Harry Reid Says Paying Income Tax Is Totally Voluntary

reply to post by endisnighe


I am sure you have already tried but seeking free counsel is prob. a good idea.

You should just "mow lawns" from now on if you know what I mean. That or change your name to "rusty shackleford" like Dale on King Of The Hill.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


agreed.. or 40 years in prison
2nd line

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Yeah, I do not know if I said it on this thread but I could become an Illegal Alien in my own country. Just need a SS number.

Either that or become part of the black market.

You know, the more I think about the US the more it resembles the USSR of old. People fed up with the gov and black markets sprouting up all over. More and more police, corruption.

Watch for lack of goods next.

Oh GAWD, not This old arguement Again!


Jeez people, when are you all going to get it through you addled little pates that In the context of the laws and regulations regarding the impositon and collection of Income tax, the term"Voluntary" refers NOT TO THE INDIVIDUAL'S CHOICE TO PAY AN IMPOSED INCOME TAX, BUT RATHER WHEN THAT TAX, MANDATED, BY LAW AND REGULATION, IS TO BE COLLECTED!



The fact that your employer has withheld money "for taxes" from your paycheck DOES NOT mean that you've actually Paid the taxes that you owe.!


As Mr. Reid attempted to point out, the difference between the tax system in the US and that of many other countries is that, in the US, the law requires that its citizens file a tax return to report to the government the amount of tax owed; you are "volunteering" the information regarding the extent of your tax obligation.


As opposed to having the government, itself "commandeer" a percentge of you salary, without consideration for individual circumstances. The government merely decides upon an amount to be paid by every citizen, and takes it "up front".



I'll make it even simpler:


US current "Voluntary" tax system; employer withholds 20% of your wage. You file a return showing that only 10% of your income is taxable under the law. You get the 10% over withheld back.



Non-"Voluntary" tax system: The government requires that your employer Remit 15% of your salary, per pay period to the government. Period. No tax returns, no loopholes, no "deductions". The set percentage of your salary is handed over to the government with no input from you. The End.




Granted, the use of the term "Voluntary" may, in the context of the tax laws, be unfamiliar to many (stemming largely I believe from the fact that this particulr iteration dervives from legalese that is at least a century old: language and usage change over time, ask any linguist).

But lack of familiarity is a form of Ignorance (Ignore-ance, get it?), and we should be all about Denying Ignorance!

Originally posted by endisnighe

Balance I owe the IRS 25k.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/80bc731da85d.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6456361bfe91.jpg[/atsimg]

First off, you were not "denied" a court hearing.

If you read the document you supplied, it explains that You Failed to show cause as to why a hearing was needed

For example, you cited the both 16th and the 13th Amendments But you failed to explain HOW the ammendment was relevant Specifically to the facts in your case. That's what they mean by refering to Rule 34(b)(4) and 34(b)(5).




Oh, and if you look at the documents you included, you'll see that you are the Petitioner and the IRS is the Respondent.



In the last past imaged, the judge ruled that although the law allowed the IRS to impose a penalty of up to $25,000, the judge DENIED the imposition of that penalty by the respondent,



"Although well made, the respondent's request for the imposition of of an I.R.C. (Internal Rvenue Code) section 6673 penalty will be denied,...




unless you, the Petitioner, continued to file motions that were considered specious and intended only to delay and/or impede the timely resolution of this matter.



"...but the Petitioner (you!) is admonished that the Court will consider imposing such a penalty should he in a future case advance positions similar to the positions advanced here."




So how do you figure that you owe the government $25,000.00?

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Bhadhidar]

removed because of wise acre

[edit on 3/7/2010 by endisnighe]

reply to post by endisnighe


I read your entire post. Twice.


And although you mention the the government "took" 25% of your retirement "off the top", you did not say how much your retirement was, nor how much that 25% amounted to.


And by saying that they "took" it, do you mean that you were actually assessed that amount, or that that was the amount withheld in-lieu of your filing a tax return?


Please see my earlier post, wherein I explained that "withholding" is not "payment".



Also, you are aware that, unless you are at least 59 1/2 years old, taking money out of your retirement fund, for any reason other than medical necessity or to "roll it over" into another qualified retirement fund, will subject you to tax on the withdrawl, and a 10% Federal penalty for Early Withdrawl. (Your State of residence may have also imposed a penalty on the early withdrawl. I know California's penalty is 2.5%).





