Who doesn't want You to have Guns? Frightened Cowards and "The Man"

reply to post by Shark_Feeder


Interesting perspective.

I would certainly like to consider my home as my safe-zone...and would certainly just as much - indeed more in fact - like to consider my home is the safe-zone for others who inhabit it such as my wife, child and any visitors we may have.

Yet - at least for my country (New Zealand) - our Crime Stats seem to indicate the majority of assaults and homicides actually happen within the home, within our close relationships, committed by people we know.

Not so much some random 'bad guy' (or 'bad gal' as the case may well be) out on the street.

Seems to me the greatest *threat* is the face you see each day. The most *hostile* territory is behind your own doors.


Are America's crimestats that different?
Do the majority of assaults, abuse, homicides occur outside of the home and the home environment/family/relationships?

I'm guessing specific crimes such as 'muggings' and the like may well be more likely to happen outside the home however.



Peace.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by alien]

Edited due to ignorance.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by Whine Flu]

Originally posted by endisnighe
SG, how you doin?

These days enisnighe I'd call that a rhetorical question Im surviving my man... surviving.... just like the rest.... well 99% of the population.... and everybody who doesnt live in congress.

You and I both know endisnighe the support for freedom of arms is too great in this nation. I am getting sick to death of the alarmists every time insisting the sky is falling when the exact opposite is happening. Chicago is about to get a beating on its own gun ban. Virginia is laxing its laws.... dont let me get started with the other lax laws.

I know afew folks in Chicago who are rallying to allow guns in their neighbourhoods again. These are good folks, white and black, who just want to protect themselves. I believe we should have the right to arms and I think they should lift the ban. I do find myself frustrated with many on the left insisting that banning guns will solve the issue. It doesnt.....

We do have a gun problem in this nation and you dont have to anti-gun to agree with that fact. The US ranks along with Mexico and Brazil the most in deaths by guns and yet Canada has the same relaxed laws on weapons... so whats different about them? We have such a problem with illegal arms getting through our cities, neighbourhoods.... its a problem we must address on both sides. I doesnt help that we have two of the extremes playing a tug of war when we have this problem. Our youth crimes by weapons are well beyond other nations... we have an issue... its an attitude issue. We need to all understand that while guns are a source of defense for many americans, its also a source of abuse.

We need to find the core of these issues because each year its growing. I am getting sick to death of hearing a news story about how these weapons fall into the wrong hands. We cannot prevent it all but we can by the least address it and come up with solutions together.

reply to post by Whine Flu


Tell you what, you ask people in Cuba, Iran, Yugoslavia, Poland, etc etc etc if they feel that PARANOIA is a good thing or a bad thing. AND THEN, get back to me.

My GOD PEOPLE, look at history.

Learn HISTORY and then open your mouths.

I will listen to you, but FIRST AND FOREMOST, give me one frelling example of this UTOPIAN FRELLLING world that exists.

DAMN!

[edit on 3/3/2010 by endisnighe]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Yeah, his job is to fight the influence of forums just like this in the media."Information czar" not only sounds Orwellian, it most certainly is.

As far as the "sky falling", this is a cop-out argument. Vigilance is needed now to protect our rights. You want proof? Look seriously. I will not do all of your research for you.

I, and many other folks, are not happy with the way things are going in this country no matter which side of the FALSE left/right paradigm is running things.It is a dog and pony show, the international banksters ARE running things.

I would wager a guess that only 15 to 20% of the population actually think for themselves, and they need information to form objective opinions.
You either look and find out which way the wind blows, you simply do not care, or you have invested to much into an idea to admit you are wrong.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


I think I know the whole problem with the violence but a lot of people will think it is too simplistic.

It is the congregation of MASSIVE amounts of people in close quarters.

Plus add in the 2-5 million violent criminals on the social control prison system. The probation and parole system.

Sorry, it is the truth. Make room for the victimless criminals to be placed in jail by releasing the violent criminals.

Not a very good plan. I have a relative that is part of the government social/prison system. She has more violent criminals being released than the victimless prisoners?!

Our prisons need to be imprisoning criminals, not druggies and statute breakers.

See, either YOU or I am beginning to see the VEIL, maybe both.

Edited due to ignorance.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by Whine Flu]

reply to post by Whine Flu


Please, give me an example where PEACE and TRANQUILITY has percevered.

I want to move there now.

Yes, we as a species need to strive for what you are pushing, BUT I will not be run over by that damn tank (Tienanmen Square).

I am an IDEALIST, but I am also a REALIST!

Originally posted by daeoeste
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Yeah, his job is to fight the influence of forums

I assume you didnt bother to read my link to politifact? Why do you continue make such baseless accusations?

Also, the idea... this idea of agents in black suits and ties spending their times on forums opposing pro-gun individuals, I mean where do you fellas get this stuff?? Even if there were disinformation agents... lets just make a small 'if', they'd better spend their time siding with individuals like you to gain your trust and lead your attention away from the real issues.

As far as the "sky falling", this is a cop-out argument.

Its no such thing. You fellas having been rambling your heads of the coming 'gun grab' since Obama was elected and no such thing has happened. I have not seen one proposal restricting your guns in anyway infact I have seen more deregulating of gun laws going on around the US. So why if this is so evident, if the complete opposite is happening, do people like you continue to alarm in this manner? Do you want the attention? Is it anything to smear this administration? Come on you can tell me!

I, and many other folks, are not happy with the way things are going in this country

So because your not happy you insist on spreading alarmist garbage? This is going to help your cause? There are alot of people unhappy with the way things have been going on in this country, but most of them stick to the real issues in their criticisms. All you are doing here is distracting people with false alarms from the real issues and concerns happening in washington now. Your complaining about your gun rights again when the complete opposite is happening nation wide.... meanwhile the government and congress continue to carry out other policies of concern that deserve more attention.

