We, ATS Members, Must Focus On Politics

Personally I think the best way to really understand the political equation is to not look so much at the contemporary but at the historical actions that led to fundamental changes in the foundational aspects of America.

To examine the circumstances of the day that led to reactions like the Federal Reserve Act, or the Social Security Act, or the New Deal, or the Patriot Act and to examine those nonpartisan external elements that led to partisan reaction.

I am probably more so than most conspiracy oriented because it’s the circumstances and the people involved behind the scenes and their decision making process and who those decisions most benefited that fascinate me for their conspiratorial elements.

In my humble opinion when you start to examine history honestly through objective and extensive sources you do begin to see that one party is just as inclined to carry out a similar action as the other party at those critical junctures of time where the weight of circumstances either make for an ideal political climate to effect a status quo change or necessitate a status quo change.

The political process is by and large a controlled process of preselected candidates run on preformed platforms simply to elicit emotional reactions that then take on the guise of pseudo intellectual issues even though the decisions have generally and genuinely already been made behind the scenes and most of what the politicians are there for is to dress them up in the window and present them to us.

Because of the way so many people are inclined to approach politics as a spectator sport, my team against your team and that inherent need for validation by picking the winning team, in fact the politicians themselves end up through that process attaining near carte blanche support from their parties and it’s members and their constituents even to the point that people ignore the substance and the impact of the very real issues that they are effecting through legislation for people behind the scenes who aren’t involved in that divisive bickering or egomania at all.

General Motors is going to make the maximum dollar contribution to both the Republican and Democratic Candidate in every key race and even the independent ones if polls suggest they have a chance to win.

They hedge their bets for a reason and that reason is getting an apparently partisan dominated body to do something for you does in fact not require being partisan yourself.

Accountability is for the most part nonexistent in government anymore and at best the only thing you can do to hold them accountable is to reject the incumbent for a fresh slate of preselected candidates put to you by the same financial and corporate interests as the last batch who weren’t accountable to those who elected them either.

People would be better served focusing on the issues, on multiple levels and not the political players or labels or platforms.

While a lot of people on ATS are in fact simply political party hacks for lack of a better word, many of us are dyed in the wool conspiracy theorists that really do just scratch our heads and wonder why such people aren’t seeing a bigger and much more complex picture than others aren’t.

It gets hard sometimes trying to discuss and look for the real underlying factors and the real motivations and the real hidden players through all the noise of people who really don’t get and don’t want to get ATS is a conspiracy minded site and more than just an arena for two diametrically opposed sides to battle each other to a draw with the notions and ideas given to them by the people who in fact would prefer to divide the populace in that very unproductive and self defeating endeavor.

Come on up to the next level, the air is fine!

Originally posted by novacs4me
So if we believe that keeping taxes low, and keeping government small, then we are parrots for saying it?

That's an important and lofty goal, and one in which I personally believe. However, actual actions by the politicians conflict with what the pundits and firebrands would have you believe and say. Hence the basis for my comment about "parroting" (which had more to do with the quoted comment about Democrats).

reply to post by haterproof


Most people that understand government fiscal and monetary policy understand that there is a "time lag" between implementation of either of those policies and when they actually start having an effect.

article

Other possible problems with fiscal stimulus include the time lag between the implementation of the policy and detectable effects in the economy

That fact alone means that it is quite possible that you have the story completely backwards.

It means that changes made during Republican administrations do not show up until the next (democrat) administration - which then takes the credit for the economic upswing. It also means that the results of democrat monetary and fiscal policy do not take effect until the next (Republican) administration - which gets the blame.

Do you have examples to go along with your opinions?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Hence the basis for my comment about "parroting" (which had more to do with the quoted comment about Democrats).

I was going to move on until you posted the above.

Unfortunately, this is an example what I have seen on a daily basis on the political threads.

Someone makes a false statement and I correct it - with facts. Or they ask me to give proof of one of my statements, and I do - with facts.

The next response I so often get is either a "shoot the messenger response" or an insult.

You have nothing but your opinion to back up your accusation that I'm "parroting media firebrands" on this thread. On the other hand, I did research in response to your question and posted it to back up what I was saying.

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that the conspiracists who shy away from politics will end up presenting incomplete theories, errant analysis, and short-sighted speculation.