Sorry if I mis-interpeted you, but I'm just working with what you provided in your post.

The only reference you provide, with regard to the possibility of owing $25,000 is the reference to that amount in the document you provided.

And as you acknowledge, that amount was not assessed.



Your denial of a court hearing, as you claim, per the included court document, seems to stem from the fact that you did not provide the Court with sufficient reason to believe that a hearing was warranted.


You claimed that the 16th Amendment was not properly ratified. But that issue has already been decided by prior trials and found not to be the case: the 16th Amendment has been ratified to the court's satisfaction.

You claimed that the 13th amendment somehow protects you from having to submit to the tax code. The courts have already ruled that compliance with the tax laws are not a form of slavery.


Unless, in your particular instance, you could show that the above was not the case, you had no case. And you did not show that to be true, so the court told you that you had no case.


Asked, and answered. Whether you (or I) like the answer or not.

I am just going to say this, I am not going to go into all the components of my case. It would easily be researched to discover who I was. I will say that my motions prior to these two were quite well researched and led to these two. The initial motion was determined earlier. The two that are mentioned were researched quite in depth and I believe I had an argument. The cases that are mentioned on his decision were part of my motion. I had expanded on previous arguments. I guess the judge decided that with the quality of my motions, he felt the case for frivolous delay was not warranted.

The monetary thing I will not get into because it is to easily traced, numbers are easier to tie into a case. That is why I removed dates and the numbers. So as my English friends like to say, piss off.

[edit on 3/7/2010 by endisnighe]

It's completely voluntary, only if you are a Democrat in the legislative branch of the government.

Otherwise, well, you gotta pay your taxes.

reply to post by liquidsmoke206


Haha! That is so true! He is a bumbling idiot and acts like all of us watching that interview are morons and can't OBVIOUSLY tell that he is full of %$@!

These people just keep getting more and more outrageous!

reply to post by Bhadhidar

As Mr. Reid attempted to point out, the difference between the tax system in the US and that of many other countries is that, in the US, the law requires that its citizens file a tax return to report to the government the amount of tax owed; you are "volunteering" the information regarding the extent of your tax obligation.

I loved this statement. So we are required to volunteer the information. Let's take a look at the definitions of volunteer and require.

Volunteer: Law. a person whose actions are not founded on any legal obligation so to act.

Require: to call for or exact as obligatory; ordain: The law requires annual income-tax returns. (NOTE: I love the example used!)

If volunteering under the law is not founded on any legal obligation, then how can they require you to do it?

[edit on 3/7/10 by Ferris.Bueller.II]

And to think it all started with George Washington (Freemason/Loyal to the Monarchy) and the whiskey rebellion. We were so stupid we actually thought we won the Revolutionary War. LMAO!

He certainly did get squirmy trying to back up his statement, didn't he?

To be fair, he is making this point, just couldn't do it very well.

Voluntary Income Tax

Definition: "A system of compliance that relies on individual citizens to report their income freely and voluntarily, calculate their tax liability correctly, and file a tax return on time," according to the Internal Revenue Service.

The income tax system is voluntary. That's because people are free to arrange their financial affairs in such a way to take advantage of any tax benefits. Voluntary does not mean that the tax laws don't apply to you. Voluntary means you can minimize your taxes by taking advantage of various deductions and tax credits.

Voluntary also means that you must tell the IRS what your tax liability is. And the only way to do that is to file a tax return.

I know it doesn't make sense in the way we're used to using the word, but that's what he's talking about, as several people have tried to explain.

Source

It's like the word "theory" in layman and scientific terms. They are two different things.

How many folks here have a job that allows you to deal only in cash with no consequences of reporting payment to the IRS by those you receive payment of services from?

How many folks here can convince your employer to not withhold taxes, medicare, social security from your compensation?

Very few I would guess. Just a thought.

While I'm not a supporter of income tax withholding, this business of voluntary payment of taxes is a weak argument.

Stopping at yellow traffic lights is voluntary too but fail to do it and maybe you'll be okay and maybe you'll be road pizza.

We have all been counted as assets of the state and if we try to crawl out of the box, there will be consequences. Not saying you shouldn't try but you bloody well better know what you're doing.