DNA PROOF Jews NOT Semites!!!

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by downisreallyup

 

Hmmm, yes the TWELVE tribes of Israel. Perhaps you have failed to recognize that the Middle East is the cradle of civilization - where ALL human beings originated. How are you so sure that the varying races scattered around the globe do not constitute the 12 tribes? How are you so certain that YOU are in the right tribe??? A bit arrogant and presumptive methinks!

Oh, and thanks for the diversion, obfuscation and dithering. There is nothing more refreshing that being called "racist" when I am not even referring to a race, but a religion!

[edit on 2-3-2010 by kozmo]

There was not one bit of diversion on my part, but simple correction to your erroneous assertions. I refer you to the prophecies of Hosea, which should be well studied by anyone wanting to truly understand Israel and its relationship to the world.

Firstly, indeed the Northern Tribes of Israel were scattered into every nation of the earth, becoming as "seed" for blessing upon those nations that followed the simple principles of righteousness. In so doing, they lost all identity as Israelites, and became as gentiles in their behaviors.

But, also the Southern Tribes of Judah, otherwise known as Jews, were not so scattered, and they did not lose their identity as Israelites. They were able to maintain this identity, and later, when the Khazars became converts, they joined the ranks of the Jews (Judah).

If you want to establish yourself as a part of the re-established northern tribes of Israel, then go right ahead... just make sure you start living like one and acting like one, as defined in the New Testament.

By the way, the "cradle" of civilization as you like to call it can only be traced to the point of where Noah's Ark landed, for that is the most recent common point of origin for all people.

Also of interest, Noah being an albino definitely opened the genetic door for the different skin tones to form, since Noah's albinism meant that his children had no genetic imprinting of melanin production, and was very flexible according to the environmental influences. Then, the grandchildren would have locked those traits in, making them more-or-less permanent.

Israel is not the only place where these Askenazi caucasian 'jews' by faith, have caused recent bloodshed and violence with more to come.
The original homeland of these huns - who adapted judaism - is Khazaria.
Google it and read Arthur Koestler - assassinated by Mossad.
These 'jews' who occupy Palestine are perfectly aware that the writing is on the wall and have been preparing a second and possible fall back position for some time.
Khazaria was - before it was overun a thousand or so years ago unleashing its population across eastern Europe and onwards - in the caucasus and southern Russia.
The Israelis obviously have plans to resurrect this nation using Georgia as a kernal and expanding outwards - just as is being done in the middle east, as Askenazis use violence to extend the borders of Israel itself.
Many of the population including leading politicians and military in Georgia are dual Israeli/Georgian citizens. It is now a neo israel.
These are the folk behind the recent illegal attack on the sleeping people of South Ossetia and the murder of many of them
They are pouring more arms into Georgia now for another attack on South Ossetia and by proxy, Russia. No doubt that, as it the case of Iran, they want to drag the USA into a confrontation with the Russians for their own nefarious purposes.
The attack on South Ossetia had one purpose. It was to drive the citzens out by military terror. To ethnically clean the small territory for jewish expansion and the first step in recreating the original Khazaria. And it will be the first step. They want more and they will kill and maim and expand until they are stopped or they get the lot.
Fortunately the Russians know the score. Very little research will show you that the Soviet Union was not a Russian construct. It was a Khazar 'jew' construct.
These Jews created the state and ran it for many years as one mass gulag for the Russuan people.
When the Russians started to break free from their enslavement and bondage - the jews started running to Israel claiming persecution.
Their final act was to plunder the freed Russian under the jewish Yeltsin in complicity with jewish western banks.
The criminal oligarchs who stole the wealth from the Russian people were virtually all 'jews' and they are being protected from the Russians who want to hold them accountable for criminal activity, by Israel and its puppets, the USA and Britain.
Watch the scene in Georgia as well as Israel if you want to see the total barbarism of the 'huns' posing as semites. For 'huns' they are for all the 'judaism they may have adopted.
Brutal, ruthless, merciless and greedy.

Originally posted by bigyin
I've not read the article yet but I do notice a lot of chatter here about being able to convert to being Jewish.

In the past I've had flak for saying that that cant be true. If being Jewish is a race, and not a religion which I considered it to be, then how can anyone convert and change their race ? It's simply not possible.

Can anyone advise me please ?

Being Jewish is at its core a tribal identity. Its not a race. Its a tribe.

Thats why thousands of Egyptians were adopted into the tribe after the Exodus and why Moabites, Edomites and others were later adopted.

Of course those adopted in or their offspring are going to eventually intermarry with those of Semitic ancestry. This is why the Semitic markers are so prevalent.

[edit on 3/3/10 by MikeboydUS]

so since Semite referes to semetic and the laguage of Hebrew the Jews of Isreal are Semites....

so ur saying only the palestinians are the only semites? which is not true and Jews aren't? then did the jews of the time of Jesus just jump to being muslim? no they still reside in that area.....and of course there are going to be jews with spanish background.....the whole world is mixed

that still does not mean anything...the jews of Israel are Semites

Can i ask some questions without being jumped upon by the trolls, please?

Bare with my ignorance:

Am i right in thinking the proof is that genetically the jewish 'clans' spoken of are not from the Middle Eastern area that is the genetic home of the 'Semite' peoples?

Are there any 'clans' of the Jewish people that have not been tested, which may undermine these results (whom may have a genetic link to the Semites) ?

Does the Jewish claim on this Semite land depend upon a genetic link to the land?

There are arguments here that being Jewish isn't about genetic ethnicity. This sounds right to me - people marry into to it, or are converted all the time. However, this misses the point. As has been said a few times, this new DNA research says that none of the tested subjects had a genetic link to the Semite province. So, if the Jewish claim to this provence does not depend upon a real ancestral link to the land beyond that in recorded history, then there is no problem - if the claim is simply an article of faith - that they were given the land by God, regardless of those already living there, then this research has no baring upon their claim (as morally dubious as it may sound).

However, if their claim is dependent upon an ancestral, DNA lineage beyond recorded history and beyond the lineage of the Palestinians etc., then there is a problem: There would appear to be proof that this is not so.

Doesn't this research appears to show that this land was once conquered and taken from it's native people by the ancient Jewish people?

If this conquest is part of the Jewish legend - that God 'gave' the Jews this land, then it merely goes to prove it. But if they claim it because they are it's first inhabitants, then that claim is debunked.

But even in that scenario i'd urge anyone throwing stones here to look just a little into their own heritage.
Those who claim America to be their land - was it not stolen?
Those who claim Australia to be their land - was it not stolen?
The Indians, SE Asians and true South Africans - has your land not been stolen and returned only after bloodshed and misery?
Have not most parts of the world been conquered and re-conquered throughout history if not by far flung 'alien' races, then by their own neighbors?

It strikes me that if Israel should be handed over to the true genetic Semites, then America should be handed over to the Native Americans, and Australia to the Aborigines (to the small number of these races that have been spared by the invaders)...

I'm certainly not partisan - not defending the status quo - i'd like to see all of these things happen. Maybe then there'd be some peace and quiet.

Israel may be the smallest country in the middle east but New York is the largest city in the most influential country in the world.

Maybe you can have a chat with your cousins living there.

Originally posted by Odessy
reply to post by Josephus23

 

lol yeah, the Jews, the smallest country in the middle east are persecuting the rest of the surrounding peoples...

uh.....

I guess as much as anyone else is...

reply to post by McGinty


Studies I have read show the majority of Jews in Israel to have Semitic ancestral markers. Most Palestinians and Israelis are more closely genetically related than any other groups of people on earth.

This information is not used to lay claim to the land.

The religious aspect isn't universal. Many among the early Zionists were not religious but in fact communist. A form of religious Zionism rose in reaction to this later, but Judaism wasn't the excuse for the claim to the land.

Instead its been more of a cultural and historical claim than anything.

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

 

Apparently you didn't read the article very carefully. I NEVER claimed that the "Jews" weren't "Jewish", I claimed that they're NOT Semites!!! Judaism is a religion, NOT a race! The article spells that out very clearly. ALthough, I'm sure that the "Jews" appreciate your attempt at diversion and obfuscation.

Really? To be a Jew, you have to be a descendant of Abraham/Isaac through Jacob. How is that not a specfific bloodline? I can practice Judaism untill I am blue in the face, but that will never make me a Jew because I am not a descendant of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob.

I also didn't read in the article that they found the bones of Noah's son Shem, who is the Father of all semites. It shouldn't surprise anyone that millions in the middle east have the same 'shemite' DNA, but his means nothing, because it wasn't simply Shem's descendants that were promised the land of Israel, but Abraham's through Isaac and then Jacob whose name was ISRAEL.

Quote
Really? To be a Jew, you have to be a descendant of Abraham/Isaac through Jacob. How is that not a specfific bloodline? I can practice Judaism untill I am blue in the face, but that will never make me a Jew because I am not a descendant of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob.

This is utter piffle.
The Khazar/ashenazi who presently occupy Palestine, adopted Judaism some 1000+ years ago. They are some 90% of todays 'jews'.
There is no such requirement and in fact jewishness, I have been told, is inherited from a mother.
Interestingly I read just the other day about the family background of the present Greek PM, jewish by birth on this criteria.
No wonder Goldman has been in there fiddling the people and figures.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by McGinty

 

Studies I have read show the majority of Jews in Israel to have Semitic ancestral markers. Most Palestinians and Israelis are more closely genetically related than any other groups of people on earth.

This would makes sense, but it means the conclusions of the new research are very wrong.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
This information is not used to lay claim to the land.

If ancestral heritage plays no part in the current Jewish claim to the land, then this research is a moot point in that respect.

So what is their claim; that they may not have been there first, but their God said they could have it? Or that they once conquered it, so it's theirs forever?!

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
The religious aspect isn't universal. Many among the early Zionists were not religious but in fact communist. A form of religious Zionism rose in reaction to this later, but Judaism wasn't the excuse for the claim to the land.

Fascinating! i certainly wasn't aware of this. It puts U.S. championing of the religious Zionists in a new and much clearer light: Of course they must have supported, if not catalyzed the creation of the religious Zionists as way of combating the spread of communism through Israel. This regions problems suddenly a lot more sense.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Instead its been more of a cultural and historical claim than anything.

By historical you mean academic/political, rather than genetic?

Thanks for your reply

I always wondered what happened to the followers of George Lincoln Rockwell after he was shot. Now I know - they're posting on ATS. Of course now you will bombard me with "Just because we think Zionism is wrong doesn't make us Nazis!" Sorry, I don't buy it. The only difference I see between some of you and Himmler is opportunity. I'll take my chances with the IDF. Is America a tool of Israel? God, I hope so!

"The only difference I see between some of you and Himmler is opportunity. I'll take my chances with the IDF. Is America a tool of Israel? God, I hope so!"

Oh great then the Arabs say kill the infidels and innocent people get killed.



As an aside.

Do you support the atrocious treatment of the Palestinians since the inception of Israel. Well, as another ATS (t)wit once said two wrongs do not make a right.

But to return to the thread. Do you think that all genetic Jews are Semites?

Just a thought



[edit on 3-3-2010 by Tiger5]

Originally posted by kozmo
Well folks, here it is - Proof the Jews are NOT Semites!

So, now that we can conclusively determine that the Sephardic Jews are Spanish and the Ashkenazim Jews are Central/Eastern European, I am wondering exactly when the Jews are going to return Israel to the Palestinians, the TRUE Semites. Also, will these posers now stop with the "Anti-Semite" crap, please!?!?

Just think of the implications of this. A group of people have laid claim to a land that they have absolutely no connection to whatsoever. And the majority of the world was complicit in displacing the rightful settlers of this land, the Palestinians who have lived there for millenia, in order for a people whose ancestors had NEVER set foot upon the land to live there. Kind of makes you wonder...

a) there are many tribes. the ashkenazi and the sephards are the two that are known and recognized.

b) pretty much all the land that is Israel was actually purchased under the plan laid out by Ben Gurion in order to ease the declaration of an independent jewish state. Nobody took land from anyone.

c) what is a Palestinian? There is no such ethnicity and that is a complete fabrication of the people who are against the formation of Israel.

d) you need to get more education on the matter, you come across as a moron. amusing, but thoroughly ridiculous at the base of it.

e) read a history book instead of a hate site now and then.

i find the whole idea of someone being jewish just because their mother is jewish is laughable. by that same token i am jewish because my mother is (for the same reason as me) jewish because my grandma (for the same reason as me) is jewish just because HER mother was jewish, when ALL of us have no time for any religion and have no association with judiasm whatsoever. not only do we not practise judiasm, we've actively criticised many of its practises as we do with all the main religions because we, to be blunt, think they are ridiculous.

then if this dna evidence proves that judiasm is not a race then there is even less strength to the claim of there being any jewish heritage passed down. and forgive me for wondering why it can only be a jewish mother who has inherently jewish kids. by that bizarre approach if i have kids with a non-jewish-descended woman then our children will not be jewish even though i supposedly am just because i'm a man. that, in my opinion is as ridiculous and illogical as all of judiasm (and christianity and islam too) in my book, if you'll excuse the pun.

it's as blatantly untrue to call someone like me jewish as it is to call me scottish, because on one side of my family i have a GREAT, GREAT grandma who is scottish. even if my parents were scottish i would be ENGLISH because i was born in ENGLAND, but the fact is my parents and my grandparents are all english anyway and on one side of my family the english heritage goes much further back. anyone with 2 brain cells could conclude that i am english and am not scottish and by the same token i am not jewish just because perhaps the torah (or whoever made up their rules) likes to think so.

now you'll have to excuse me whilst i get back to my bacon sandwich.

The sooner we ALL come to the realization that we're all ONE race 'human' and stop entertaining 'differences' of color, religion, heritage etc...the better off we'll all be, and THOSE who put the idea of 'difference/separation' in our heads (much like the 'dog/owner' reference). THEY will be the ones who lose.

But society through years of conditioning most likely will go on through time believing that some are better than others...humans, what a silly silly life form believing itself to be superior species!

your race is not your nationality.

and to those who go on about only one race "humans".

well, we have shared traits and as a species we are indeed one. But we have divisions within our species that are blatant and no matter how much one world/one love stuff you want to pile on that, it wont change.

A black man is a black man, an asian man is an asian man, a causcasian is a caucasian. There are obvious differences and these are denoted as racial qualities and characteristics.

But by all means, cover your eyes, plug your ears and sing kumbaya til the cows come home.

It is our diversity and our differences that keep us strong. Hegemony and homogenized species produce weakness and failure. I'd rather that all got weeded out naturally, like how the neanderthals died off or the "hobbits" in Indonesia disappeared.

adapt or die.

Also, blamin Israel is to become a puppet mind of the fascist Islamic regimes and organizations that pound us with their drivel and propaganda daily.

I don't know why we even listen to them anymore.

Originally posted by Renegade Bison
i find the whole idea of someone being jewish just because their mother is jewish is laughable. by that same token i am jewish because my mother is (for the same reason as me) jewish because my grandma (for the same reason as me) is jewish just because HER mother was jewish, when ALL of us have no time for any religion and have no association with judiasm whatsoever. not only do we not practise judiasm, we've actively criticised many of its practises as we do with all the main religions because we, to be blunt, think they are ridiculous.

then if this dna evidence proves that judiasm is not a race then there is even less strength to the claim of there being any jewish heritage passed down. and forgive me for wondering why it can only be a jewish mother who has inherently jewish kids. by that bizarre approach if i have kids with a non-jewish-descended woman then our children will not be jewish even though i supposedly am just because i'm a man. that, in my opinion is as ridiculous and illogical as all of judiasm (and christianity and islam too) in my book, if you'll excuse the pun.

it's as blatantly untrue to call someone like me jewish as it is to call me scottish, because on one side of my family i have a GREAT, GREAT grandma who is scottish. even if my parents were scottish i would be ENGLISH because i was born in ENGLAND, but the fact is my parents and my grandparents are all english anyway and on one side of my family the english heritage goes much further back. anyone with 2 brain cells could conclude that i am english and am not scottish and by the same token i am not jewish just because perhaps the torah (or whoever made up their rules) likes to think so.

now you'll have to excuse me whilst i get back to my bacon sandwich.

I completely agree.

I find it a complete 'slap in the face' to a persons other ancestors/family and a total disregard/disrespect to another belief the individual may have and /or was brought up with. It also makes anyone espousing this belief come across as if they're insecure.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
Goof Ball... Where in the Article does it say these Jews are not JEWS????????

I love goof balls!

At least goof balls seem to understand the difference between JEWS and Judah.

Originally posted by KOGDOG
Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite. (Eze 16:3)

Use the above data as a basis for your DNA arguments...

What about this...
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Three crosses still stand today. The sphinx sits in front.

Peace

Originally posted by Mr Poopra

Originally posted by Josephus23
Being a Jew is not a religion, but an ethnic group. I should know...why? Because i'm a Jewish Christian. According to myself, as well as other Jews, i am still a Jew even if i believe in Jesus Christ.

Bah! Utter crap! Just because YOU and your fellow Jews claim it doesn't make it the least bit true. Thank you so very much for illuminating my argument to it's brightest! Almost a dozen articles have been posted throughout this thread that furiously debunk your claim and actually, and factually, explain it - in detail. Yet you continue to deny because of what YOU believe.