I agree with that 100%

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Personally I think the best way to really understand the political equation is to not look so much at the contemporary but at the historical actions that led to fundamental changes in the foundational aspects of America.

Surely enough, the majority have ceased to utilize their brain functions as a positive tool.

To examine the circumstances of the day that led to reactions like the Federal Reserve Act, or the Social Security Act, or the New Deal, or the Patriot Act and to examine those nonpartisan external elements that led to partisan reaction.

Just a thought would be, even if that thought was more or less made evident even to the lamest or less educated no such reaction would exist for the simple fact that no such cerebral interactions exists.

I am probably more so than most conspiracy oriented because it’s the circumstances and the people involved behind the scenes and their decision making process and who those decisions most benefited that fascinate me for their conspiratorial elements.

The only thing i am able to add is no comment, you have more or less covered all aspects.

In my humble opinion when you start to examine history honestly through objective and extensive sources you do begin to see that one party is just as inclined to carry out a similar action as the other party at those critical junctures of time where the weight of circumstances either make for an ideal political climate to effect a status quo change or necessitate a status quo change.

The only thing you perhaps have failed to make obvious is that the majority lack individualism.

The political process is by and large a controlled process of preselected candidates run on preformed platforms simply to elicit emotional reactions that then take on the guise of pseudo intellectual issues even though the decisions have generally and genuinely already been made behind the scenes and most of what the politicians are there for is to dress them up in the window and present them to us.

Obviously you are touching grounds that are not spoken about, let alone discussed on a conventional level between friends or groups. That alone is what is most evidently needed. Should i add here " expand you mind"

Because of the way so many people are inclined to approach politics as a spectator sport, my team against your team and that inherent need for validation by picking the winning team, in fact the politicians themselves end up through that process attaining near carte blanche support from their parties and it’s members and their constituents even to the point that people ignore the substance and the impact of the very real issues that they are effecting through legislation for people behind the scenes who aren’t involved in that divisive bickering or egomania at all.

Well put, but evidently people are more comfortable with not knowing the the truth and comforted by evaluation via a pre programmed process of distinction.

General Motors is going to make the maximum dollar contribution to both the Republican and Democratic Candidate in every key race and even the independent ones if polls suggest they have a chance to win.

They hedge their bets for a reason and that reason is getting an apparently partisan dominated body to do something for you does in fact not require being partisan yourself.

Accountability is for the most part nonexistent in government anymore and at best the only thing you can do to hold them accountable is to reject the incumbent for a fresh slate of preselected candidates put to you by the same financial and corporate interests as the last batch who weren’t accountable to those who elected them either.

People would be better served focusing on the issues, on multiple levels and not the political players or labels or platforms.

While a lot of people on ATS are in fact simply political party hacks for lack of a better word, many of us are dyed in the wool conspiracy theorists that really do just scratch our heads and wonder why such people aren’t seeing a bigger and much more complex picture than others aren’t.

It gets hard sometimes trying to discuss and look for the real underlying factors and the real motivations and the real hidden players through all the noise of people who really don’t get and don’t want to get ATS is a conspiracy minded site and more than just an arena for two diametrically opposed sides to battle each other to a draw with the notions and ideas given to them by the people who in fact would prefer to divide the populace in that very unproductive and self defeating endeavor.

Come on up to the next level, the air is fine!

You seem to have covered one to many bases here. Obviously enough, perhaps its the reason why we have taken a heads approach to your reply's on issues as the current. Given that the majority are either dumb founded, or non expressed guarantees us that what we say goes. Although there are people like yourself who tend to create waves. Waves that do benefit in the long run for those who see that reality is a form of perception. But to those who have a limited aspect of perception may see posts like this as a form of aggression. You are definitely one to watch.

Peace.

reply to post by tristar

You seem to have covered one to many bases here. Obviously enough, perhaps its the reason why we have taken a heads approach to your reply's on issues as the current. Given that the majority are either dumb founded, or non expressed guarantees us that what we say goes. Although there are people like yourself who tend to create waves. Waves that do benefit in the long run for those who see that reality is a form of perception. But to those who have a limited aspect of perception may see posts like this as a form of aggression. You are definitely one to watch.

This is why I post on the Internet it saves a lot of people from having to sneak around in bushes, park in cramped hot vans, and drink way to much coffee!

I will not deny that I purposefully at times make provocative statements. Nor will I deny I have a true passion for knowledge and debate.

