It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Free market vs regulated market

page: 1
2

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 01:37 PM
link   
I assume most of You understand my tittle


i wanna ask your opinions about these two.
Because in my opinion big corps aim for free market just because there is no regulations in place which can and did lead us to situation like tooday.
Where rich get richer and middle class is destroyed.

in my opinion regulations were in place just to prevent such things ..
there was a regulation which was bought out by rockefeller to let corporations grow without need to serve the interest of america .

there was 90% tax for the richest which allowed these money to be used to help less fortunate and build up america.

what are your views and opinions. ill love to read them.


ps. im not very much active debater so ill respond only if needed i just want to hear regular man responses vs economists etc.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 01:54 PM
link   
There will never be such a thing as a "free market." For very good reasons there will always be some amount of regulation in place to prevent fraud and chaos.

I think the problem with the current system is that it encourages short sighted thinking. Executives are compensated with stock and stock options. It is in their best interest to pump up the price of the companies they manage in the short term, even if this means compromising the companies long term future or profits.

Leveraged buy outs are also a problem Currently, people that purchase companies using debt can deduct the interest they pay on debt. This encourages people to take out debt to buy companies, then pass on the debt to the companies they buy.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:27 PM
link   
Regulations are put in place to do exactly what has occurred. Monopolies.

Big Corps use regulations to stop competition.

Think of this with logic and common sense.

Who lobbies the government and institutes these regulations.

Think of farming, is not Monsanto and other Mega Corps taking over in that field?

How about the banking industry. Let me see, who is doing well in that?

Let us look at ANY component of the market system. Use logic and reason please.

Has Globalization helped? Making sovereign countries interdependant. How is that working out? Why do I get my beef and fruit from other countries? WHY?

When iit all falls apart, watch what happens!



Do you think more regulations are going to help? Really?

Cause problem, offer solution.

Deny Ignorance.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 03:16 PM
link   
reply to post by endisnighe
 


i must disagree all big corps did in last century was crushing regulations ...
glass steagal act?

our market looks like ferengi from startrek...

screw every one just for profit.

you have companies like montesito wich can reach even to these regulatiory commisions just to give em free pass with poisoning earth and people ...

i know beurocracy sux and its mostly blamed for all evil BUT w/o regulations where do you think corporations will stop?

at this moment i see that just few of them will be on top rulling the world and even causing wars betwen them (using us common people) just for profit.


i cant get into mind of a rich person why whould he need more money?
he has enough to but all pleasures he wants , he has enough money to have his family live w/o any work for centuries ... wtf do the want more? YES power ... they want us to be thier pessants.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 09:21 PM
link   
reply to post by reassor
 


Okay, I have several questions to ask you.

With supposed regulations to stop pollution, how is that going?

With supposed regulations to prevent monopolies, how is that going?

With supposed regulations to prevent poisons etc getting into our products, how is that going?

I could go on. Big Government and Big Business go hand in hand.

As for Glass-Steagal, how would have ONE reg prevented the meltdown. Also, who removed that reg? No, this meltdown was a product of a regulatory nightmare! So many regulations that the regulators had TOO much info and no frelling common sense! You CANNOT tie billions of different market components together by using these instruments they developed!

My God, you set up derivatives that tie everything together. WHO the frell came up with that idea?



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 09:42 PM
link   
I am totally for a NON REGULATED but TRANSPARENT MARKETPLACE.

1. If you saw all participants in the marketplace

- Could have RETAIL, INSTITUTION (with name of institution), PRIME BROKER

2. No dark pools of liquidity

3. All bid/ask/canceled orders listed and freely available after the close everyday.


This only covers the marketplace of course that is ALREADY REGULATED.

There is the OTC DERIVATIVE MARKET that will not be/never will be transparent or regulated. Good luck ever stopping that. People like us don't get to dip fingers into that marketplace.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 09:45 PM
link   
reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


See, you are a market man. I know the whole thing has to do with transparency and the ability to even evaluate a given component.

