Tithing..... And the scum that rob God...

This guy, Paul Washer, is out of Alabama, and is an awesome man of God - hands down. He is not liked by the "mass mainstream mega church" types because he calls them out for their "mall" churches and "prosperity" preaching, if you can call most of it "preaching".
He even says he is the preacher that is never invited back after he visits a church to preach - he refuses to preach the 'feel good cotton candy gospel'.

You can listen to his sermons HERE

Or you can catch him on youtube HERE

I was thinking, Yissachar1, that if the people sitting in the congregations of these mega money churches, would get a clue, they could alleviate this situation.

Edited to say, they are greedy, they give, to get .

[edit on 102828p://bSunday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by groingrinder

 

They will take canned goods.

But I'll take drugs. So rummage through your kid's drawers and closets and send any contraband you fiind to me secure in the knowledge that you are truly helping those God cares for the most.

In closing let us join hands together, bow our heads and say a short prayer. "God bless titties and beer. Amen and AMEN!!"

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/081792851253.gif[/atsimg]

reply to post by AlreadyGone


No way dude.. I KNOW there are good churches out there!! They are few and far between though... But I thank God for them

The UK for example... SOME churches... The biggest... Have taken their example from Hillsong Australia.... Big stage.. Light shows... Powerpoint... Music.. All good... But 5 minuets in and out come the baskets.. The rest of the SHOW is about giving money... You get shamed into it.. However where does that money go?
Bigger stages... venues all things that are not needed because they think that the bells and whistles bring people to God... It does up to a point...... But doesnt keep them there.. These places have huge turnovers of people.. Lots fall away, and many get left behind... Mega churches are too impersonal.. Smaller ones seem to look out for each other better..

Those places are thee to entertain.. Its not real... Love is though... You will bring people to God by showing love... What you do brings them.. Not light shows.. But loving on people.. Taking care of their needs and being that miracle that they need.. Light shows cant do that.. But loving folks does.. And that is what God called us to do..

The small community church can change the world.. You couldnt get any smaller than that upper room in Jerusalem... Look what they did!!

reply to post by Stormdancer777


It totally would... Thats why its sooo sad... And why God was robbed....

reply to post by groingrinder


Guess you been burned huh???


I think those guys have a lot to answer for....

reply to post by Yissachar1


While I think you do have one or two good points here you are mixing apples and oranges...a pastor needs to be able to feed his family, while sheparding his church and doing God's work. There are very few marble mansions when it comes to the homes of all the pastors in the world.

The problem I have with you is your lack of understanding of the economy of the ancient world compared to today. The tithes that were given then did exactly what the tithes are supposed to do today. Expenses of the temple were paid with the tithes then, the animals, the "food" offerings as well as feeding the temple priests, thats because of the barter system of the day. You also dont seem to realise that money was also given then.

What is your problem with the notion that there are actually pastors and churches out there that are responsible and Godly with the money tithes that are given?

From your comments concerning the "african" churches being the worst also tells me that you might be dealing with a bit of racism.

Stop your generalizations with your judgements. Your attempting to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

My advice to you would be before you attack an ancient commandment, make sure you have all your facts prepared and dont let your pride keep you from admitting that you might be wrong on some of your information.

reply to post by Rockstrongo37


Yes a Pastor needs to feed his family, but so does everyone else in the church.. They do this by WORKING for a living like everyone else and like the Apostles too... As for being a "shepherd" there is only ONE shepherd they need and thats Yeshua... Read Mathew 23... "Call NO ONE on earth your teacher for One is your teacher, the Messiah..." It is the Holy Spirit that teaches, and leads into truth, yet the church wont tell you that.... The church doesn't need pastors/shepherds... Yeshua is all the shepherd they will ever need....

As for the African church comment... Funny how I get accused of racism when all im doing is telling the truth... And THAT IS the truth.. Look at the so-called evangelistic church in Nigeria that does nothing about young kids being tortured as witches.. In fact the biggest one even made a film of it... They make a lot of money... That is a fact...

Racist?? How dare you!!

As for the "modern" context... Gods word, as is taught by the church, NEVER CHANGES just like Him, so His word is more relevant than any humans word today, or any fashion or fad, for those things pass away, but Gods word remains.. No matter what year it is...




[edit on 28-2-2010 by Yissachar1]

reply to post by Rockstrongo37


Gotta agree with the OP on this one - God's laws don't change no matter how mankind, or society, changes. Although mankind has tried over the centuries, especially in our current generation, to change God and His laws - they are only doing this to make it more 'comfy' for their own selves. i.e. rewriting the Scriptures, creating all the mega churches, rise in atheism, etc.

The lady who paid the two mites was included in the Bible, in my opinion, to set an example - you give what you can afford. Be it money, time, goods, food, shelter, etc.

1. Jews, who invented tithing (anyway, it's in their Hebrew scriptures), do not pay a tithe. They haven't since 70 AD.

2. Tithing was never paid in money.

3. 90% of tithing was given to the poor.