Some would call me a renaissance man, though many people call me far less flattering things, in many ways though what this nation and the world needs is a new renaissance, clearly things are not working.

I credit my progressiveness to Fisher Price, it was a rather simple formative lesson in discovering that no the square peg doesn’t really fit into the round hole no matter how hard you bang it with the little plastic hammer. I must confess I tried altering the hole with a little plastic saw but the teeth just didn’t sink in.

In today’s politics we have a lot of bark, but very little bite, the teeth are not sinking in.

It’s true that once bitten people do have a tendency to be twice shy my friend, yet clearly that bite has caused them to think to reconsider before making yet another attempt to get that square peg to go into that round hole.

When people start ignoring those rudimentary elements and those fundamental basics that are those common sense elements that make things logistically work, in favor of endless bickering as to who’s fault it is that the square peg does not fit into the round hole, then you do in fact end up with the dysfunctional quagmire that leads to first the stagnation we started seeing decades ago, but then a regression and a true deterioration that plaques and permeates everything in our cultures.

At what point does progress resume, when the heads finally split open that are crashing against the wall, or the much stronger wall falls due to an earthquake caused by the endless stampede of people looking to butt their heads against it.

The rigged partisan political process is clearly not serving the people, and what we clearly have is two stubborn and determined diametrically opposed groups arguing about which one of the groups should get the chance to stampede the wall with their heads as battering rams.

I will grant you as a sadist there is a perverse humor to be enjoyed in the spectacle but at what point do we simply stop handing out band aides for the injured and start finding the real cures to the diseases of society that truly ail them. Those diseases that a select and privileged few earn fortunes and gain power they wish to perpetuate for their posterity, vanity and wealth at the expense of all those aching heads.

It takes a while to plant seeds, it takes longer for the barren ground that they often fall upon when scattered to the wind to become fertile and growing conditions to become ripe, and for the weather to make those seeds grow, but alas if not for that sometimes unwelcome and oft unappreciated or understood endeavor then how would anything at all grow.

Those of us who can do that kind of farming really ought to, because honestly, all the incessant head banging keeps me awake at night!






[edit on 3/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

I guess or should i assume a visit as a silent participant during the eu meeting's would be most rewarding let alone an experience beyond what the majority perceive it to be.

....and then we would encounter the pragmatic reality of perception that television or radio distorts the concept of perception in order to maintain a stability via visual/sonic equations that have been proven to alter the human reaction to sustain a hypothetical but acceptable outcome based on fiction or theoretical equations.




Humans.....they are so predictable.....No ?

reply to post by tristar


wow i like to think of myself as a rather "bright" person, but your post just flew right over my head and into the pacific somewhere... Thank you for making me actualy think today now i will go back and re-read your post so i can try and make heads or tails of what you are saying.

to learn something new every day should be every ones greatest challenge....


thank you and good day/night depending on your location in this universe.

"Ignorance is the creeping crud of history that has clouded our minds and dulled our brains. Is the evil that men do, the reason history repeats, and the cause of intolerance. "

I like that line.

P.s - I find it highly depressing when people argue within threads such as these. It's kind of like drinking at an AA meeting.

The way I see it, politics had a deep meaning decades ago, but as time passes the lines continue to errode as far as mainstream media is concerned.

It hardely matters if you vote for a republican or democrat candidate as all you get is false promises and corruption. Yes there are ideological differences, but the shadow government composed of big business and the illuminatti bankers prevent meaningful change from ever happening.

It seems with republicans, negativity escallates much faster than with the democrats. Right wingers say "small government" but they don't properly define what they mean. I don't want small government because I believe people and business need laws and regulations to function properly, but we need them to be as fair as possible for everyone. Currently most of the regulation favors wealthy people and big business as exemplified with the IRS code! Percentage wise they pay much less than the middle class eventhough they are at a higher bracket and that has a lot to do with taylor-made loopholes.

Republicans are not "the peoples" friend! They never were the peoples friend, they were for the privileged and for corruption, aka status quo. If people keep voting for non-monetary issues such *no birth control*, *no same sex marriage*, *pro-religion* and associate themselves with THE RIGHT then they have nobody but themselves to blame for being so gullible.

