Who doesn't want You to have Guns? Frightened Cowards and "The Man"

reply to post by Everton


Research American history. It is because of our right to bear arms that we have never had enemy soldiers on our land. There is no army in the world that has more guns than the American people and that makes them think twice.

Originally posted by Pax et Intellectus


In the UK we don't have guns, yet there are less crimes per capita, and less murders by capita than the US. So is it that in order NOT to carry a gun, U.s. citizens need to be made to feel safer by the government?

The U.S. government, nor the police, have any obligation to protect someone from normal every day crime. The responsibility of protecting oneself lies on the shoulders of each individual citizen.

Keep in mind that in the U.K., you also have less freedom than we do here.

Originally posted by bsbray11
I was encouraged seeing this on the local news:

Virginia House Pass Bills to Relax State Gun Laws
According to the Richmond Times-Dispatch, the 20 gun-related bills include lifting the ban on buying more than one gun a month, allow guns to be taken into bars, emergency shelters and locked in cars.

Can't think of anything better than drunks with guns....ugh

See I own a gun...ONE...for self defense. How many do I need for protection? Yes we have a right to guns but why do we need an M-16 or twelve handguns?

IMO of course

-Kyo

reply to post by vor78


OK, I can understand the the threat of actual violence in the US may be higher than here in the UK.

By the way I have to disagree about what you say about guns. Knives and baseball bats , if used on you with agression can cause death, as do guns, but you can run away from them. Martial Arts I would not class in the same boat either. Being a Wing Chun, Long Fist and JKD T practioner , I am taught to imobalise and run. Not defend and keep going. In UK law, I can defend myself...to a point....If I then chase someone down the road and batter them. then they get let off and I go to prison. There is such thing as reasonable force.

I still think that an M16 , with 4 magazines , in the wrong or right hands, is still more lethal and more damaging to society by a long shot.

I would further add to this that yes, some crime is comitted by nutters, but most is comitted by desparate people, people who have fallen into drugs, abusive families. So in a situation where you are being robbed in your home, although the criminal may take all your cash, you could still end up shooting someone and wounding them for life, crippling, destroying there life or worse killing them. I mean if I had a gun and was scared to death , in that situation I would shoot. Thats why I'm still a little out on the argument. I still think Guns should be banned. But yes, you need better protection so you feel safer.

So,,,,,,should I be reconsidering booking a holiday in the US? Always wanted to ride a horse around the Grand Canyon Area.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by Pax et Intellectus]

reply to post by Pointman111


If its one thing i hate people saying Is britain is OR becoming a police state. Saying garbage like that comes from someone who hasn't been to the country and does not no what the UK is all about! If there is a police presence in area's its for a good reason like in america.

Are you an american? i only ask as most american's think the same.
To what i see and hear on media its america thats FAST becoming a police state with the Obama's administration
But always remember don't believe everything the media says 'and yes i have been to america that was 5 years ago and i seen no difference in the way its policed or the presence of police .

reply to post by KyoZero


Why does anyone need more than 1 car, or to be able to buy more than 1 book a month?

Why does someone need a car that can do 150mph?

The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with a "need".

Question: Where does the government get its power to own M16's?

reply to post by brainwrek


Less freedom in what way just curious?

reply to post by galloways


Being the world most surveilled nation doesnt exactly go far in supporting your statement on how free the U.K. is.

Doesnt really support your "its not a police state" comment either.

Originally posted by Pax et Intellectus
I am that man who is frightened of people with guns.

I really do seem to miss the point. Why exactly do you need to carry a gun?

Its seems to me that owning a gun is spawned from the fear that you might be attacked. Are we not meant to be working towards a world in which we feel so little fear that the need to protect ourselves becomes redundant.

I can't help feel that the U.S. is WORSE off for having guns . Guns do a few things, one of which is kill other people, one of which is kill animals and the other is to look pretty on a wall as an ornament.

A guns sole purpose is to kill. Would every one preffer to live in a world that does not involve killing people or inciting violence? Or would people rather carry guns?

Could someone offer a bullet point response as to why you feel you have the right/need to carry guns. Is it out of fear and the need to protect yourself? Or just the ego trip of having a gun? I do genuinly struggle to see anything positive about a society with guns.

