The Origin of Orwellian Doublethink

Today I overheard a conversation where someone said "It doesn't matter if it is illegal, they are doing God's work." in response to a statement about illegally executing suspected terrorist. My first thought was, jeez, the islamic terrorist are probably saying the same thing. Then I thought, "but didn't Jesus say to turn the other cheek?" That is when I realized that christianity is the ultimate embodiement of doublethink, mastered hundreds of years befor George Orwell was born.

Christianity alone out of the big three has an old testament and a new testament. The difference between the two is obvious, with the old testament God being vengeful, jealous, and testing his subjects such as the way he tested Abraham. In Contrast Jesus says to love your neighbors unconditionally.

Both of these views are embodied in God, being one God in three aspects. Therefore God can say, an eye for an eye, and turn the other cheek, back to back without contradiction in the eyes of the followers.

When I first read 1984 in highschool I was intrigued by the idea of doublethink, and was quite convinced that it could never work the way he described. However as I look around at good Christians that talk about loving everyone, and then turn around and discriminate against foreigners, gays, and anyone else that doesn't look, think, act and speak like they do I truly understand how Winston felt.

Great post s & f
I re-read 1984 last year and the prophetic nature of this book makes your blood run cold.
I had not tied "doublethink" in with religion before - but you have hit the nail on the head.

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from wikipedia - Definition of doublethink

To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which canceled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget, whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety; consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink.[1] ”

“ The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies — all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.

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Politicians are masters of it

Since reading the book again - I have seen "doublethink" everywhere in the media....a headline that says one thing (usually with an agenda wanting to lead the public one way, as most people are swayed by large print headline) followed by smallprint which says the opposite

For example
news.bbc.co.uk...

Headline : "Organic - Has No Health Benefits"

Further down in the text you find

"they report in their analysis that there are higher levels of beneficial nutrients in organic compared to non-organic foods"

Extraordinary link you've made , OP, between doublethink and christianity!

Wonderful work S&F

reply to post by Ozzy Mandias


You should read a little about religion before you start comapring it to double think, i could cherry pick arguments for the otherside to. Im not christian but even i knew this. "an eye for an eye" was originally in the OT but was also in the NT, however it is in the same book as "turn the other cheek.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matthew 5:38-39

So Jesus said

Hey guys you have been doing this eye for an eye thing but you really should turn the other cheek.
Zaiger translation

Not really doublethink, just being lazy and not taking the time to look into something before comparing it to doublethink.

Those closest places we have had to date of the place described in 1984, is Soviet Russia,Pol Pot's cambodia and North Korea. Religion was absent in all of these places and banned. So the origins of the orwellian double think is closer to the ideas and methods used in communist dictatorships which always happen to be led by athiests.


[edit on 28-2-2010 by zaiger]

The great thing of the bible is, .... theres a little of everything in it.

So people can pick and choose which passages will serve their agenda's.


They can say, " God is against drinking alcohol" it says so here and here.

When they become an alcoholic they can say " jesus made water into wine".

I think they just use the bible to justify whatever behavior's they partake in or support. it's like a " get out of jail free" card. But what they dont understand is, .... with or without the bible, they would still be who they are, and doing exactly what their doing, ... the bible only makes them feel better about it.

Great postulative work, intriguing and informative.
Many of the phenomena you point out: subjective memory, illogical conclusion, "doublethink" - have been observed by sociologists and the causal effect you attribute to christianity seems right on the mark IMO. As a reference on the sociological basis for this phenomena, I would refer you to Bob Altemeyer's "The Authoritarians" at www.theauthoritarians.com... (sorry, not sure about links yet)

Dr. Bob's is a widely published Canadian academic professor and "popular" author. "The Authoritarians" is by no means "dumbed down" in any way, but it does not have the rigorus form of academic papers, thus making it highly readable if you skip the statistical footnotes and references.

Again good job!

gj

reply to post by zaiger


The eye for an eye comparison was really just off the top of my head, so yes, lazy. However, I could go through the bible and pick out many direct contradictions. As InstellaBurst said, there are many portions of the bible that can be used to justify just about any argument. The theory of my first post is still valid.

I'm not really sure what you mean by cherry picking arguments. There are many social, religious and political institutions that employ double think. As Suziwong said it is quote prevalentt in media. It was probably around since cavemen started making fire, but in my opinion from what I've seen, no group of people have mastered the art the way Christianity has done so.