Personally I am quite certain that real change will come from (1)smaller parties or (2)through violent revolution. It is very unfortunate people have let down their guard for so long and assumed politicians know best. Yes they know more than your average joe, but at the end of the day they are still ordinary people just like you or me and prone to the same weaknesses. Its like flying a jumbo jet from NYC to Paris on auto-pilot the entire time with no regard to weather conditions, ATC, other planes crossing paths, etc....in other words....A DISASTER WAITING TO HAPPEN!

Everyone needs to understand the basics and get involved so we can put pressure on "our representatives" to perform adequately. Cast a vote, protest on the streets, protest on ATS, etc.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by EarthCitizen07]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
The opening post was not intended to be a call-to-action for a focus on exclusively American politics... but to urge all who are concerned about conspiracies and related speculation, not to avoid political topics... in fact, to call for a new focus on politics.

Well, that is not what your original post seemed to be about since it was referring to American politics, and not on international politics.

The website for years has also had a motto of not taking up any particular political view/belief, yet now you are doing an about face and endorsing a particular set of political views.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
While international politics are important, the uniquely American disease of intensely divided left/right hatred among the populace appears to be infecting other nations. Is it not important to examine the source of such problems?

What you call "American disease" you will never understand simply because you have never experienced what happens to a country that embraces the "left", and yes there is a divide sorry to say.

You can call it "disease" all you want, but you should know that there are millions of Americans who came to the U.S. from leftist dictatorships, and such people will never bow to the left paradim, no matter how many times they call for peace and for a "middle ground".

We are experiencing the result of that "middle ground" as we speak, and it has been the cause for the worldwide economic crisis.

People who have suffered under leftist regimes will not "suddenly wake up and embrace the left", or make any concessions to "meet in the middle", because we have seen what such "concessions" have done in the past.

This is the same as asking survivors of the holocaust to embrace "a middle ground" with at least some of the same programs, and views which caused the holocaust in the first place.... Those people will not accept even a middle ground.

There is a point in time when a man/woman must decide to make a stand for his/her beliefs, and the knowledge which their experiences in life have taught them.

You cannot stop this simply by name-calling, and branding such beliefs, and knowledge through experience as a "disease", or whatever else you want to call it.

In fact you are partaking in the same name calling that is not supposed to be allowed, at least for members, and let's get real, that is what you are asking, and doing.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by mikelee

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that the conspiracists who shy away from politics will end up presenting incomplete theories, errant analysis, and short-sighted speculation.

I agree with that 100%

So would you believe then the warnings from high ranking Russian, and chinese former military officers, and the millions of people who have escaped from Socialist dictatorships, and will you accept the fact that there is a concerted effort by Leftist elitists to take control over the world, and implement a "One World Socialist regime", and "One World economy"?

After all, the economic crisis which we are in will lead us at least closer to a "universal" or "One world Economy", and "One World Socialist regime".

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Can you point to a moment in history where the supposed economic tenants of a party's traditional actual doctrine (not the skewed assumptions of the "other side") have actually been employed by that party's chief executive?

Before the "Progressive" movement took over. Before Woodrow Wilson decided to sell the country to the Socialist international bankers by implementing the Feds, and the Income tax. When the forefathers of this nation agreed to form a Republican form of government in which the Republic is based on.

Yes, there were fallacies even back then, such as not allowing the black people to have the same rights as whites, but appart from that the government was at least trying to work more for the people.

Democrats think the best way to fix and/or grow the economy is by taxing and spending, while Republicans say that tax cuts and smaller government will grow the economy.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
To me, that's a fine example of "parroting" the media firebrands.

I know this is not directed at me, so I apologize for the interruption, but even you when confronted for example with the truth of what has been happening in Cuba, have resorted to claiming "the CIA book doesn't say that", and you wouldn't accept the fact that the information from the "CIA book" is nothing more than the information which the Communist regime wants the world to believe, and it is not the truth.

You yourself have been a fine example of "parroting" the media firebrands sorry to say SO.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
You can call it "disease" all you want, but you should know that there are millions of Americans who came to the U.S. from leftist dictatorships, and such people will never bow to the left paradim, no matter how many times they call for peace and for a "middle ground".

For every left dictatorship I can cite 5 that are right wing! South America, Central America and Africa were especially prone to them.

Its always about installing CRONY CAPITALISM with the help of the military. I am sorry but either you don't know what you are talking about or your intentionally confusing the issues.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
We are experiencing the result of that "middle ground" as we speak, and it has been the cause for the worldwide economic crisis.

