Who doesn't want You to have Guns? Frightened Cowards and "The Man"

reply to post by stephanies-chase


I assume you also want to get rid of cars since no one can make a car buyer responsible too correct?

How about we have a responsibility test, that more to your liking?

Originally posted by Rybo666
reply to post by Ahabstar

 

I'm not too sure how you can compare these as if they were remotely alike!? Cars are a requirement, guns are not!

Granted i don't think cars should have been invented but they are a way of life now everyone owns one.

What if it gets to the point that everyone owns a gun? Then were in real trouble. Cars were not invented as killing machines! Guns were!

Really? If everyone owns a gun you honestly think that we will simply start shooting each other? LOL I'm sorry, but that logic is fruitless. There is so much FACTUAL data that shows that areas where gun ownership (BY RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE) have much lower crime rates. Period.

If everyone ended up owning a gun only the criminals would be foolish enough to use them in violence and they would have to face responsible people who ALSO have them. That's all that would happen. We wouldn't get some massive armageddon event where people just start randomly killing people just because everyone now has a gun! LOL

Originally posted by Sean48


It only make sense, that the need to carry weapons is an attempt to

compensate for a man to make up for his "shortcommings".

A real man should be able to stand up for himself, and his family, without

the aid of a weapon. If a gun is needed to feel "Manly" , perhaps the

problem is deeper, and medical help should be sought.

My .02

This could possibly be the dumbest post ever made on ATS.

Congrats sir.

reply to post by stephanies-chase


Who's fault can it possibly be besides the gun owner? Is it really that hard to store a gun in a gun safe if you have children in the home?




[edit on 3-3-2010 by vor78]

reply to post by stephanies-chase


You see. The argument of your child finding the gun and shooting themself just isn't a strong argument for banning guns. You have the RIGHT to choose not to because of that fear. But because YOU are afraid that your child would shoot themselves does it give YOU the right to determine that I can't own a gun now? See where I am going with that?

Also, the stats may seem high but it does NOT mean it happens often. Believe me, I'm a caring man and ever time I hear about a child that needlessly dies from a tragic gun accident I feel sick inside too. However, you cannot dictate to the populace how they should lead their lives to try and stop those events. That is a dictatorship. If that is your ideal country then you should consider moving to one of the many dictator lead countries on this planet and see whether it works more to your taste. (want to point out that I have transitioned into speaking to everyone who thinks guns should be removed as I kept writing. When I say you and your I am speaking not directly to stephanies-chase but to all who believe this.)

Originally posted by vor78
reply to post by stephanies-chase

 

Who's fault can it possibly be besides the gun owner? Is it really that hard to store a gun in a gun safe if you have children in the home?




[edit on 3-3-2010 by vor78]

Now you're speaking of something completely different. The difference between a responsible gun owner and one who is NOT responsible. On this I can completely agree with you.

Originally posted by brainwrek

Originally posted by Sean48


It only make sense, that the need to carry weapons is an attempt to

compensate for a man to make up for his "shortcommings".

A real man should be able to stand up for himself, and his family, without

the aid of a weapon. If a gun is needed to feel "Manly" , perhaps the

problem is deeper, and medical help should be sought.

My .02

This could possibly be the dumbest post ever made on ATS.

Congrats sir.

I must second this statement. Indeed, it is now among the most illogically reasoned posts I have read to date. What kills me is that there are millions of WOMEN gun owners too! Do they want to feel 'womanly' by owning or gun or do they simply want to feel SAFE that they now have that last line of defense? LOL

reply to post by brainwrek


Well nobody is debating that cars should be illegal...now that would be just silly don't ya think? Listen I see where you are coming from and in all honesty I've had a burning desire to go to a shooting range and learn how to shoot a gun. Honestly one of the top ten things i wanna do before i die. Like I said at first, i'm not sure where I stand on this issue. It just makes me sick hearing about kids shooting themselves on accident and kids bringing guns to school.......I have kids so can you blame me for that?

reply to post by stephanies-chase


Silly? No more silly than banning or placing more restrictions on an inanimate object such as a firearm, yet people seem to think thats a good idea.

