewed paper states there was?

This is a compound that should not have been in the WTC.

Wrong, rust and aluminium oxide is expected in a aluminium clad steel building!

Why didn’t any investigator investigate demolition when hundreds of credible eyewitness went on public records stating they saw and heard explosions?

There was no proof any explosives were used, and as has been stated of course you hear noises that sound like explosions when a burning multi story building collapses.

Most people know NIST report is a proven lie proven by A&E

No, that is a lie - cardboard boxes falling onto a table does not demonstrate the NIST report is a lie.... no matter what you may think!

Most people know the government is covering up a crime.

Wrong, more people think Elvis is alive than believe silly "truther" conspiracy theories!

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
Boy the usual posters got here pretty quick for this thread. Time for the character assassination of Eric Lawyer because they don't want you to think about the facts.

Fact - FEMA and NIST by their own admission did not test for explosives. Remember this is after the '93 WTC bombing.

Fact - There is a mountain of evidence which proves explosions were heard on 9/11.

Fact - Evidence was removed and destroyed which is a serious violation of the most basic investigation procedure.

So fellas continue with your character assassination of Eric Lawyer and keep ignoring those facts.

I commend Eric Lawyer and any other citizen with the courage to come forward!

Those are some pretty bad "facts" once you weed out the real facts:

FACT: NIST and FEMA did not look for explosives because there were none seen or recorded or any evidence in any videos of the collapse

FACT: A mountin of evidence of people hearing explosions is not proof or evidence of any controlled demolitions. You just had TWO 767 impact and explode into TWO of the tallest buildings on the eastern seaboard, and then 5-20 floors-worth of office supplies, aircraft, jet fuel, toxic gases, explosive gases, electrical conduits, etc burning out of control for nearly an hour, and each floor is an acre in size. gee what wouldnt go boom in something like that?

FACT: Evidence was not removed and destroyed. In fact, the most relevant parts of the evidence were collected, sorted, and kept for investigation. What, you expect them to save every single beam from the WTCs?

This firefighter assasinates his character himself, the moment he copy and pastes the same ol garbage taken word for word from every single carbon-copy "truth" site out there. Once you jump in line with such nonsense, prepare for the fall.

Gotta love the standard truster response geared towards all the suckers who believe the Official Fairy Tale:

"This issue was discussed and debunked many times. Here is the link."

Now here's a question. How can an issue be properly discussed and debunked when there was no adequate investigation performed in the first place? You know, it's kind of difficult, if not impossible, to debunk an issue by picking ASSumptions out of your rear end and presenting them as fact.

Originally posted by thedman

Pulled out my manual on Fire Investigation - nothing in there about
looking for thermite during fire investigation

Took out my copy of DOT HAZARDOUS MATERIALS GUIDE, which every
fire apparatus has to carry a copy. Nothing in there about thermite.

Conclusion - More nonsense by drooling bat crap insane truther for the
bat crap insane truthers....

“EXOTIC ACCELERANTS”

This is directly from the 2001 Edition of the National Fire Protection Association NFPA 921 Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations.

19.2.4 - “Exotic Accelerants. Mixtures of fuels and Class 3 or Class 4 oxidizers may produce an exceedingly hot fire and may be used to start or accelerate a fire. Thermite mixtures also produce exceedingly hot fires. Such accelerants generally leave residues that may be visually or chemically identifiable.

Exotic accelerants have been hypothesized as having been used to start or accelerate some rapidly growing fires and were referred to in these particular instances as high temperature accelerants (HTA). Indicators of exotic accelerants include an exceedingly rapid rate of fire growth, brilliant flares (particularly at the start of the fire), and melted steel or concrete. A study of 25 fires suspected of being associated with HTAs during the 1981-1991 period revealed that there was no conclusive scientific proof of the use of such HTA.
Notice how little volume of flame we have, yet a significant amount of molten material that appears to be metal pouring out of the building.

Notice how little volume of flame we have, yet a significant amount of molten material that appears to be metal pouring out of the building.

In any fire where the rate of fire growth is considered exceedingly rapid, other reasons for this should be considered in addition to the use of an accelerant, exotic or otherwise. These reasons include ventilation, fire suppression tactics, and the type and configuration of the fuels.”



NIST denies the existence of molten metal even though we have video and photographic evidence suggesting otherwise. We also have witness testimony from FDNY firemen themselves. Jet fuel and content fires do not produce the temperatures necessary to produce molten steel - that is why NIST has to deny the very presence of molten metal. This is not small stuff. This is a “smoking gun.” NFPA very clearly states melted steel or concrete is a sign of exotic accelerants. Therefore, the debris should have been thoroughly analyzed for exotic accelerants, specifically Thermite.

Now, remember, the investigation is just that…an investigation. We do not need overwhelming undisputable evidence to test for accelerants. It is very routine to test a house fire for accelerants. So, why at the first and only high rise building collapse sites due to fire, was this not done? How do we get safer buildings and solve crimes if we don’t test for the very things that could have led to the collapse?

This is not something to walk away from. We have to stand up together and demand a thorough investigation, following the National Standards, and justice.

Originally posted by Sean48
NIST denies the existence of molten metal\

This is typical of how "truthers" twist the facts. NIST deny there was molten STEEL.... as there is zero evidence for molten steel!

Originally posted by thedman


Pulled out my manual on Fire Investigation - nothing in there about
looking for thermite during fire investigation

Took out my copy of DOT HAZARDOUS MATERIALS GUIDE, which every
fire apparatus has to carry a copy. Nothing in there about thermite.