What "middle ground"? I find it interesting that you included middle ground within parenthesis! Are you admitting there is no middle ground now?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
People who have suffered under leftist regimes will not "suddenly wake up and embrace the left", or make any concessions to "meet in the middle", because we have seen what such "concessions" have done in the past.

With the exception of communism which was a bit too control-oriented but still fairer than capitalism, and the exception of nazi germany and fascist italy which were imperialistic socialists, no country has suffered but rather prospered immensely.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
This is the same as asking survivors of the holocaust to embrace "a middle ground" with at least some of the same programs, and views which caused the holocaust in the first place.... Those people will not accept even a middle ground.

Your analogy is terrible and has nothing to do with left/right/center. It has to do with ethnic cleansing!

[edit on 3-3-2010 by EarthCitizen07]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by mikelee

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that the conspiracists who shy away from politics will end up presenting incomplete theories, errant analysis, and short-sighted speculation.

I agree with that 100%

So would you believe then the warnings from high ranking Russian, and chinese former military officers, and the millions of people who have escaped from Socialist dictatorships, and will you accept the fact that there is a concerted effort by Leftist elitists to take control over the world, and implement a "One World Socialist regime", and "One World economy"?

After all, the economic crisis which we are in will lead us at least closer to a "universal" or "One world Economy", and "One World Socialist regime".

Left elitism is a misnomer! Technically it cannot exist because *elitism* and *equality* are diametrically opposities. It like saying black and white are the same, but we all know they are different.

Mainstream Media is trying to fool the gullible so the illuminatti can continue implementing their world domination plans. The russian and chinesse leaders you cite are the ones THAT SOLD OUT both communism and socialism FOR CORPORATE CAPITALISM!

[edit on 3-3-2010 by EarthCitizen07]

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

For every left dictatorship I can cite 5 that are right wing! South America, Central America and Africa were especially prone to them.

It is actually the oposite. There are, and have been more leftist dictatorships than "rightwing dictatorships".

I know a lot of people like to claim that for example Nazi Germany was "right wing", when in fact it was a leftwing dictatorship which implemented Socialist programs, but such people will never of course admit this even when Hitler himself would state so in his speeches.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Its always about installing CRONY CAPITALISM with the help of the military. I am sorry but either you don't know what you are talking about or your intentionally confusing the issues.

When the military takes over a country it is not anymore "Capitalist", but rather a military dictatorship. "Leftwing regimes" have "used" Capitalism to stay afloat...yet they are not truly a Capitalist nation.

I know exactly what I am talking about, and I am not confusing anything.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
What "middle ground"? I find it interesting that you included middle ground within parenthesis! Are you admitting there is no middle ground now?

First of all I just talked about the "middle ground" so I wonder where you get the idea that I don't think there is a "middle ground".

Second of all, as for what "middle ground"? the one where nations keep embracing Socialist programs. The one in which for example President Obama took over a private company and made it a government property.. The one where every nation has been infiltrated by the Socialist elites, and where they are calling for a "One World Government"..

The one where they are calling for "disarmament of the west" meanwhile many countries in the east such as Russia, CHina, Iran, etc are arming themselves to the teeth.

BTW, yes I am aware that if the military, or corporation are allowed to take control in a nation it becomes a dictatorship eventually, but that has never been what true Republicanims, at least in the U.S. is about.

People like me want LESS government, not more... We don't want a nanny state, or "world federation" where the state has control over everything, so I wonder how such a belief would lead us to a dictatorship.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
With the exception of communism which was a bit too control-oriented but still fairer than capitalism, and the exception of nazi germany and fascist italy which were imperialistic socialists, no country has suffered but rather prospered immensely.

First of all, you are aware that most people in the world have been subject to such "Socialist" dictatorships right? In China alone there are at leat 1.3 billion people.

Second of all, you do know that it is a known fact that Socialist regimes have murdered more people, outside from soldiers dying in battles, than all other wars around the world, including World Wars put together?...

Third of all, the world is in an economic crisis and you want to claim there has been prosperity?

Even before the conomic crisis most countries which had "Universal healthcare" were going bankrupt because such a system could not be sustained. Yes, even Canada...

