We, ATS Members, Must Focus On Politics

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


You and I have had our differences of opinion in the past, nothing major and it has always remained civil, but I cannot recall a post from anyone that I agree with more than your OP.

How anyone can not be interested or aware of the forces and events around them which have such a controlling effect on every aspect of their lives is beyond me.

Unfortunately the vast majority of people who seem to get involved in political or current affairs debates, myself probably included, do so with pre-concieved ideas and beliefs thus reducing the chance for reasoned debate with an open mind.
Most such threads descend to shouting matches ignoring the strengths of an opposing arguement or viewpoints.

Let's hope this is a wake up call to most of us.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
One could argue that, because of politics, you're not.

The deep-seated conspiracies of the UFO cover-ups and disparaging cultural stance toward higher-spiritual/paranormal revelations is because various government policies are keeping it that way. Hrm... that pesky politics again.

One could argue that and it'd be a great debate - let's add that one into the mix shall we?

I'm all for debate and I love taking part here it's a great place to learn as well as vent frustrations at those who don't appear to want to learn (from the opinion of those venting).

If traffic is what you want then go for it - I just don't think we'll rally around Saul Alinsky style and march together because we have so much diversity here (A good thing for conflict and resolution, a bad thing for time management).

My place in this life is to always question those who lead, it keeps them on their toes and keeps everyone informed. ATS is a hotbed of brilliant minds all with a keen intellect and an opinion to share. I'm sure you'll do just fine.

Just know I'm not going to be trumpt on Human Rights by a supposed alien or talking about abortion issues with a channeler.

I find it to be nonsensical.

But yes - we are all lumped together with politics and so go get em' tigers!

-m0r

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
You thread was a very clear rant about how you don't want ATS to have political debate.

Nothing of the sort.

The thread was very clear that we don't want the acidic insults, name-calling, and knee-jerk parroting of partisan slander infecting otherwise meaningful dialogue.

Fair enough I do hope you looked into some of the ideas posted in the last thread. When you decide to take care of things on the front end free speech will always take a hit. The only problem it is very hard to deal with on the back end. At the end of the day ATS is a fair fun place to argue the finer points of everything.

This snippet from: " The Philosophy Of George Berkeley " sound's like what you are seeking, if I am correct.





Berkeley, like his predecessor Locke, is concerned with philosophical perplexity (i.e. philosophical questions and disputes that never appear to be resolved). According to Locke the explanation of our perplexity was that human faculties are limited. By attempting to exceed the scope of human understanding, we delve into areas that we cannot understand. In such a view, there is much that we don’t understand. (For example, we don’t have a full understanding of the real natures of things. We don’t know how the mind thinks, we don’t know how particles of matter cohere together, we don’t know whether the soul is immaterial or material). In this way Locke endorses a kind of ignorance. This Lockean ignorance is, for Berkeley, a kind of skepticism that he seeks to oppose.



Before I go any further, let me mention a couple of other forms of skepticism that Berkeley is concerned to address:



(1) Skepticism about the External World. How do we know whether there is anything beyond our own experiences? Can we know for certain that there is an external world? These are the types of questions associated with this kind of skepticism – the kind which is perhaps most familiar to us. Here the issue is one of doubt or a lack of certainty or a kind of agnosticism. This is less important to Berkeley than you might have thought.

(2) Skepticism as the Distrust or Denigration of the Senses. Through the rise of the new science, the importance of mathematics came to the foreground. For some philosophers and scientists the senses fell into a kind of disrepute. They were taken to be generally unreliable and faulty.

(3) Skepticism as the Denial of the Reality of Sensible Things. This kind of skepticism (which is central in Three Dialogues) is not about doubting, but denial. According to this kind of skepticism sensible qualities don’t really exist or are, in some important sense, absent from the external world. The world as it seems to us is not how it really is. (While it seems that there are colors, sounds, odors which are “out there”, in fact nothing is “out there” except for particles which are extended, with shape, in motion.). Note that this kind of skepticism is deeply connected to Lockean Ignorance of the true nature of things. For in Locke’s view, we are ignorant of the real essences of sensible things. For example, while we know that gold is yellow, etc., we don’t know what its true nature is).

(4) Skepticism as Lockean Ignorance. See Above.