Conclusion - More nonsense by drooling bat crap insane truther for the
bat crap insane truthers....

I realize being a Faither that you are unable to research for yourself.

So i will help you.

EXOTIC ACCELERANTS”

This is directly from the 2001 Edition of the National Fire Protection Association NFPA 921 Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations.

19.2.4 - “Exotic Accelerants. Mixtures of fuels and Class 3 or Class 4 oxidizers may produce an exceedingly hot fire and may be used to start or accelerate a fire. Thermite mixtures also produce exceedingly hot fires. Such accelerants generally leave residues that may be visually or chemically identifiable.

Opinions, opinions, opinions when are you “OS Trusters” going to learn how to debate?
Where is your proof that there wasn’t any “EXOTIC ACCELERANTS"?

We have proof, sciences does not lie.
Some of you can hand wave and ignore all the credible scientific evidences all you like, but it is not going away.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by impressme]

Originally posted by impressme

It never fails! Every time someone speak out against the OS the same bunch of 911 Trusters, or (OS believers) swarm in here with their insults, ridicule and negative comments,

Translation: I only want to hear my opinion.

yet none of you have brought anything to the table to prove Eric lawyer is wrong.

Except the manual that states it is only a guideline?

The fact is, ground zero was guarded,

Rightfully so.

so no one could take anything or examine any of the debris.

And you know this for a fact how exactly?

There was no tagging of evidences

Because none was found? And I do believe the FBI did go over the site pretty closely once it was established that it was not a rescue zone.

there was nothing but a fast clean up operation to destroy what evidences that could be found.

Fast???

Everyone knows that including you Trusters.

Boy we sure do know a lot, so what is your conspiracy theory about why we lie so much? Government shill? New World Order operative? Military PsyOps?

Plenty of Firemen saw, and heard explosions in all three WTC, some of you Trusters can deny their credible on the record statements, you all are entitle to your opinions but not your facts.

Yes, I realize that I am not entitled to present facts - only truthers have that authority. Like the "fact" that no evidence was tagged, or the "fact" that firemen saw explosions.

What are you Trusters afraid of?

Loosing our nice government debunking checks - I get paid by the lie.

We just want a new investigation so we can have the truth.

Then have at it, what do you want from the rest of us?

What were Thermite accelerants doing in the WTC dust?

Oh, that's a "fact" now? See you can do your own investigation and find your own truth.

Why didn’t any investigator investigate demolition when hundreds of credible eyewitness went on public records stating they saw and heard explosions?

Because millions saw planes crash into them.

Most people know NIST report is a [color=gold]proven lie proven by A&E.

Unless by A&E you mean the arts and entertainment network, nobody has any clue who that is.

Most people know the government is covering up a crime.

You know you would think if that were the case somebody outside of conspiracy website forums would care, but they really don't.

Some of you Trusters can make all the excuses all you want, but that is all they are, excuses.

To each his own.

Erik Lawyer from FF911T will be on TvNewsLies Radio tonight at 8pm ET. So all you deniers, debunkers, trusters, anti-truthers, and blind-faithers can call in and ask all the questions you like.

Though I doubt it will do any good seeings that no matter what evidence you're presented with, you will still deny it, further proving there are ulterior motives at work here.


Link to TvNewsLies Radio



edit to add link




[edit on 3-3-2010 by _BoneZ_]

reply to post by Sean48


"Thedman" has a nasty habit of not paying attention to a damned thing you tell him. He once said the towers were only designed for a 200 mph impact. I showed him that no, they were investigated and found stable after 600 mph 707 impacts. And just now what do I see on another thread, but him claiming again that the towers were only investigated to withstand 200 mph impacts?

My feeling more and more is just to save our energy. We might as well be talking to walls when we can post things that directly contradict them (as you just did by posting the actual fire codes from the NFPA) and he's going to CHOOSE not to pay attention or remember it. I really don't understand how this kind of blatant and repeated disregarding of facts can even be allowed on these forums. This isn't JREF.

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by smurfy

 

He is actually saying that the fireman's manual states that thermite is one accelerant that should be tested for in the case of a steel building collapse! that surely must be one the most important parts of his speech. Thermite is in that manual, yet is one of the most poo-hooed CT ideas. This is a whole new light on it for me.

Pulled out my manual on Fire Investigation - nothing in there about
looking for thermite during fire investigation

Took out my copy of DOT HAZARDOUS MATERIALS GUIDE, which every
fire apparatus has to carry a copy. Nothing in there about thermite.

Conclusion - More nonsense by drooling bat crap insane truther for the
bat crap insane truthers....

Are you saying I am lying, yes or no? then go and register at NFTA as I did, there you will find, as I did under Fire and explosives investigations, "Exotic Accelerants" and amongst others is thermite, so go and look! I think you pulled out the wrong thing.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by smurfy]

Originally posted by impressme
Opinions, opinions, opinions when are you “OS Trusters” going to learn how to debate?
Where is your proof that there wasn’t any “EXOTIC ACCELERANTS"?

We have proof, sciences does not lie.
Some of you can hand wave and ignore all the credible scientific evidences all you like, but it is not going away.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by impressme]

Is that kind of like "figures don't lie" - how does the rest of that saying go now?

Originally posted by smurfy
Are you saying I am lying, yes or no? then go and register at NFTA as I did, there you will find, as I did under Fire and explosives investigations,"Exotic Accelerants" and amongst others is thermite, so go and look!

I posted the excerpt from the NFTA about 5 post above your quoted (above)

post.

All the Faither's closed their eyes and scrolled past it.