4. Tithing can only be paid to a Levite priest. Nobody today is a Levite priest.

5. Tithing was paid in full on the cross. All commandments were fulfilled by Him.

6. Tithing was tax paid in a theocracy under Moses. Nobody paid tax, so the tithing was the tax. Today, you pay more than that in taxes. Your taxes support the poor.

Today, Christians are to give freely in offerings. There is no limit, low or high. "Freely ye have received, freely give." is often quoted, but it refers to preaching the word.

Pastors are dishonest when using the tithing. I confronted one who was a Nazarene pastor. He said he knew it was wrong, but his organization made him do it. Blame it on the people in charge of the denomination, more than the pastor, IMHO.

[edit on 3/1/2010 by Jim Scott]

And Jesus said to them "My house is a house of prayer, but you have turned it into a house of thieves"...matthew 21:13

The preachers of wealth have merchandised the people of god for money, which is the root of all their evil. 2 pet. 2:3

If money IS the root of all evil, why does the church want so much of it ??



This is Exactly why the church dont didnt want the other 60 gospels on the market, the apocrific gospels, those written by Maria, Philip, Judas etc.

..and Jesus said "lift up a stone and you will find me, cut wood and there am i. where ther´s lonliness i am there also."

Jesus says it blatantly..YOU DONT NEED THE CHURCH TO FIND PEACE OR TO FIND GOD; HE´S ALL AROUND...but if everyone knew that, it would REALLY bugger business for the church would´nt it..

[edit on 1-3-2010 by andy1972]

If you wish to donate your money or clothes - send it to the salvation army.

If you wish to donate your money, send it to a charity which deals with whatever cause your church is supposedly helping.

Giving money to keep your place of worship alive is one thing, but giving money for something that you have no idea what it is for is like setting your money on fire or wiping your a$$ with it (a complete waste).

Churches need money to run I understand that, and the people who keep it going (i.e. priests) need to eat and have a decent standard of living. Although I'm not a religious person what so ever, I used to go to Catholic school when I was very young, and church etc... If I remember correctly the people who chose to work for the church, including the priest who lived on campus, lived a very modest life, and I believe living a life of luxury is given up once you decide to play a large role in the church (or wherever you go to worship).

Look at monks for example, how much money do you think they spend to stay alive and well?

"They twist scripture to one of prosperity where if you have no material stuff or are ill, then you haven't got God.. "




And then they tell you the opposite and say not to pursue the riches of this world and all the materialism. Never trust anyone who you pay to tell you what the bible says. Go read it yourself and save some money!!

thus far, Iv'e read nearly every post here and have a lot to say on this subject.. but suffice it to say ..

God LOVES an even balance. (just weights in KJV) To excally quote proverbs from memory ..

Just weights are his delight~!

I'll comment on each post here, later. Suffice it to say this. Jesus aptly put it .. "pay to Ceasear what is Cearsears, and to God what is His"

@ the OP... what you seeing is the exact same thing as the Children of Israel did in the Sinai... used their relationship to get what they wanted/missed to fullfill their lusts. All the gold did only 1 thing... test them.. and they failed.. they made a GOLDEN calf. They paid for it then and they'll stay pay for it now, unless they repent.

Not sure if you've ever actually put on a pastors hat before, but if not, I deeply suggest you sincerly ask your Father in Heaven to direct you to a church where you can sit along side of a spirit filled, blood brought Christian pastor.

From personal experience as a pastor and assistant pastor, there are days which there are never enough hours in a day. Time invested in people takes just that.....TIME. every try and get 100 people to look outside them selves and do something for someone OTHER than their family? Trust me, it takes time and DEEP persoanal relationship with the Father every ... single ... day just to be available to hear and be LEAD to what HE wants for that day.

I can tell you this, living with a pastor's family for 2 years, some weeks/months go by where there's no time for a 'regualar' job .. 8-5pm. Why? Simple, your not on your time... your on God's time. As Paul said.."Is it fair to work your oxen and never feed them?? "

It's about HIM being Lord of your life. As for the T.V. guys.. they have their reward. Remember the faithfull servants?? ..

Here's what REALLY irks me.... Salvation Army recieved 1.7 billons of in 2004 from the woman of the late husband that started McDonalds.......wer're talking BILLION.

As we still have homeless right here in the big city of Portland metro.. why??

tithing was food AND money, and while 10% was the law, technically there is not hard fast law in the new testament for how much one should give. With the free gift of eternal life through Christ one should be giving more! Churches today should be using more of that money to help the poor/needy rather than buying the pastor a fancy new car.

Once every 7 years the churches of the old testament would take the tithes for that year and give it to the poor...try making a church do THAT nowadays! Of coarse churches have rent and property taxes and utilities these days, kind of hard for a church to give it all away. My small church was renting a building that was $5,000 a month! We got evicted for not being able to pay but are now at the community center

reply to post by Rockstrongo37


You sir, are sadly mistaken. If you believe as you have written, you do not believe in biblical Christianity, you believe in modern CHURCHianity, and those two things are vastly different. Let's take the points one by one:

1) There is only ONE Church worldwide, and in each city or locale, there is only ONE church. The Ecclesia was NEVER meant to be understood as a building... it is the PEOPLE OF GOD in a particular geographical location, such as a city. In the Bible, every city, small or large, had only ONE church, because it is not an us/them thing. When you say "What church do you go to?" you reveal that you have no understanding of what the Apostle's established. When you say "why don't you come to MY church?" you show that you have no understanding of what the Apostle's established. The ecclesia is not a place. You don't GO to church... you are called to BE the Church.

