Who doesn't want You to have Guns? Frightened Cowards and "The Man"

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posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 05:30 PM
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I was encouraged seeing this on the local news:


Virginia House Pass Bills to Relax State Gun Laws

Virginia House lawmakers have pushed through a series of bills making it easier to buy and carry guns.

According to the Richmond Times-Dispatch, the 20 gun-related bills include lifting the ban on buying more than one gun a month, allow guns to be taken into bars, emergency shelters and locked in cars. In addition, new legislation would allow the names of applicants for concealed handgun permits to remain undisclosed to the public unless the applicant gives written consent for disclosure of the application.


blogs.findlaw.com...


It seems that in response to fascists' (like Obama's advisor Sunstein) increasing assertions that individuals do not actually have the right to possess firearms, a blatant attack on the Bill of Rights as every single one of us has been raised to understand it, coupled with all the other attacks on common sense and liberty we have seen from the Federal Government in recent years, more down-to-Earth and cool-headed politicians are prevailing in protecting some of our rights after all.


Who doesn't want us to have access to firearms?

Cowards that are frightened of firearms, probably because they have no experience around them and don't know how to use them.

And of course, fascist federal leaders.


In Britain not only are you not allowed to possess hand guns, you can't even carry certain knives that are longer than 6 inches.

And what has Britain got to show for all of this Brave New World legislation?



The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

The figures comes on the day new Home Secretary Alan Johnson makes his first major speech on crime, promising to be tough on loutish behaviour.


www.dailymail.co.uk...



Handgun crime 'up' despite ban

A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.

The research, commissioned by the Countryside Alliance's Campaign for Shooting, has concluded that existing laws are targeting legitimate users of firearms rather than criminals.


news.bbc.co.uk...



And THIS is what we see when gun laws are laxed:


Marta crime rate falls in wake of gun law

Violent crime lower following law permitting legalized carry of firearms on mass transit.
Today the Atlanta Gun Rights Examiner brings you a story you are not going to see anywhere else.

The Georgia General Assembly passed HB 89 in 2008, which made criminal prohibitions on carrying firearms on public transportation, in restaurants that serve alcohol, in state parks, and in wildlife management areas inapplicable to Georgians possessing a firearms license. HB 89 took effect on July 1, 2008, and many predicted mass bloodshed as a result. Nowhere was the controversy so acute as the city of Atlanta and its public transportation system.


www.examiner.com...



Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia --- Crime Rate Plummets

The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes.

The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982.

And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998.


www.freerepublic.com...



So in light of this kind of information, and I am telling you people, guns DETER crime, and knowing your would-be victim is packing definitely DETERS violence and crime, who are the people arguing the contrary?

Refer to the thread title.




posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 05:41 PM
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No country should have the public being eligible to access firearms in my opinion. Reason being is they cause harm/distress/souring crime rates and murder. Being armed to protect yourself is a silly idea, just use common sense and avoid gang infested streets at night. I dont see what good can possibly come from owning a weapon.


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posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by Everton
No country should have the public being eligible to access firearms in my opinion. Reason being is they cause harm/distress/souring crime rates and murder.


Prove it.

Did you even read my post? No, I don't think you did.



Being armed to protect yourself is a silly idea, just use common sense and avoid gang infested streets at night. I dont see what good can possibly come from owning a weapon.


Fortunately for those of us with a little more sense, our founding fathers were not so naive. Guns are not going away any time soon. Especially from violent criminals, who will possess guns no matter WHAT the laws are.



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 05:48 PM
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That's because our founding fathers didn't have morals that we share today. They acted on basic insticts, can you imagine a future in which our children have to walk the streets knowing the majority of people around them are armed? It'll just inflict fear and worry in most citizens, at the end of the day i cant imagine any other reason to carry a gun other than to cause harm.


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posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Everton
No country should have the public being eligible to access firearms in my opinion. Reason being is they cause harm/distress/souring crime rates and murder. Being armed to protect yourself is a silly idea, just use common sense and avoid gang infested streets at night. I dont see what good can possibly come from owning a weapon.


You're right. It's a silly idea for you to have a gun. That makes ME nervous when I break into your house at night. I would feel much safer knowing you definitely don't have a gun, since I DO have one. If you busted in the room while I am busy raping your wife, knowing that you couldn't possibly have a gun puts my mind at ease and lets me bust a nut without worrying about you shooting me. Moreover, I know you will wet your pants when you see that I have one and will then give me all your money and your daughter.

Vote against guns. They make me and my henchmen feel unsafe.