As several have stated in this thread, it is not fear that drives this but rather wanting to be prepared should something horrible happen.

Please consider:

I have never had a house fire, but I have at least one smoke alarm and a fire extinguisher on every floor of my house.

I have never had an automobile accident, but I carry collision coverage on my vehicle.

I have never gone to the emergency room or spent the night in a hospital, but I have medical insurance.


We all prepare for things that we hope will never happen. Carrying a handgun is the same.

edit for fat fingers

[edit on 3-3-2010 by Doc Gator]

[edit on 3-3-2010 by Doc Gator]

Originally posted by galloways
reply to post by brainwrek

 

Less freedom in what way just curious?

1 surveillance camera for every 14 citizens for starters.

How about restrictions on speech that may offend muslims?

Need more?

Originally posted by brainwrek
reply to post by KyoZero

 

Why does anyone need more than 1 car, or to be able to buy more than 1 book a month?

Why does someone need a car that can do 150mph?

The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with a "need".

Question: Where does the government get its power to own M16's?

2 cars for neccessity. I have a wife...we both have a car...if one person buys a second car then hey great. A book is hardly like a gun

I am not saying you shouldn'y be able to I just don't see the neccisty. Like I said a book is a far cry from a gun

just IMO of course

-Kyo

reply to post by Pax et Intellectus


If they're running, chasing them with a baseball bat is no different than shooting someone in the back. In both cases, you're probably going to prison.

Otherwise, lethal force is lethal force. There have been two incidents in my hometown in my life of bar fights where one guy was hit in the face ONCE. The first one was dead before he hit the ground. The second split his skull on the sidewalk and died a day or two later. The point is, dead is dead. There is no philosophical difference, at least in my eyes, between using deadly force with a firearm and using deadly force with another weapon. Those guys weren't any less dead than if they'd been shot in the head with a .45.

I wouldn't let any of this stuff stop me from visiting. As I've said before in this thread, the vast majority of the United States is as safe as anywhere in the world IF you avoid the major cities (and most areas of them are reasonably safe themselves). I simply think there is a fundamental difference regarding the attitudes towards preparedness for a hostile encounter between our two cultures. I do not expect that I will ever need a firearm for self defense, but I'd rather have it if that situation ever arises. The only thing I've ever used one for is a little hunting and a little hobby shooting at cans and paper targets. Still, I fully support a person's right to carry one for self-defense if they feel it is necessary.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by vor78]

reply to post by brainwrek


No, I do understand. But again the source here (Apaty from hunting food) is still fear. And I don't want to live in a world that is so full of fear that you in the US have to carry guns...or anyone else for that fact.

- It is a right, guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution
RESPONSE - Just because its a legal right, it does not mean that it is right.

- A firearm is a tool, nothing more, nothing less.
RESPONSE - A deadly one at that. It is a gun, which is a lot more than a tool. Its a tool of fear, violence and death. I can't agree on that point.

- It's a tool of many uses, including self defense against 2 and 4 legged predators, defense against a tyrannical government, and it provides a means of feeding ones family.
RESPONSE - 2 legged well we should have better faith in a society , at least thats what we should be working towards. Animals , I understand some very remote parts of the US may have dangerous animals. So in a rural farm environment as pest control I agree, that is an exception though and not a rule. Defense against a tyrannical government. No. Us Brits learned that the countries under our empire that fought us...we fought back harder. Those that worked with us and pushed for democratic change won their freedom. OK. Us brits killed a few hundred people while countries were pushing for freedom...but shame on us for that...shame on us.

- Guns are the tool of freedom. They gave you freedom (assuming you are an American), and as has often been said, the 2nd Amendment protects all other rights.
RESPONSE - I can't agree. Psychologically, you own a gun from fear. Which means you are a slave to fear. Violence , as often proven in world history, has led to an escalation of evils. Talking, discussing, debating, finding a way forward through words has also succeded in many many cases. This is what I feel is freedom. I think if you own a gun , you are enslaved to the fear.