The main point to appreciate is that, for Berkeley, the skepticism he is opposed to flies in the face of common sense (i.e. against the vulgar). So, for example, Locke appears to be professing ignorance of things that the vulgar know perfectly well. It is not against common sense to deny the reality of sensible things. Also: It is against common sense to denigrate the senses. It is against common sense to be in doubt whether there is an external world or not. Because skepticism has a tendency to undermine the vulgar’s respect of philosophical views, it is very harmful in Berkeley’s opinion.

How many times have you heard these words "We don't talk about politics or religion because it only causes arguments"? Well my friends we are where we are, in the fix we find ourselves because we didn't want to cause arguments.

I applaud the staff of ATS in welcoming and encouraging the discussion of politics and ignoring the status quo on the subject thereof.

We must at a bare minimum engage in political debate before we can ever have any hope of taking back control of this behemoth encroaching on all of our lives. We must no longer allow our apathy and fear to rule the day.

I personally don't think that the two party system is completely facetious, (unlike like the leadership of those parties) I think that people polarize themselves along those party lines because the ideology fits with them personally better.

And while it's true that there are many many shades of gray along the political spectrum, people tend to identify better with people who may be on the closer polar end of their side of the spectrum. And thus will defend those ideologies easier than they will see the validity of the other side's argument.

While ideally the cast of the two party left/right paradigm would be best thrown away, and the people set free to align themselves in their better fitting and more neutral state, without a willful and continuous effort from the people this won't happen.

You also have to remember, that these people that have been in politics for years and years may have also brainwashed themselves into that mindset of the Left V Right insanity that you see today. If you tell a lie long enough, you will believe that lie yourself. While on some level they may realize it's a facade, a more ingrained notion tells them it's the truth, even if that ingrained notion is just their own political programing working against their own sense of reality.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Okelydokeley ... so if I have this right, as per this thread, we must rightly focus on politics, but without pissing you off, knowing that if it is mere asshackery threads will be moved to the still invisible Political Rivalry forum, mindful that there are many who wish Obama to fail and coutry be damned, and of the political game, whilst denying the culture of negativity armed with a rigid spine and thick skin.

Okayz.

Seriously, all good points ... although there's a lot going on there, a lot going on.

So when everyone is doing all that it will be safe to go back in them forumz?

I'm glad that's sorted.


(j/k of course, thank you for trying)

reply to post by projectvxn


Dude, I miss your comments in the threads. I felt the same way you do now.

Of course I have this sado masochistic streak a mile wide.

To think about it, that must be what politicians must feel like.

Career Politicians-the boon to mankind!

I don't try to be a hack. I have my own views and I bring them into the discussions here when I feel that they're ATS appropriate. I have other forums to go to where I can be as partisan as I want. I like posting things here about the constitution since a lot of CTers really care a lot more than the average person does about their rights being taken away so I like getting their perspective.

SO, I want to ask you a question- you're not saying that it's not okay to attack or defend another view point are you? You're just saying that we should as ATS members be more observant of the truth? Because I think that everyone has their own truths and ideas about issues and they shouldn't be silenced. But you're not saying that we should silence debate, just, more that we should be more open to other people's points of views, and talk to them about our own views, and try to be more civil about it. Is that it?

Well I for one have shaped my political views from what I have learned on this site. Im sure I have made some questionable post. Thats part of the learning process,mistakes.
I will continue to add the "Regular Folk" view , but with a little more wit.

Internet "trolls" are such a nuisance, there is even a website dedicated to identifying and dealing with them.
www.flayme.com...

Politics. The art of political discourse. I have not seen any public emphasis on this discipline, like say, ART appreciation, or wine tasting.
Really, they are not for everyone. Political discourse, art appreciation or wine tasting. You have to BRING something to each of those practices, and frankly, some people have nothing to bring.

But, I applaud standards. We need them.

Great thread S&F!

4 million hits a month?

that's great!

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Couldn't agree more.

Lurk alot but post little, here.

Work in a service-oriented business and encounter everyone from welfare recipients to those planning next year's vacation, in the same day.

An often-experienced and seemingly prevalent common denominator is that of merely Parroting their favored sNewZe outlet throughout.

Often times, quite frustrating ... to say the least.

That Many folks make no effort to "look outside" Their "box" whatsoever.

That Many folks simply accept whatever the StupidTube "tells" them "happened in the world today".


Yes. It is about time people get up off their asses and at least take a more concerted and vested interest or approach to the [global] politics, economics and day-to-day decisions which will Certainly and Ultimately effect their day-to-day lives.

