DNA PROOF Jews NOT Semites!!!

page: 24
76
<< 21  22  23    25  26 >>

log in

join

posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 11:06 PM
link   
reply to post by TrueTruth
 


Man....

I gotta tell you. I at least expected you to formulate a coherent argument.

That was a bunch of jibberish.

Did you type all of your favorite words and hope that something would just stick?

Seriously, you make kind, conscientious Jews look like drooling troglodytes.

Good Luck man. Seriously, I am not kidding.




posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 11:12 PM
link   
reply to post by Josephus23
 


here's a new fallacy for ya - the 'i have jewish friends' fallacy.

you have any idea how many guys i know who have black friends but still said outright (in priavte) that they weren't going to vote for obamma because they just didn't think the country was ready for a black president?

gimmie a break.

this is the most worn out line of apologist nonsense ...

you can perfectly well have jewish friends and be a bigot.

maybe you are, maybe you're not. but that line is artarded and meaningless in every way.

now buzz off.



posted on Mar, 9 2010 @ 11:20 PM
link   
reply to post by TrueTruth
 


So has this turned into a who can get in the last word thing?

You just pulled the straw man argument.

My statement was "I have plenty of Jewish friends who abhor the barbaric practices of the state of Israel"

My statement was not the apologist straw man that you tried to pull out, and poorly pull out I might add.

If you choose not to actually quote me, at the very least paraphrase me correctly.

Are you ever going to stop digging the hole you have yourself stuck in?



posted on Mar, 10 2010 @ 04:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by dalan.
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 



They don’t want to test it, they want to stir the pot. What they don’t seem to understand is if you convert to Judaism you’re a Jew, Same if your convert to Islam, that makes you a Muslim....


No you are not, that is the most ridiculous thing that I have ever heard. By your logic, if I convert to voodoo, I must be a black man then right?


that is not his logic you damned fool where do you get voodoo makes you a black man? islam=muslum judeism=jew voodoo=voodooist not black man nazism=nazi you don't have to be white to be a nazi. though it don't make sense to be a black nazi



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 01:13 AM
link   
reply to post by ashanu90
 


that was mean of me to call you names however you completley fail to see his logic and it is frustrating to see such ignorance



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 07:19 AM
link   
reply to post by kozmo
 


Also, the Ashkenazim refers to Ashkenaz one of the descendants of Japhet, the brother of Shem. As we can read in Genesis 10:2f: The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech and Tiras. The sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah.

Ashkenaz was also the name of the part of Germany where these "Jews" come from, so "Ashkenazi Jew" can be translated German Jews. They are related with Jewish blood through two Jewish women who lived in Rome more than a thousand years ago.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 08:34 AM
link   
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


"Jewish Blood" does not exist.

One practices Judaism if they claim Jewish inheritance.
It has not one single thing to do with blood or race.

This is propaganda pushed by the state of Israel.

Please see this thread where I break down what it means to "be Jewish".

Link to.... who IS a Jew?



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 08:55 AM
link   
What I find interesting is the constant referral to the religious texts that claim that so and so was the son of so and so who was married to such and such... *sigh* I'm sorry, but those "texts" are unreliable. I have enough experience with "edited" text books to recognize that history is easily manipulated, or even changed outright, to suit any given agenda. Just take a look at the portrayal of WWII for a recent example. According to "history books" I have seen several differing accounts of the events that either led up to or transpired during the war. Earlier I had even provided evidence of the Talmudic teachings and how they have been manipulated to coincide with and support the zionist agenda.

These arguments are called red herrings and are designed to distract from the original argument. I have also witnessed a compendium of straw man arguments and non sequiturs. Consider this post my apology for not acknowledging them and playing along. There is absolutely no merit in doing so as the proposed premise is flawed.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 09:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


"Jewish Blood" does not exist.

One practices Judaism if they claim Jewish inheritance.
It has not one single thing to do with blood or race.

This is propaganda pushed by the state of Israel.

Please see this thread where I break down what it means to "be Jewish".

Link to.... who IS a Jew?



In some sense it does exist. The genetic markers are there.

At one time long ago, the Tribe Of Yehuda and Kingdom of Yehuda existed in a uniform manner.

This concept is far older than modern Israel and has been around for over 2000 years.

The religious aspect or Judaism is closely interlocked to this tribal existance.

Your right though it is not a race, its a tribal identity.



[edit on 12/3/10 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:08 AM
link   
Jewish blood does indeed exist, just as DNA exists. The reason why "modern Jews" use their maternal genealogies, and not paternal genealogies as was common for the Biblical Hebrews, is that they don't descend from Abraham, but from Noah's grandsons of Japhet's leg, meaning they are not Shemites, but Japhetites in their paternal genealogies. However the Ashkenazim descend from one of two female Jews who lived in Rome hundreds of years ago, so their "Jewish blood" can be found in their mitocondrie DNA, but they don't have Abraham's Y-chromosomes, meaning they are not Jews by blood using traditional paternal genealogies.