I did not start thris thread to bash Christianity, I just felt like sharing this revelation to me because I cannot think of a better example of doublethink, and it is hard to imagine just from reading 1984.

Let me reiterate, this is an example of doublethink, not the totalitarian society imagined in 1984. Yes some of the most heinous governments of the world were atheistic, I would say some were also religious, either way its off topic and has no relation to this thrread because it is aout the phenomena of doublethink not an argument for or against religion in government. In fact, I believe there was no religion in 1984, besides the worship of big brother.

And finally, i think the fact that an eye for an eye being in the OT and refuted in the NT is probably the best example of doublethink. The bible as a whole is taken as the word of God, so how can the OT be the word of God when Jesus refutes it? Oh because that is the Mystery of one God in three aspects.

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

WAR is PEACE

Long live Big Brother.

I like this idea S&F.

I've not really made a direct distinction to religion before but have often thought how it does run through all of our lives.

Politicians use it to make sound bites to convince us they are up to good and not to no good. Newspapers use it to tell us headlines of a story that really bares little resemblance to the story or even to the truth.


With all of the information technology we have at our disposal now I still find it odd that people will often take everything they are told or read at face value.

I can understand that we may have believed lies in the past but now we have more information than our local libraries on our phones to search though on the bus.

Muslim terrorism does do this to pervert the beautiful sentiments of Islam. Christian fundamentalists do it to pervert the peaceful and brotherly teachings of Jesus.

So yeah I can really see a religious doublespeak going on. You only have to look at some of the hate that is spouted in the name of Christianity to know that.


Good OP.

reply to post by suziwong


Having had read 1984 myself, i think this is the best explanation i ever read- i can see it all clearly now.

Thank you

reply to post by Ozzy Mandias


This just scrapes the surface. I was a Christian for a long time, and I totally get what you are saying. WHen I read 1984 all I could think about was the bible.
www.youtube.com... THis is a video (not made by me) that talks about doublethink being the cornerstone of Christianity. In fact, if you pick up any Christian apologetic book it also becomes very self evident. Here are some other things that Christianity has in common with Orwellian thought.
WAR IS PEACE.. the more wars there are, is interpretated to mean the sooner Jesus will return. It gives you peace. Also instead of Goldstein as the enemy, Christians have Satan. ANd whoeveer is not FOR jesus is against him (your enemy also).
Big Brother is watching you (omnipresent) ...Jeus is watching you, and can read your thoughts. Our fellow believers and Pastor are our thought police and church is our "Hate sessions"

It's not enough to love Jesus you MUST obey him.

Some CHristinas may argue that they wouldn't torture though, even though they have in the past. The threat of hell is used as a form of mental torture and intimidation. Fear can really make you BLANK out, epecially when it comes to thinking critically.

Freedom is Slavery...deny yourself (and hate the world) and pick up your cross and follow Jesus and he will set you free.

Ignorance is Strength...self censorship, the trinity (more doublethink) anti-science....and of course the tree of knowldge of good and evil. ANd theres the famous proverb that is the mantra of so many (including myself in the past) I know..."Lean not unto thine own understanding, but trust in the lord with on thine heart" There are lot's of scriptures that reinforce this idea. "Fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom" etc...

Their ministry of Love (the place with no darkness) is their Heaven. It is a point of inspiration for them, but upon arrival is a total nightmare. Christians are so preoccupied with getting there they have not considered the long term ramifications of it. Christopher Hitchens put it well when he compared it to an eternal North Korea where you would worship forever without the hope of death to escape.

I'm sure I could draw more parallels between the two, but these are some of the things that first come to mind.

Oh..."He who controls the the past. controls the future" That's an obvious one!....Church history, communion (remember me), and then there is the whole "America was founded upon Christianity" thing. (Ever hear of the Treaty of Tripoli article 11?)

Don't even get me started on how anti-capitalist the bible is..lol
Which, BTW is another example of how good at doublethinking Christians are.

And, as you pointed out already...their abillity to do amazing mental gymnastics when it comes to the relation of the NT to the OT. Like slavery for instance. The OT talks MUCH about it, endorsing it entirely.

The sad (and ironic) thing about this is, that Christians don't really have a moral argument against totalitarin dictators, only that they are against it IF it is not there dictator (Jesus).

Most, if not all, are waiting for Jesus to come and set up a GOV. for a 1000 years here on earth.
SO I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of statist theocracy is developed in the name of Jesus. After all, God is power....