Fourth of all if you are going to mention small countries such as Switzerland where the population is about 7.3 million people as an example of "prosperity" then I will point to the fact that first, even though religion is not endorsed by the government, most Swiss are religious people with only 9% being atheists. Second, I will also point for example to Wyoming, a state in the U.S. which even though there is an economic crisis in the country, Wyoming is still thriving more than any other state with maybe the exception of Montana. In comparison we can see what is happening to states such as California who have embraced more Socialist programs than other states.

Montana, and Wyoming are two states in the U.S. which are very rich in resources. Wyoming happens to have the world largest coal reserve, appart from other resorces, which coincidentally Switzerland is also rich in resources which is part of the reason for their prosperity.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Your analogy is terrible and has nothing to do with left/right/center. It has to do with ethnic cleansing!

Really?...so it has nothing to do with accepting and implementing Socialist programs?.... BTW if you want to talk about "ethnic cleansing" then ask the Socialist/Liberal elitists such as Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and others such as Obama's science czar, John Holdren, among many others who are endorsing "population control by any means" and the fact that "planned parenthood" and other such programs have a goal to "get rid of those people they don't want to have too many of".

My analogy is not terrible, the embrace of Socialism/Communism brought, and is still bringing nothing but suffering and death to people in nations around the world.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Left elitism is a misnomer! Technically it cannot exist because *elitism* and *equality* are diametrically opposities. It like saying black and white are the same, but we all know they are different.

"Equality" in Socialist/Communist regimes? Tell that to the millions of people suffering under such "equality".... Even in Socialism/Communism, some are more equals than others... One of the main fallacies of Socialism/Communism is the "belief" that "the people" will rule, when in fact the moment that all power is given to the state, the people lose any, and all power.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Mainstream Media is trying to fool the gullible so the illuminatti can continue implementing their world domination plans. The russian and chinesse leaders you cite are the ones THAT SOLD OUT both communism and socialism FOR CORPORATE CAPITALISM!

First of all, what I have been saying has nothing to do with "mainstream media", and in fact most "mainstrain media" are leftist such as MSNBC, CNN, etc...

Second of all, "the illuminati" and all those in power are more "leftist" than "rightwing"....

You can only accomplish a "One World government" through Socialism...and if you look at the UN, and other "worldwide organizations" they have a leftist leaning.


[edit on 4-3-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
..................
Mainstream Media is trying to fool the gullible so the illuminatti can continue implementing their world domination plans.

A couple more things I wanted to say about these comments you made. First of all, a lot of the media, and the elitists actually want people to beleive "there is no left/right paradim". It is in their best interest to brainwash people into believing this, and i see that unfortunately a lot of people are falling for it.

This is the same kind of claim that "Communism is dead", or that "Communism was never a problem".

I know a lot of people think this even though they are good people, and at least some of those people I see them as friends even when they have a difference in opinion to mine.

We can also see even the Russian government using this sort of tactic and they are claiming that "Stalin was a hero, and he did the things he did because he had to and for the good of the motherland"....

The Russian regime went as far as to loot the largest Human Rights building in Russia and they took computers, and documents which were the copilation of decades of data about the attrocities caused by Stalin and his regime.

In fact i even posted a couple of threads about this, such as:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

There are some other threads posted by other members which has a lot to do with this "brainwashing" of "no left/right paradigm", and the brainwashing that the Socialist elites are doing around the world to get people to go along with their plans, such as:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

BTW, I am not saying that the staff, or SO are CIA, or government agents, but it seems that they alongside many others are falling for this grand scam.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The russian and chinesse leaders you cite are the ones THAT SOLD OUT both communism and socialism FOR CORPORATE CAPITALISM!

Neither the Russians, nor the Chinese "sold out to, or for corporate Capitalism"..... they are just "using" Capitalism because their dictatorial regimes need money to survive.



[edit on 4-3-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

I think the important aspect here is that we all come to the site with open minds. We may have wildly differing opinions, but without respecting those that differ from our own, we would do just as well speaking into a mirror.

I would rather express an opinion and learn about someone else's than have people blindly agree with me, or berate me, call me ignorant, etc.

We can all learn from each other- and in so doing- we might actually get somewhere.

Wonderful thread- brought me back after many months- for the very reason expressed. The egos of others tired me when I was trying to make a point or to understand someone else's point.
Are we not all adults, each with a viewpoint that matters?

Cheers- I look forward to good conversations.

C