'- The fact that every Swiss citizen had a military grade battle rifle in their home is one of the primary reasons Hitler didn't invade Switzerland.
RESPONSE - Not true, the Swiss partly funded the Nazi party, due to most of Germany's secret finance being held there...don't bite the hand that feeds you is the historically accurate reason. And, the Swiss natural resouces being supplied to Germany pre WW2.

- Guns, besides being an awesome hobby that teaches children responsibility and safety, are also a sound investment.
RESPONSE - I would not want to see children engaged in such violence and destruction. Yes, I was a cadet and training on the SA80 and others with live ammo. Yes it as fun. However, the concept of what a gun is...a killing machine...is not fun. Thats not the most positive argument. Responsibility and safety can be taught in 1000 different more positive ways than guns. Charity Volunteer work, church group, conservation projects, working, helping out in the house. and so on.

- As the old saying goes... "it's better to have a gun and not need it than it is to need a gun and not have it".
RESPONSE - Its better to not have a gun....and never have to need it....because a society can resolve it issues without violence. Guns, due to strict border control and import and export rules are very very rare in the UK. Hence we don't have a huge problem with gun crime....unless its black on black . Im sorry to use that term but gun crime is very ethnically linked here in the UK between certain cultures.....which have come about due to 1960's and 70s racism and lack of opportunity and education for certain groups in the UK...which again forgive us for. We have come a long way in the oast 40 years.

reply to post by brainwrek

The term police state term is taken out of context


How about restrictions on speech that may offend muslims? So you have no restrictions on any speech at all any where ? That may offend ? And to whats been dished out by the bush administration and Obama's administration i'd say its the america goverment that are coming down harder with ther secret surveillance on citizens

Peace

[edit on 3-3-2010 by galloways]

Originally posted by KyoZero
I am not saying you shouldn'y be able to I just don't see the neccisty.

There is no necessity. One is generally enough, but like any other product, if people like one, they want to try others. Call it the quest for perfection. That's how most people end up with dozens of firearms in their collections.

Pax/Do Gooders, you make me sick. (I hope you dont get my pets sick) You need to reincarnate somewhere else. Because on earth right now, if you look around, (I can tell you haven't looked at much of this thread) only the strong survive, Plants /Animals. Guns are smart.
I just worked 2 jobs and played paddy cake for an hour and a half, changed the twins dippers, im tired, I dont want to be hong con fuey/skilled. And I dont expect my wife to be either. A gun eliminates strength/skill, and my need to fear for her/them when im not at home. Why do you have a house? Afraid your going to get cold/wet? You live in to much fear, you dont need a house.

Putz.

Tell me how well that UK toy knife ban is working for you, since you forbade the peasants firearms back at Dunblane.

"Britons never never never will be slaves" -- until NuLabor, anyway, and the MultiCult.

Originally posted by Everton
You really think having everyone armed will help pave the way to peace in societies? No it wont. Dont complain when death rates are on the rise, how can we possibly start working together to make the world safer for future generations if guns are being dished out like sweets? Picture this, a young man purchases a gun for self defence purposes later down the line he watches alot of films that warp his mind or his pushed over the edge by depression/bullying, he takes his gun and unleashes his anger and warped mind onto unsuspecting victims. You guys are smart people and would be very trustworthy with a gun but just remember others aint as sound minded and can be influenced very easily.

reply to post by ThomasPen


I can see you are angry about that. But we are allowed to challenge each others thoughts and behavior without resorting to a post like that. A simple ...I think we need to keep guns because . . . would surfice, thank you.

You give me an impression that you have not really analysed this debate. Are you too upset to deliver a good point or argument?

You don't need to be a kung fu master to deter crime . Try a big gravel drive, really noisy, easy to hear people coming onto your land. Motion senor security lights that light up your property and make it visible, secuarity alarm with panic button in certain rooms links to a local police switch board (You can buy these at most B&Q's (Hardwarestores i think you call them) . CCTV systems.

reply to post by ThomasPen


Only one more point that I missed.

"Only the enlightened survive"

reply to post by Pax et Intellectus


If you came to my home the only thing you would have to fear is the overwhelming attention of my cat and coon hound.

Proud owner of an AR15 and an S & W 459.