As you were saying about the components that the average person cannot touch, is that a free market? Hell no. It is ALL about market manipulation.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 09:56 PM
link   
reply to post by endisnighe
 


No, its totally a FREE MARKET to those goons. That's where you are wrong my friend. They are FREE TO DO AS THEY PLEASE. But manipulated? Well I don't know because its big money vs. big money - you can't manipulate another genius IMO - but that is up for debate. You can sell bunk securities but there is no receipt included for exchanges if you know what I mean.

Do I think that's right? No, obviously, but it is a way to manage risk for large institutions, HF's and countries. So... I dont know.. but they could lay off that risk in the ES (SP 500 Futures) or FOREX if they needed or even CL (light sweet crude).

It's hard to say really.

[edit on 28-2-2010 by GreenBicMan]



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 10:12 PM
link   
reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


Yes, I kind of know what you mean on the big guys.

The interconnectedness of the markets is the whole shebang in my mind.

I want a couple trillion to manipulate entire markets that the big boys do.

That is why I find the markets so frustrating. You have to be lucky to make the same moves as they do. Either that or make moves on the smaller fluctuations.

I only made one move, once. I got lucky, still living on it after 18 months. If the economies do not turn around, I am #ed.

As for the bunk securities, I know exactly what you mean.

I still have not seen an indicator in the oil markets. I love to try and see trends in the older markets to show what may happen in the future. Kind of a math/statistical modeler myself.

But like I said, I do not even know much about the markets, just like to try and model statistics.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 10:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


Yes, I kind of know what you mean on the big guys.

The interconnectedness of the markets is the whole shebang in my mind.

I want a couple trillion to manipulate entire markets that the big boys do.

That is why I find the markets so frustrating. You have to be lucky to make the same moves as they do. Either that or make moves on the smaller fluctuations.

I only made one move, once. I got lucky, still living on it after 18 months. If the economies do not turn around, I am #ed.

As for the bunk securities, I know exactly what you mean.

I still have not seen an indicator in the oil markets. I love to try and see trends in the older markets to show what may happen in the future. Kind of a math/statistical modeler myself.

But like I said, I do not even know much about the markets, just like to try and model statistics.


Thats pretty much what I do for 10 hours a day. Model trading algorithms etc. It's pretty interesting but lonely work - and it doesn't pay a dime if you dont have the funds to back it or you are not trading for an institution. You can guess what side I am on if you look to the left of my post.

Anymore you need to do what I do, or you need to learn to think like the pro's. That means playing things like XLY, XLE, XLF etc.

Learn rotation in markets and what sectors are doing well as opposed to others. Then you either play TREND or COUNTERTREND (if you are ballsy), or you find your niche. But realistically IMO either you get your money managed for you by a real professional, or you learn sector rotation and have a large bankroll.

You and I will never have the trillions to play with like JP and friends. We nibble at the crumbs, but you can get quite efficient at nibbling.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 10:36 PM
link   
It's not an either/or proposition. Some regulation, such as anti-trust law, helps keep markets free by breaking up monopolies, oligopolies and cartels, or by not letting them form through mergers and acquisition in the first place. Other regulation, such as forcing consumers to buy insurance from government approved vendors, makes markets less free.


We need more good regulation that encourages competition and drives prices down and less bad regulation that creates corps which are too big to fail and who have captive customer bases they can extort money from.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 10:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by Crito
It's not an either/or proposition. Some regulation, such as anti-trust law, helps keep markets free by breaking up monopolies, oligopolies and cartels, or by not letting them form through mergers and acquisition in the first place. Other regulation, such as forcing consumers to buy insurance from government approved vendors, makes markets less free.


We need more good regulation that encourages competition and drives prices down and less bad regulation that creates corps which are too big to fail and who have captive customer bases they can extort money from.


Well that just needed to be said again!



posted on Mar, 1 2010 @ 10:53 AM
link   
reply to post by Crito
 


and here i agree with you because with no regulations there will be only 1 corp in the end ...



posted on Mar, 1 2010 @ 11:01 AM
link   


How do you like that?

Hayek is right, Keynes is wrong.....'nuff said!




top topics



 
2

log in

join