You are doing no good to your cause.

FALSE left/right paradigm

And yet you continue to play into that very paradigm! Look at the sources of the OP. Those bias sources are just more tools of the very paradigm you speak of! And yet here you are insisting otherwise? Come on now.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by Southern Guardian]

Edited due to ignorance.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by Whine Flu]

As a freedom hating, god damning, pinko commie progressive liberal, I support and encourage the owning and carrying of firearms by all americans with the exception of violent criminals and people with severe mental deficiencies. Oh, and children until a certain age and after extensive training in the safe handling and usage of said firearms.

reply to post by Whine Flu


Beer, pffft, my brother stopped over earlier with a bottle of Captain and I had picked up a bottle of Cognac earlier.

I am a little sauced right now. I will still say the same things, just not so eloquently and a little pissed off type ways. Sorry if I offended at all.

I just get an ATTITUDE when drinking. I think I just get MORE defined and MORE obstinate in my positions.

Of course tomorrow I will probably reread this and think I was being an ass!

Ooops.

One thing though. I am from a long line of people that look to history. History is the most IMPORTANT vehicle to see our future. It is the ONLY true measurement from one observation to the next.

Understand my viewpoint?

reply to post by endisnighe


I definitely understand where you're coming from. I came in here rather ignorant and I'm in that mindset where trains with legs seem to make sense to me. Exactly, I don't really know what I'm talking about.

If anything, I was being offensive with my ignorance, so I'll learn a lesson here. I should probably get some sleep and hopefully come back on with more a more coherent mindset.

But yeah, the past can tell us so much about the present and can even tell us what our future has in store. If there's one thing I've learned it's to never, ever turn your back on the past, lest it taps you on the shoulder and punches you in the face.

reply to post by endisnighe

You have a point, as unless things changed, U.S. military surplus arms are sold...and not to american civilians.

I know I checked my
safe and didn't see an AT4 in it, and the last gunshow I went to last weekend didn't have grenades or proximity mines either....lol!

reply to post by Whine Flu


Like I said, I never mean to denigrate anyone's position and sometimes I get a little obstinate. You never once in your comments, that I know of, was/were denigrating to my position.

I enjoyed the conversation and the exchange of positions.

Thanks for the discussion!

Peace and God Bless!

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
I suggest you take a look at this graph

www.nationmaster.com...

It seems that the USA has 9355 more murders by firearms than what the UK does. No where near South Africa (where firearms are legal and have much easier to get to), but a huge number compared to most developing countries

Also

In the United States in 2001, firearms were used in 63 percent of murders, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics National Crime Victimization Survey.The FBI reported that there were 15,980 murders and non-negligent homicides in the United States that year, so about 10,000 people were murdered with guns.

So, countries where guns are legal seem to have a much higher murder rate by firearm than other countries.

Not against your point, but considering the statistics on firearms your argument is pretty weak

Your argument is the weak one. To the person who was murdered it matters not whether it was by firearm, knife, sticks or stones. Fewer people are victimized when they have the ability to defend themselves, not just from street hoodlums either, but from oppressive governments as well. Of course, when the government kills people it's never (statistically) considered murder, even when a gun was used in the process. All those "insurgents" in Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11 deserved it, after all.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Actually, I did read it. Just because I read something, does not believe that I have to believe it.

They are not men in black suits. More like bots reading algorithms. Get enough checks by your name, you get put on a no fly, no buy (guns) list. I will not look for the Rahmmy poo Quote right now. But it HAS happened. To say otherwise is a willful rejection of the FACTS.

I am not some wild eyed alarmist like you are making me out to be, nor am I a sycophant mouthpiece for any party. I can't stand Glen Beck or Chris Matthews. I am a free human being on this earth that is worried about all of this talk of INFRINGING on our 2nd am. rights afforded us by the universe. These peoples rhetoric may(and it looks like it is) be lost on you, but not I.

I am playing into no paradigm but the truth. I do realize that there are OTHER important issues, and THIS IS ONE OF THEM, WHETHER YOU WANT TO FACE REALITY OR NOT.

Come on, now.

Originally posted by Everton
= Reason being is they cause harm/distress/souring crime rates and murder. Being armed to protect yourself is a silly idea, just use common sense and avoid gang infested streets at night. I dont see what good can possibly come from owning a weapon.

All the things you said can be accomplished without guns.

Areas with gangs are not the only places bad things can happen.

The right to a gun was meant to own a gun to protect yourself and your property and in case of attemted tyranny.

Why don't you provide evidence that murder rates would go down without guns instead of injecting a bunch of stereo typical anti gun liberalism.



[edit on 3-3-2010 by constantwonder]

I certainly agree, guns are necessary and important deterrents to crime from all levels. While statutes and the like are not real law but crime itself, their repeal, on the surface is a good sign. But, repealing some "laws" (so called) makes it seem that others (like registration) are valid and stand and it encourages people to buy and register more weapons which helps to identify those people to the state. People who may have previously only held unregistered weapons. Or in other words such half measures encourage people to be more trusting of the state and to raise their hand and say to the state, "here I am".

Remember, nothing is what it seems to be. Black is white. Until there is a total repeal on anything to do with registration (a criminal practice of the state) it isn't clear what this represents.

reply to post by ReelView


Those who fail to study history, are doomed to repeat it.

How many time do we need to see countries institute registration, and then turn around and seize those very arms?

When someone does the SAME thing over and over again expecting a different outcome, THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY!