Hamas, Terrorists or Freedom Fighters?, page 1
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reply posted on 2-3-2010 @ 10:31 PM by StaceyWilson
I think i just drank a big glass of Perspective Juice !!!
Im the first to abuse Israel about the Crimes it commits!
Have we been duped by the Usa on this whole matter !!
Are israel just a shell of a country now , are they actually enslaved by the U.s PTB ????
Is it a Slave Nation to the U.s Government?
Ive heard corporations make up all these other corporate companies as a front to their shady dealings, could this be a front on a Nationwide scale ??
I mean, Could israel be a front for U.s terrorism abroad in the middle east!, Only ,the world gets to take it out on Israel, who have been enslaved by the U.s and actually have no control whatsoever on anything they do , could they be held for ransom ?, Pimped by the U.s ? Zionism as a Front for U.s terrorism abroad ? Oh my God!!
The effective House Negro that Chuck D and Public enemy used to rap about ?Only its a whole countrys Government sayin Yessa master?
I mean ,its a small as$ country ,punching well above its weight !!!!!
Can it all tie in? I feel something is trying to seek deeper ,
especially when Hillary says things like,,,we cant stop israel from bombing iran !!
I saw pictures of the deaths of school children in palestine and it sickened me, Israeli millitary is made up of U.s weaponry , U.s sells technology to Israel , but could that just be a clever illusion by the U.s . The karma on TpTb will be even worse,

News bullitin people , The Zionists is your Gov, Same Parcel , Jesus Christ ,I heard a bell go off, Perspective is eveything , Maybe the Gov cringe when the nations say , DOWN with ZIONism ..
It makes terrible sense to me , does anyone else see this as a possibility ?
I think the evidence is staring us in the face ,not here ,but EVERYWHERE! if we turn this up, the Us would have to drop away from Israel and then there will be Peace,

With enough pressure , i think there would be peace , i think the arab nations are just paranoid , If Usa pull outta Israel for a good , only for Iran/ Lebanon/Palistinian to attack a Usa -less Israel , Then War is valid on all Arab War Mongerers , and War becomes legit ! Anyone else see my point of view ?


reply posted on 3-3-2010 @ 10:12 AM by Pan7her
reply to post by StaceyWilson


stacey, good thoughts.

i used to be under the impression that israel was americas bitch, but lately i feel that it may be the other way around, especially when you start to delve into who owns the media and how many jews are involved in government and not to mention APAIC and their control on politicians.



reply posted on 3-3-2010 @ 11:21 AM by illusive man
reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


could you define FREE, i would really like to know a Israeli defeintion of FREED
what does Free imply for the people of GAZA inlighten me


reply posted on 3-3-2010 @ 12:10 PM by illusive man
reply to post by tigpoppa


IRA Killed civilians
they just didnt target the goverment


reply posted on 3-3-2010 @ 12:52 PM by December_Rain
reply to post by Sianara


Hamas is a political party with an armed wing. It is democratically elected by Gaza and is the resistance force against occupation. I find only harm in them that they involve little children's, since the younger men are killed or captured by Israel, but again that is no reason to involve children. Apart from that it is fine.

It is a resistance movement same like we have seen other resistance movements in history.

Examples of (Armed) resistance movements: History

Pre-20th century
* Carbonari
* Sons of Liberty
* The Underground Railroad

Pre-World War II
* Irish Republican Army
* The Rising of East Karelians (1921-1922)
* Lwów Eaglets
* Non-Cooperation Movement (1919-1939)
* Filipino guerilla units after official end of Philippine-American War (1902-1913)
* Pancho Villa led a resistance movement/rebellion in Mexico in the early 20th century, as did the Zapata brothers.