I have a kid too, which is why I make RESPONSIBLE choices when it comes to storing my guns.

Guns are not the problem. People are.

Originally posted by vor78
reply to post by stephanies-chase

 

If you leave a firearm out in the open where a small child or unauthorized user can find it, it isn't the gun's fault. Its your fault for being irresponsible. A firearm is a deadly weapon and should be treated as one. If you have children in the home, it should be stored in a manner as to be inaccessible to those children.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by vor78]

If you have a swimming pool and you have not taught your children to swim and simply put up a fence around it, you are at fault when your child drowns. A "swimming culture" seems like it is in order here!

If you try to lock out the chemicals under the kitchen sink rather than teaching the youngsters that it is not such a good idea to partake of such toxic stuff, you might end up with a dead child. Probably more often than a firearm accident.

If you leave water in a bathtub with small children around, you are contributing to a far greater cause of death in small children. Does that mean that we should not take bathes?

If you drive a car, you are contributing to the greatest cause of accidental death that has ever occurred. it matters not how responsible you are or how well made that new baby seat is. Fact is, you probably know someone or are related to someone that has died or has been seriously inured or maimed in a automobile. This does not mean that we should keep our cars securely locked in the garage!

In my home, I have told my children and their friends that they may inspect, handle and shoot my firearms anytime they wish. The only rule is that they come and ask me and I will immediately stop what I am doing and put all of my attention to them. This stimulates their curiosity while I am present. The liberal way of locking and hiding does not work as they will still be curious.

This of course does not remove personal responsibility from me, what it does is empower me with a tool that is available to all of you. It is called "Teach Your Children Well" I would rather have my children know how to swim, drive, identify poisons, shoot and handle firearms responsibly than not.

Molon Lebe

Originally posted by dariousg

Originally posted by brainwrek

Originally posted by Sean48


It only make sense, that the need to carry weapons is an attempt to

compensate for a man to make up for his "shortcommings".

A real man should be able to stand up for himself, and his family, without

the aid of a weapon. If a gun is needed to feel "Manly" , perhaps the

problem is deeper, and medical help should be sought.

My .02

This could possibly be the dumbest post ever made on ATS.

Congrats sir.

I must second this statement. Indeed, it is now among the most illogically reasoned posts I have read to date. What kills me is that there are millions of WOMEN gun owners too! Do they want to feel 'womanly' by owning or gun or do they simply want to feel SAFE that they now have that last line of defense? LOL

Allow me to chime in and 'third' your sentiment.

"A real man should be able to stand up for himself, and his family, without
the aid of a weapon."

That logic is flawed beyond belief. What is a 'real man' supposed to do if there's 3 or 4 'real' thugs breaking into his house, and they have 'real' guns?

At the risk of a courtesy violation, I feel compelled to say that the person who posted that statement is a consummate idiot.

Originally posted by stephanies-chase
It is true that crimes happen all of the time but always being afraid is no way to live. Sure, I don't like the thought of someone coming in my house and harming my family but I'm not holding a gun...for the just in case scenario. How about this scenario. I buy a gun so I can protect my family. My small son finds my hiding place and accidently shoots himself. Say what you will but this sh*t happens all of the time. Or hey how about this. Angry teenager gets made fun of at school....steals his father's gun and shoots the whole school up. Sound familiar? You can be in danger and wish to God you had a gun...or you can have a gun and create danger. This is an argument that can go on forever............and I'm sure it will.

It isn't a matter of living in fear. I am not "constantly afraid" I will be attacked or that my family will be harmed. It is about recognizing a possible threat and being prepared. To me it is the same as having extra canned food, water, blankets, and a gas fire place in the house. If the snow takes out the power I can survive. I'm not living in constant fear of a power outage. However, I recognize that their is a probability of it happening. So, I prepare.

To prevent my child from accesing my hand gun I keep it in a safe. The only way to open the safe is with a finger print. It has to be mine or my wife's finger print. We are the only ones able to access the safe. I think it cost about $200.

CDC Numbers
According to the CDC only 125 kids

reply to post by Vernshot


I absolutely agree with you. If you are going to have any dangerous object in your home, you need to take all steps available to avoid accidents, including educating your children about them.

This is something a friend sent me a long time ago. I think it sums up how I feel about the issue of gun ownership pretty well.

Reason vs. Force
by Marko Kloos

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunken guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the muggers potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst.

The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

I am that man who is frightened of people with guns.

I really do seem to miss the point. Why exactly do you need to carry a gun?

Its seems to me that owning a gun is spawned from the fear that you might be attacked. Are we not meant to be working towards a world in which we feel so little fear that the need to protect ourselves becomes redundant.

I can't help feel that the U.S. is WORSE off for having guns . Guns do a few things, one of which is kill other people, one of which is kill animals and the other is to look pretty on a wall as an ornament.

A guns sole purpose is to kill. Would every one preffer to live in a world that does not involve killing people or inciting violence? Or would people rather carry guns?

Could someone offer a bullet point response as to why you feel you have the right/need to carry guns. Is it out of fear and the need to protect yourself? Or just the ego trip of having a gun? I do genuinly struggle to see anything positive about a society with guns.

reply to post by Pax et Intellectus


- It is a right, guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution

- A firearm is a tool, nothing more, nothing less.

- It's a tool of many uses, including self defense against 2 and 4 legged predators, defense against a tyrannical government, and it provides a means of feeding ones family.

- Guns are the tool of freedom. They gave you freedom (assuming you are an American), and as has often been said, the 2nd Amendment protects all other rights.

- The fact that every Swiss citizen had a military grade battle rifle in their home is one of the primary reasons Hitler didn't invade Switzerland.

- Guns, besides being an awesome hobby that teaches children responsibility and safety, are also a sound investment.

- As the old saying goes... "it's better to have a gun and not need it than it is to need a gun and not have it".

Think about that....

Need I go on?

[edit on 3-3-2010 by brainwrek]

Originally posted by Pax et Intellectus

A guns sole purpose is to kill. Would every one preffer to live in a world that does not involve killing people or inciting violence? Or would people rather carry guns?

I would love to live in a world where violence did not exist. Unfortunately it is not in human nature to live in such a manner. Look through history and you will see that man has never lived in complete peace.

While I live my life with all intentions of doing no harm, I will not let another harm me or my family. I do not start fights, I do not initiate confrontations, and I will leave a situation/location to avoid pointless drama. However, if someone wishes to continue to escelate a situation I will use the necessary measure of force to end the situation. I will not be the instigator but I refuse to be a victim.

Originally posted by Pax et Intellectus
Are we not meant to be working towards a world in which we feel so little fear that the need to protect ourselves becomes redundant.

Ideally, yes, but take a look at any violent crime stats and its quickly evident that there are those out there who would seek to harm others intentionally.

From a self defense standpoint, my argument is pretty simple. I believe that everyone has a right to self defense and that a firearm is simply a tool designed for that purpose. Its primary advantage is that it puts everyone, from the strongest to the weakest, on a level playing field, which is as it should be. It creates force parity in the event of a hostile encounter.

Otherwise, I do not view a firearm as any different philosophically from any other weapon that might be used with deadly force. A gun, a knife, a baseball bat, etc... even a trained person's fists and feet...if employed as a weapon, from a moral perspective, they're all the same to me.

reply to post by davesidious


You sir, are an idiot, put down the bong and get up from
your zafu. If you want to comment on our constitutional rights
over here accross the pond then have the good graces to read
the document first. You might discover that our right to keep and
bear arms is there so that we can ensure that our government
doesn't abrogate our rights beyond what whe're able to stomach.
And we're fast approaching that point. You are offensive to me in
your cowardice, your willingness to bend over and take whatever
your nancy state decides to foist on you. (yes I did say Nancy)
Your superior attitude is rank with the stench of the servile.
All of you euros are sheep led by the nose and I am NOT a herd
animal.

YouSir

reply to post by MikeNice81


So (Im new to the whole debate here) is it so that America is such a violent place that you have to carry guns, otherwise your going to end up mugged , or beaten up?

In the UK we don't have guns, yet there are less crimes per capita, and less murders by capita than the US. So is it that in order NOT to carry a gun, U.s. citizens need to be made to feel safer by the government?