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 05:56 PM
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I suggest you take a look at this graph

www.nationmaster.com...

It seems that the USA has 9355 more murders by firearms than what the UK does. No where near South Africa (where firearms are legal and have much easier to get to), but a huge number compared to most developing countries

Also


In the United States in 2001, firearms were used in 63 percent of murders, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics National Crime Victimization Survey.The FBI reported that there were 15,980 murders and non-negligent homicides in the United States that year, so about 10,000 people were murdered with guns.


So, countries where guns are legal seem to have a much higher murder rate by firearm than other countries.

Not against your point, but considering the statistics on firearms your argument is pretty weak



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by Everton
That's because our founding fathers didn't have morals that we share today. They acted on basic insticts


I don't think many people, especially people who know their history, are going to agree with you that our founding fathers did not have morals. You are talking about people like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Patrick Henry.


can you imagine a future in which our children have to walk the streets knowing the majority of people around them are armed?


Yeah, I can imagine it, and it would be wonderful. Look man, are you going to give me a bunch of "I'm scared of guns" emotional tripe or are you actually going to look at the stats that PROVE firearms deter violent crime? You seem to fall right into the "frightened coward" category of my post. You're just proving my point.


It'll just inflict fear and worry in most citizens, at the end of the day i cant imagine any other reason to carry a gun other than to cause harm.


You need to go out to a shooting range some time and actually figure out how to use a gun and get over your own fear of it. Like millions of Americans, I was raised around them and there is no fear in them for me. Just because you own a gun, do you think you would suddenly become a murderer? Do you think you would suddenly be tempted to shoot innocent people? Is that what kind of person YOU are? If not, then why do you seem to assume everyone else WOULD do this? If you even live in the US, do you not realize that you are probably around people who are carrying concealed weapons in public on a daily basis? Are you afraid of the POLICE who carry around guns? Why don't they just go around shooting people for the hell of it? You need some common sense about this. Not a lot of fearful emotional tripe. Like I said, you only serve to prove my point perfectly. You are AFRAID of guns. Criminals aren't. And THEY don't have a problem using them against people like you, when it comes down to it.


cow·ard

a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.


dictionary.reference.com...


Read the 4 news articles I posted above.

Being a coward in the face of crime, does not prevent crime from happening.

If you don't step up to the plate to protect yourself, the police still have to, and you can bet your ass they're going to be carrying firearms. They would be stupid not to. And by refusing to take the same responsibility for yourself you are not only failing to exercise a crucial constitutional right, you are handing over your personal responsibility to your Nanny State like a frightened child.


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posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by Everton
That's because our founding fathers didn't have morals that we share today. They acted on basic insticts.


Oh god...
what morals do we have now? Sit back and die? And speak for yourself, survival will never go out of style for... you know, smart people. So have fun dieing defenseless with your superior morals.



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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You really think having everyone armed will help pave the way to peace in societies? No it wont. Dont complain when death rates are on the rise, how can we possibly start working together to make the world safer for future generations if guns are being dished out like sweets? Picture this, a young man purchases a gun for self defence purposes later down the line he watches alot of films that warp his mind or his pushed over the edge by depression/bullying, he takes his gun and unleashes his anger and warped mind onto unsuspecting victims. You guys are smart people and would be very trustworthy with a gun but just remember others aint as sound minded and can be influenced very easily.



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
So, countries where guns are legal seem to have a much higher murder rate by firearm than other countries.

Not against your point, but considering the statistics on firearms your argument is pretty weak


The numbers you cited in your post, for one thing, were not adjusted for the US's greater population. Also the stats for that website were collected from 1998-2000.

Read this from the BBC:


But the report suggests that despite the restrictions on ownership the use of handguns in crime is rising.

The Centre for Defence Studies at Kings College in London, which carried out the research, said the number of crimes in which a handgun was reported increased from 2,648 in 1997/98 to 3,685 in 1999/2000.

It also said there was no link between high levels of gun crime and areas where there were still high levels of lawful gun possession.

Of the 20 police areas with the lowest number of legally held firearms, 10 had an above average level of gun crime.

And of the 20 police areas with the highest levels of legally held guns only two had armed crime levels above the average.


news.bbc.co.uk...


Now read that, think it over, and tell me where your argument is that LEGAL gun possession contributes to increases in "gun crime."

It specifically says, in the case of the UK, "there was no link between high levels of gun crime and areas where there were still high levels of lawful gun possession."



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by Everton
 


There are more guns than people, people are going to get guns, if you set up anti-gun laws, only law abiding citizens will be defenseless, criminals don't usually buy guns from stores anyways, its all black market and underground trading. So criminals can do whatever they want knowing average joe wont be able to do anything (See every chart and link above)

Seriously... the evidence is all there.



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by Everton
You really think having everyone armed will help pave the way to peace in societies? No it wont.


Look around you. "Peace" in the way you envision it, with no violent criminals carrying guns, is nothing more than a pipe dream at this place in time and history. It's a naive fantasy.


Picture this, a young man purchases a gun for self defence purposes later down the line he watches alot of films that warp his mind or his pushed over the edge by depression/bullying, he takes his gun and unleashes his anger and warped mind onto unsuspecting victims.


Picture this. Some naive individual with no experience with guns at all goes online and starts making up fanciful stories about how the world will end if everyone has a gun.

Trust me, if someone takes his gun out on the street shooting innocents, and another person out there is also packing, that nutball shooter is going to have a real run for his money. And if EVERYONE on the street was carrying a gun? You would HAVE to be freaking crazy to go out trying to shoot any of them! It would be a death wish!

Somewhere on the order of 25-50% of citizens in this country (USA) already own firearms. 270 million of them. Question -- are you dead yet?

[edit on 2-3-2010 by bsbray11]



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 06:11 PM
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Yer your real smart Everton has the idea ever come to mind that humans are naturally violent? if so bravo.
Criminals are violent, take away the guns then they will use knifes or there fists or any blunt object that criminals can get there hands on.
But hey when someone is raping you or beating the S*** out of you I guess you won't be needing a weapon.


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posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


So 10,000 gun deaths out of 300 million privately owned guns. Not too bad. 42,116 deaths from car wrecks in 2001 out of 226 million cars.

And the UK is a land mass smaller than the state of Florida.

Statistics are fun.



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by Everton
 


It's too late for the US, unfortunately. The number of guns on American streets is far too high to be removed. Most European countries, where the fixation on guns and the sense of insecurity is far lower, don't suffer from this rampant desire to arm themselves. Also the level of policing in Europe is far better than in the US, with European officers paid more and expected more of, where people can expect to be protected from any intruders (who are far less likely to exist, due to the decent level of social protection people can expect, and if they do exist, are far less likely to have a gun).

The US is a lost cause as far as it comes to guns - give 'em to everyone. It won't make it a safer place to live, but it won't make it any more dangerous. It's already more dangerous than any other developed country, with far more people in prison. Throwing guns into the mix won't help, but it sure won't hurt. It seems the second amendment was a self-fulfilling prophecy, where the very act of codifying it ensured it would always be needed. Countries where such a right was never ensured haven't suffered from the purported dangers the 2nd amendment serves to protect against, but don't have the ridiculous level of firearm-related murder the US experiences.



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


You are leaving out some important statistical information there Oz. What is the Per/Capita.

OP, you did miss one possibility, criminals.


Thanks to the other poster using literal license I came up with that one.

Also, anyone using statistics for models must either have a control group or use the same model. Such as the OP did comparing before and after in the UK.

You CANNOT use different models to do comparisons.

Otherwise you bring the whole AGW techniques into play.



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 06:18 PM
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It only make sense, that the need to carry weapons is an attempt to

compensate for a man to make up for his "shortcommings".

A real man should be able to stand up for himself, and his family, without

the aid of a weapon. If a gun is needed to feel "Manly" , perhaps the

problem is deeper, and medical help should be sought.

My .02



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 06:19 PM
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i for one will be the first to say i should never have a gun for the sake off others. however their are alot of people responsible enoughe to own guns legaly and they should be alowed . criminals will get guns regardless of the laws even if you ban guns completely its not exactly hard to make them you could throw together a shot gun in like half a hour if you have the ammo which can also be homemade. but if some ones gonna kill not having a gun isnt going to stop them.



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by Sean48
 


Sean, you REALLY have to take Roland the Gunslinger off as your avatar if you keep getting in these threads.


edit to add-

Here you go Sean, I made Roland more synonymous with your beliefs.





[edit on 3/2/2010 by endisnighe]



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 06:21 PM
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It's just my opinion I haven't come on here to cause a stir, i just dont see how being in possesion of a firearm is in any way going to advantage the owner. I've seen alot of youths who get ahold of them just to look "cool" and for street cred but then later on life end up turning it on civilians. I live in the U.K and have spent time in many rough areas and have rarely heard of guns being used in self defence, every time it crops up in the news it's about some poor guy losing his life because some neaneanderthal has got his hands on a weapon and is more than likely to weak to fight with his fists, but i know it's alot different in the states and i will research this.





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