World War II
* Albanian resistance movement
* Austrian resistance movement
* Belgian resistance movement
* Bulgarian resistance movement
* Burmese resistance movement
* Czech Resistance movement
* Chinese resistance movements
* Danish resistance movement
* Dutch resistance movement
* Forest Brothers
* French resistance movement
* German resistance movements
* Greek resistance movement
* Italian resistance movement
* Jewish resistance movement, including Jewish partisans and Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee
* Korean resistance movement
* Latvian resistance movement
* Lithuanian resistance during World War II
* Lithuanian, Latvian, and Estonian resistance movements
* Norwegian resistance movement
* Philippine resistance movement
* Polish Underground State and Polish resistance organizations
* Slovak resistance movement
* Soviet resistance movement
* Thai resistance movement
* Ukrainian Insurgent Army
* Yugoslav resistance movements
* Viet Minh

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

Also many people think Hamas favors Al-Qaeda and Sharia Law, which is not true at all. On the contrary they oppose both. In 2008 when Al-Qaeda tried to involve Hamas with them, Hamas openly rejected their offer.

Hamas and al Qaeda-linked group clash in Gaza

Hamas versus Al-Qaeda

Just 1 day old news
Hamas fights al-Qaeda in Gaza

Yes they have been found guilty of committing war crimes in GoldStone report and they should accept responsibility for it and not behave in such manner which hampers their movement credibility.

If the leaders of Hamas were only concerned with killing Israelis, with training suicide-bombers and sending them out to destroy shopping centers, then they'd dedicate the majority of their funding to that purpose. Instead, they build and operate hospitals, schools, soup kitchens, car pools, cell services, and all the other goods, public and private, that organizations without an explicit military arm would provide for the Palestinians if any building was allowed to stay standing long enough to house them. All those doctors and teachers and cooks and bureaucrats who are part of Hamas must be pretty poor members, failing to murder Israelis everyday as they do; one wonders how some of them ever managed to rise to positions of authority without ever having killed an Israeli at all in an organization only dedicated to military objectives.

Extreme? Yes. Intransigent? Yes. Far too violent and stubborn for their own good, or their people's good? Yes. But willing to watch the Palestinian people destroyed utterly to achieve the destruction of Israel? Indifferent to Palestinian suffering? Hardly. If that were the case, why negotiate cease-fire agreements? Why capture Israeli soldiers explicitly to extract concessions and revenues that they cannot extract from the Israelis at the negotiating table? That organization exists precisely because of Palestinian suffering; it fights specifically to alleviate that suffering, as wrong-headed as that is, but desperation and rage are not known for instilling logic.

And as for the "right to live" line, one could just as easily say that Israel could have peace tomorrow if they recognized a Palestinian right to return. That position is not more politically viable than it would be for Hamas, as the duly elected government of the Palestinian authority, to lay down the gun without a settlement freeze or the territorial concessions needed to make a Palestinian state viable.

This claim that Israel's enemies are irrational, blood-thirsty, slavering man-beasts, unable to contain their lust for spilling Jewish blood in the name of Allah is, quite simply, not supported by their behavior.

How do you know what form of Resistance do Paestinian people support? I would like to direct your attention to this article
Whenever there is injustice, there are people fighting it with every possible means. We have seen it so many times before: the oppressed rise up, the oppressor dehumanizes them calling them such names as “terrorists”, “saboteurs”, “death loving” extremists… It is only normal that the oppressor will always lie to justify his actions and its crimes.

What is different in the case of Palestine, is that the Israeli regime has built an effective media and communications networks and campaigns to distort the image of the Palestinian resistance, and that a large portion of the world has believed the Israeli line and hence adopted it.

It is our duty to remember and remind the world that the Palestinian freedom fighter is a man, a woman, like any other. He loves his family. She loves her country. They seek a better future. They are willing to sacrifice everything for the sake of justice and freedom. They waited for the world to lift the blatant injustice that has befallen them since 1948. They expected the world to understand when they took up arms to lift this injustice themselves.

Now, they don’t care what anyone else calls them. They do not seek anyone’s permission, just like any resistance movement. They believe that their cause will be triumphant because it is a cause for justice and humanity. They are merely fulfilling their duty to make the day of justice in Palestine come sooner. So should we.

Source:www.politicaltheatrics.net...


reply posted on 3-3-2010 @ 01:30 PM by Wildbob77
Here is a link to an article with an interview with Mosab Hassan Yousef.
He is the son of a Hamas leader who eventually spied for Israel and eventually converted to Christianity.