This means that they are not directly related to Abraham, and certainly not Jacob whose name is Israel. They are all but procelutes. The greek word is προσήλυτος/proselytos, and the equivalent in Hebrew is גר/ger. It means foreigner or sojourner, alien or stranger. Throughout the Torah Jews (or simply "one of your own people") are told to be just towards strangers, since the Jews were once strangers in Egypt. However they are always mentioned after the Jew, as if they have lower caste than Jewish men, then children, then women (of "your own people" and then Gers/Strangers, or like one would say back in the days: "Jews first, then proselytes". In a modern sense, procelute has become identical with Jewish convert. In the "blessings and curses" of the Torah as can be read in Genesis 28, Jews are told that if they donot keep God's commands, the strangers will take over their land and turn themselves into strangers:

Genesis 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: [...] 43 The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low. 44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.

It was legal for a Jew to lend money to procelutes and take intrests, but not to children of Abraham:

Deuteronomy 23:19 Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury : 20 Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury ; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury : that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

[edit on 12/3/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:38 AM
link   
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


These books that you quote are meaningless when stacked up against the science of modern genetics.

Passing down cultural heritage through maternal lineage is simply cultural.

What you are dealing with is information warfare. This is all propaganda and not one shred of evidence confirming what you have typed is backed by science.

If you would click on the link that I provided to you then you would see the words of an Israeli Christian Dissident who explains in great detail the controversy that belies Jewish heritage or Israeli citizenship.

I do not care if their "heritage" is passed down matrilineally, because their mothers can marry and convert, but yet be black, white, latino, etc....

Judaism is a religion and not a race.

Please provide links to back your claim, and could you please link articles based on the scientific method and not religious texts.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 11:58 AM
link   
reply to post by Josephus23
 


Don't tell me you havn't heard of mitochondrial lineage?

Its basic information learned in a college biological hereditary class.

Mitochondrial DNA is maternally inherited. Y chromosomal DNA is paternal.

While I don't agree with some Neo's assertions, like all Ashkenazim not having Yehudim genetic markers. Some don't, but most do. Even if someone converts it is highly likely they or their offspring will marry someone carrying Yehudim markers.

And it is true that someone can be black, brown, yellow or white and carry the markers. This is the difference between a phenotype and genotype. The phenotype is observable traits. Thats not who you really are. Your genotype is the real you. Thats why the whole idea of different races is in actuality nonsense, we are all one human race.



[edit on 12/3/10 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:19 PM
link   
reply to post by Josephus23
 


The word Jew is first found in the Book of Daniel, and is used to discribe a small group of Israelites of Judah tribe (Jew - Judah) returned to Israel from the captivity in Babylon to rebuild the Temple. The rest of the Hebrews spread out accross the world.

The main argument Israeli Jews use these days giving strength to their claim of the Land of Israel, is the Bible and God, since God promised the children of Abraham the Land of Canaan, later further limited to the children of Isaac and his son Jacob. However, the "Jews" who live there today have no right according to the Tanakh they use, of inheriting the Land. Since it is limited to the Shemite sons of Abraham, through his son Isaac and his grandson Israel.

According to their own Law, the Torah, only sons of Israel have direct right of inheritence:

Genesis 35:10 God said to him, "Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel. " So he named him Israel. 11 And God said to him, "I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will come from your body. 12 The land I gave to Abraham and Isaac I also give to you, and I will give this land to your descendants after you."

This is the exact phrase "orthodox Jews" use to give them the right to the Land of Israel. Descendants after Israel have a right to the Land. The Land of Israel belongs to the male descendants of Israel (Jacob). Since there are no sons of Israel present to claim the Land, the brother of Jacob should have it, since he had no daughters, meaning Esau, but since there are noone of Esau present and no other brothers to Jacob, Ishmael shall have it, since he is the brother of Isaac and the closest relative of Jacob, and at the same time have a right to inherit Abraham, although Sarah refused to allow Ishmael inheritance. The indigenous people of the Land are the sons of Ishmael, the Palestinians, and they have a greater right to the Land of Israel than any foreign Japhetite claiming to be a Jew.

Numbers 27:8 "Say to the Israelites, 'If a man dies and leaves no son, turn his inheritance over to his daughter. 9 If he has no daughter, give his inheritance to his brothers. 10 If he has no brothers, give his inheritance to his father's brothers. 11 If his father had no brothers, give his inheritance to the nearest relative in his clan, that he may possess it. This is to be a legal requirement for the Israelites, as the LORD commanded Moses.' "

Israel is a clan of twelve (+1) tribes, it is not a religion. It is a people and a nation.