2) The entire foundation of the Old Covenant was superseded by the much stricter New Covenant. The pastors are not the same as Levites, and the Church is not the same as the Temple. These are total fabrications created by a "clergy" caste bent on stealing the people's money. You can't get rid of the Sabbath, which is in the basic Ten Commandments, and then decide to keep the Tithing laws. You can't get rid of the Torah's economical laws, and decide to keep the Tithing laws. The scripture is clear... all 613 laws were a pact.. a contract between Israel and God and that pact has been replaced by the New Covenant.

3) You want to live like gentiles, talk like gentiles, eat like gentiles, walk like gentiles... and yet you want the "cool parts" of the Israelite contract, namely TITHING because then you can really put the screws to the people and demand their 10%. In reality, Israel had a number of Tithes, one of which was a savings account for the purchase of food and ALCOHOL so they could have a big party at the main festivals of the Lord!

4) You very likely keep the pagan festivals of Christmas and Easter (Ishtar) as you cast aside the Biblical festivals of Passover, Unleavened Bread, Shavuot, Rosh Hashanah, Sukkot, and Yom Kippur. Like Jeroboam, you set aside the appointed times of God in exchange for the pagan syncretism of Babylon!

5) You promote a false and devilish doctrine known as "replacement theology" when in fact God has ONE people, ONE agreement, ONE baptism, ONE salvation, and ONE Spirit. There is ONE Olive Tree, consisting of the cultivated olive branches (Israel), and all FORMER-gentile believers who are classified as WILD OLIVE BRANCHES, who have been grafted in, and are now joint-citizens in Israel, sharing in the blessings and promises of Abraham. There is ONE people, who are known as Israel, formed of all believers in Christ, for there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ, but only ONE new creation, and that new creation has a very Israelite distinctive, which is a direct reflection of God's heart and purpose.

6) TITHING is OLD TESTAMENT.... PERIOD!

7) GIVING from the HEART, as you are directed by the HOLY SPIRIT, is the NEW TESTAMENT... PERIOD! God does not have right to a mere 10%, or even 30%. NO, not at all! He has full rights to 100% of all your TIME, TALENT, and TREASURE, for you are no longer your own, for you have been BOUGHT with a PRICE... which is the blood of Jesus Christ. THIS is the TRUE Gospel message, and for those who are TRULY converted to Christ by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, you will know that what I say is true.

8) So, while some desire to mislead people with fine sounding words to tickle the ears, or with forceful threats that BEAT the people of God with false application of the Bible... the real truth is hardly ever being preached by anyone these days... and that is a crying shame... though it is a foretold sign of the "end of days."

The NEW way is simple to explain: In your heart, give everything to God, and then learn to "hear" his instructions so you can know how to deal with all of God's time, money and things!

From personal experience as a pastor and assistant pastor, there are days which there are never enough hours in a day. Time invested in people takes just that.....TIME. every try and get 100 people to look outside them selves and do something for someone OTHER than their family? Trust me, it takes time and DEEP persoanal relationship with the Father every ... single ... day just to be available to hear and be LEAD to what HE wants for that day.

reply to post by Komodo


I'm feeling you bro.... The fact that you have to TRY to get so-called Spirit filled Christians to look outside themselves is testament indeed.... You have to wonder if that they are at church just to fill Sunday or are even real... Sunday Christians huh??? .... There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth!...

Not sure if you've ever actually put on a pastors hat before, but if not, I deeply suggest you sincerly ask your Father in Heaven to direct you to a church where you can sit along side of a spirit filled, blood brought Christian pastor.

I have never been a Pastor/Rabbi bro..... I appreciate your sentiment, and think that people do need fellowship with one another, but I dont need a Pastor to shepherd me... As a Spirit filled Jew, having the Holy Spirit, I carry the church around me wherever I go.. God shepherds me, teaches me truth.. Why would I then need a pastor? That is what God intended from the beginning.. That He dwell in us... You wont hear that at a church though... To some church is a building that they can leave behind on a Sunday... Man have they got it wrong... Where you are, there is the church with Yeshua at the altar of your heart.... I do go to Messianic Synagogue.. But that is to stratagise with brothers and sisters on what we do in the community, and keep each other accountable and encouraged... Its not the whole deal though as some would have it!

reply to post by Yissachar1


It is NOT witchcraft. It is deciept. Lies. Distortions by a religion in power to use this idea to gain cash unto them selves. I am a witch. I know the difference. In the New Testament Jesus himself cast out the money changers from the temple! Jesus nver claimed to be fighting witchcraft, rather he was fighting the materialistic manipulation of religion in which one uses religion to profit.

reply to post by missvicky


I agree with you it is deceit and lies, which is what witchcraft is too... But Im with ya

reply to post by downisreallyup


Great post sir... Wish I could give you 10 stars for that!