Interview

To me, this is the insiders perspective of Hamas

Here's a quote
MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Since I was a child I started to ask very difficult questions, even my family was telling me all the time, 'You're a very difficult person and we were having trouble answering your questions. Why are you asking so many questions?' This was from the beginning, to be honest with you.

But I felt that everybody — and my father was a good example for me because he was a very honest, humble person, very nice to my mother, to us, and raised us on the principle of forgiveness, okay? I thought that everybody in Islam was like this.

When I was 18 years old, and I was arrested by the Israelis and was in an Israeli jail under the Israeli administration, Hamas had control of its members inside the jail and I saw their torture; (they were) torturing people in a very, very bad way.

JONATHAN HUNT: Hamas members torturing other Hamas members?

MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Hamas leaders! Hamas leaders that we see on TV now, and big leaders, responsible for torturing their own members. They didn't torture me, but that was a shock for me, to see them torturing people: putting needles under their nails, burning their bodies. And they killed lots of them.

JONATHAN HUNT: Why were they torturing people?

MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF: Because they suspected that they had relations with the Israelis and (were) co-operating with the Israeli occupation against Hamas ... So hundreds of people were victims for this, and I was a witness for about a year for this torture. So that was a huge change in my life. I started to open my (eyes), but, the point (is) that I got that there are good Muslims and bad Muslims. Good Muslims, such as my father, and bad Muslims, like those Hamas members in the jail torturing people. So that was the beginning of opening my eyes wide.

You can call them freedom fighters if you want but to me when you launch unguided rockets into civilian areas, you're not fighting for freedom.

When you hide behind women and children and then fire at the Israelis, you're not fighting for the freedom of the people that you're hiding behind.

Of course, here is the latest example of suicide bombing Pretending to be injured in a bomb attack and then riding in an ambulance and detonating yourself in the hospital. Hospital Bomber

Here is the latest fatwa denouncing suicide bombing. Fatwa article

Quote from articleA prominent Islamic scholar will use a speech in London to issue a 600-page religious edict, denouncing terrorists and suicide bombers as "unbelievers".

Another quote Ul Qadri says his fatwa, which is aimed at persuading young Muslims to turn their backs on extremism, goes further than any previous denunciation. "This is the first, most comprehensive fatwa on the subject of terrorism ever written," said ul Qadri, who has written about 350 books on Islamic scholarship. He is a scholar of Sufism, a long tradition within Islam which is widely seen as focusing on peace, tolerance and moderation. [...]







[edit on 3-3-2010 by Wildbob77]



reply posted on 3-3-2010 @ 01:41 PM by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by illusive man

Israel has settlements in Gaza and controlled both government and security functions. Then Israel completely withdrew its forces and its settlers form Gaza, without any demand. One sided (which was mistake). Rockets/mortars did not stop, but increased and focused on Israeli territory. Israel declared blockade. And then Hamas took control. Israel no longer occupies Gaza. It does not stop attacks though.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by ZeroKnowledge]


reply posted on 3-3-2010 @ 02:58 PM by illusive man
reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


you still havent told me the Israeli defintion of Free
now come on. Even so Israel left most of Gaza what did they still have control over.


reply posted on 3-3-2010 @ 04:02 PM by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by Solomons


I actually agree that Israeli actions (blockade and punishing general population) cause more radicalization and create more support to Hamas. However when Israel left Gaza it was not so.There was no blockade. The only thing mass produced in Gaza - under freedom fighting government of hams - rockets ,kind of changed the situation.
And area near the border with Israel is now also a battle zone. There are charges, soldier kidnapped, blowing up military posts, sniping of Israeli farmers (surely you are not aware of that, ha?And not only Israelis get shot by the way.check this for example: www.ynetnews.com...) ,terror attacks on crossings. So even if Israel is evil evil evil and does all it does to harm innocent people - they can easily justify what they do , both internally and externally. Hamas being a freedom movement according to OP should cut this vicious cycle of violence and start building their own state and invest in economy and infrastructure without fear of Israeli attacks. On land that they do control fully - which is vast majority of Gaza. Instead they constantly harass Israel and ensure that Gaza is getting worse and worse. Since the worse it is - the better. Not for freedom fighters, but for terrorist groups.
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