Like I have explained Palestinians can claim their right of Israel, atleast the lands of the kingdom of Israel, and be good to the converts who are all Jews, meaning they only have a right to the Land of Judah.

For fun, draw a line along the borders of Judah according to the Book of Joshuah and see what it looks like....

[edit on 12/3/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:29 PM
link   
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


I think were close to the same page here, but somewhat different.

The majority of Jews in Israel as Sephardim and Mizrahim, all with the same Yehudi markers. Most of the Askenazim, something like 2/3, are also supposed to carry the markers.

The Levites and Kohanim are among these populations and carry unique markers.

Now here's the kicker, the Palestianians are closely related to the Yehudi.

I would say there is a good chance they are all Israelite.

You presented the conflict of Israel and Judah. I think that is a clue.



[edit on 12/3/10 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:32 PM
link   
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


Of course I have heard of mitochondrial lineage, but according to the law of return established by the Israeli Knesset, in order to "qualify" for being considered a Jew one must meet one of several conditions.
One of those being that the mother can convert.

That voids the entire mitochondrial lineage debate.

This has happened an untold number of times over thousands of years.

Cultural heritage and actual DNA lineage are TWO TOTALLY SEPARATE ISSUES.

Period.

Genetic markers are correlations.

Correlation does not imply causation.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:36 PM
link   
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


Science please sir.

Your religious texts are nothing but personal metaphors, in my humble opinion.

These books can say whatever they would like to say, but yet the information cannot be validated.

Science. Observe. Hypothesis. Test. Evaluate. Re-test if necessary.

Repeatable. Everything must be repeatable to be validated.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 12:48 PM
link   
reply to post by Josephus23
 


Like I say, the orthodox "Jews" in Israel claims the right to Israel, not via UN mandate or scientific DNA mandate, but through Biblical mandate, where they see Israel as the true owner if Israel. However, they are not by far descendants of Israel, but like I said, the leg of Japhet, Gomer and Ashkenaz.

Like I have explained, the "Jews" of present day Israel, have no right to the Land Biblically, or by their own Law, in the light of modern DNA science, since none of them are sons of Abraham, and much less children of Isaac or Jacob/Israel, and I have quoted their own Law, the Torah, using the same texts they use, only I bring in genetic inheritance, rather than cultural/religious inheritence, or religion. If I believe in the same things as Bill Gates, does that make me potential heir to his billions? No, we have laws for that, and they won't help me, whether I lived in this or that manner, it has to do with blood and relations.

The only way they may claim rights to Israel (since they are not even Shemites, but Japhetites), is through using Shaul Paulus (their double agent) of NT, ie. crawling to the cross, eating rocks and grass to use some biblical metaphores. Since their lineage goes back to Noah through Gomer, one son of Japhet who is the patriarch of Europeans (Japhet was the brother of Shem, who is the Shemite patriarch, from which Abraham, Isaac and Israel stem). DNA shows that none of these have any right to Israel, in the light of the Torah, which they use to claim right to Israel.

[edit on 12/3/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 02:50 PM
link   
reply to post by Josephus23
 


I wouldn't say it voids it, but it does reinforce the tribal aspect further.

The Law of Return essentially emphasises the tribal aspect. Since there are no modern day Shoftim or Chieftains, Israel is somewhat acting in that role.

I don't exactly agree with them being in that role, but until actual shoftim and elders set up then Israel is the closest thing.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 08:28 PM
link   
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


Let's see what he counter this one with. I doubt he can do nothing but re-claiming what he's thought he lost, not realising what he never had that also got lost and what WE lost in him turning off passage to another level. The Jews of Israel are Gomerites and Magogites. They are scoffered Europeans and Russians. People we didn't like, who claimed rights to Israel, and you all see how they rule "their" Land. Finally Jehu has gathered all the Ba'al students in their temples. Why not blast them all away?



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 09:04 PM
link   
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


I like to deal with tangibles. That is because I fancy myself as a scientist and I really like empirically supported ideas.

Now...

If you want to discuss the particulars of a religion then we could analyze the metaphor found in the Talmud, Bible, or Qur'an.
I like qualitative analysis, but it is speculative.

I understand why you would make the argument that you've formulated, but it seems to me that you and I have different levels of validity.

You seem to have a ton of faith in religious texts, whereas, I have none.

So, we will never find common ground as long as the only thing that you reference is religious texts.
And the only thing I rely upon are the rules of the research process and the scientific method.

The two are diametrically opposed to one another.

I like reading your posts. I will give you props on having a wealth of knowledge regarding religious tradition. Actually that goes for both of you, but in a debate situation, I can not buy into any argument that either of you have presented based on its validity.

Sorry folks. It has been a fun thread though. No personal insults and what not.

I am highly appreciative of that.

Cheers.





top topics
 
76
<< 21  22  23    25  26 >>

log in

join