Until then ... Carry On, I Guess ?



*test*
who's the latest or next american idiot?

sorry,I'm too busy trying to fight censorship and to legalize things i can't talk about here because people will get their panties in a bunch.
I'm also trying to keep food on my table and teach english to the neighbors kids as well as working on my own projects.

it's all interconnected,I'm just waiting for america to fall so i can help rebuild a new one.
it's too damaged to be repaired and no republicrats can fix it.

This is just my .02cents on politics. To fight your enemy you must know your enemy, if you are not willing to listen to all sides of a subject you are doomed never to learn. If you never learn you never progress and your enemy wins. I personaly do not care what your beleifes are be they birther, truther, or what have you, if your not willing to listen to all sides guess where that leaves you...

To know both sides you must listen or in the case of ATS read while being willing to change your opinion when presented with information that is factual and relavent.

I hope that ATS can become a place where political talk will no longer be a !#*$ size contest or mud flinging contest but a place where people come to learn and challenge there perseptions and beliefs i know that every time i click on a topic on ATS political or not im willing and ready to be proven wrong.

thank you and good day night depending on your location in this universe

With four-million visits a month and eight-million posts, the ATS platform is a powerful one. Your efforts may not make a difference nationally and/or internationally, but you will be noticed.

That's amazing. It was just a year ago that it was 3 million. I've never really thought about who's been reading my posts/threads and what their perception of me may be....but with such a high number....who knows. I miss the page views that were once shown and I often wonder how many people are reading the words that I type...my thoughts.

The political fight has become more harsh because the stakes are much higher.

I think most of us know that this country is in dire trouble...there are many variables. I've looked at it from both sides and I've tried to sort out the craziness in my own mind.

We're all in this together...and we will all go down together if we don't find a way to unite.

[edit on 1-3-2010 by David9176]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


You know, Bill, some of us do actually focus on politics, 100% of the time.

I know myself for one, am sick and tired of the whining, complaining, and bitching.

Let me be clear, that was not directed at you nor ATS Adminstration and staff.

It is directed however, at all of those people on ATS, who do nothing politically.

If they want to sit on their derriere and believe they are making a difference, fine.

But our responsibility does not end with the voting booth, but actually begins there.

Each and every thread I do has politics involved in it, in some way, shape, or form.

Whether it involves foreign, domestic, or some other type of policy the United States has, depends upon the topic, the direction it flows, and how it is perceived.

I've grown up since age six focusing on politics and it is all I focus upon.

I did not take the time to post on the I'm pissed... thread.

I'm taking the time to do so here however because I want to see ATS actually get involved in politics, not just the members, but the entire website.

People however will focus to their strengths or weaknesses based upon their abilities, their perceptions, and their own willingness to get up off their butts.

And do the right thing.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Your words are my reassurance and I thank you for your courage to be bold and forthright.

This is an amazing site with solid content and mounds of information, links and references to the realities many are denied.

To be able to see the entire picture is a desire beheld by many and the reason we seek truth and become entwined in the realities we uncover.

It is without question that politics are at the root of every conspiracy, in one form or another, and we must deny ignorance and continue to make the connections and uncover true motives.

Thanks again for an awesome site.

What about us members not from the USA?

We shouldnt have to focus on your politics right? Last time I made a comment on a political thread about the USA, I was told to shut up as Im not in the country and therefore my opinion doesnt count

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Last week we grabbed your attention with the unapologetic thread, I'm pissed!! (political trolls and hacks), that received a large number of flags, stars, and an overwhelming majority of members who agreed with the sentiment.

You can post "My left nipple felt wierd today" Your the boss, you'll be front page news w/s&f till your right nipple hurt.
Don't stop too fast.


SkepticOverlord:

Expose the corruption inherent in both "sides" of the artificial two-party system.

Agreed, I think we do this already.


SkepticOverlord:

Apply the unique and collaborative critical thinking of conspiracy speculation on ATS to the malfeasance that has held sway in Washington, DC for decades -- and seems to have been peaking over the past twelve years.

So is ATS a lobbyist?


SkepticOverlord:

With four-million visits a month and eight-million posts, the ATS platform is a powerful one. Your efforts may not make a difference nationally and/or internationally, but you will be noticed.

Yes ATS is a lobbyist.


I'm in a bad mood tonight. I'll be on board reguardless.