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9/11 Truth Movement Gaining Scientific Credibility

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posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by ImAPepper
 


Just courious.
How many, if any, include WTC 7 in their discussions and claim fire brought it down?



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by seethelight
reply to post by DCDAVECLARKE
 


Absolutely not true.

And btw., it was you that decided to claim that RT was trustworthy because the number of viewers it receives, not me.

If you can't live with the outcome of your flawed logic then think about what you say before you say it.

I dont know how old you are, but im guessing your a pup! iv been around the block a few times an iv never met anyone with the logic that you adhere to! Lets say 50,000, watched that at 8am, an the news is on roll every 1/2 hour all day! how many will see the real need for a trial an change there minds an see the truth that's staring them right in the face? id say a lot more than you would give credit for. by the way im an Artist with a city an guilds degree in building design! so i see that this hole scenario is a down right insult to my intelligence, and my colleagues all over the planet!

[edit on 28-2-2010 by DCDAVECLARKE]



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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Lotta anger here guys....and anger is poison!! Try and take the emotion out even if the other guy is a complete*&$@%&&I%$ idiot!!



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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S & F.

Watched the vid. He seemed a little nervous at first, then settled in. I will be reading every single reply tonight.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Sean48
 


I did answer your question. You just didn't read the answer.

6+ hours of uncontrolled fire made in collapse.

That's the question, right?

If there's another one I missed it.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by Alfie1
BoneZ, if a professional association, such as the American Society of Civil Engineers with 110,000 or so members, thought that NIST's findings were perverse would they not have a duty to speak out ?

I think your suggestion that they might be afraid to is absurd and totally unsubstantiated.

With all due respect, I don't care what you think. I don't deal with other peoples' thoughts. I deal with facts. And it's a fact that of the architects and engineers that have gone public, the majority are against the official fairy tale, period.

Until you or anyone else can provide a list of verifiable architects and engineers that exceeds the list of names at AE911T, then that's the end of that discussion.



Originally posted by Alfie1
Why would a Democrat president threaten people to cover up Republican crimes ?

Because the two-party system is just a front. The presidents are puppets being controlled by whatever criminals are in the background truly running the government. The same criminals that concocted 9/11, Operation Northwoods, and many other atrocities.




BoneZ, I don't care what you think either. I don't expect to convert you from your die-hard trutherism but there may be some undecided lurkers reading this stuff.

The position as I see it is that it is generally accepted in the wider world that the building collapses at the WTC were brought about by plane impact and subsequent fires. No-one seriously disputes this beyond your 1000 A&E members. This is insignificant so the mainstream engineering and architectural world takes no notice of it. For you to assume that all the other engineering and architectural professionals are cowering below the parapet just doesn't make any sense to me. Would there not be one with the courage to speak out. Even Nazi Germany did not have this sort of control.

Your idea that there is no difference between republican and democrat administrations, because of invisible forces working in the background, will be news to most US voters. Got any evidence for this. Like who comprise these forces ?



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by _BoneZ_
Sorry, but anyone can copy/paste a list of names from any engineering site. I want to see those names with links to their statements just as AE911T does. Oh, and that list is barely a fraction of the 1000 A&E's at AE911T, so yes: keep going.


I LOVE the Bio's @ AE911 Truth.. "I knew it was a controlled demolition because it looked like one!" Obviously I didn't read all 1078 of them. 6 or 7 is all I needed to laugh at.

I have to point this one out too:


I believe the NYC "disaster control center" bunker on the 23rd floor of Building 7 was the control center for the demolition of the towers.

www.ae911truth.org...

Wow... another genius that Gage has.



Here are a few bios of those that disagree with you and Charlatan Gage...

Dr. Kirkpatrick is a Principal Engineer with 21 years of experience in structural dynamics, failure analysis, finite element analysis, impact and blast/penetration mechanics, and vehicle crash worthiness. He has more than 40 publications in these areas. His research experience includes a wide range of government and commercial projects for rail, highway, civil, military, and aerospace applications. He has been a program leader for many studies requiring close collaboration between experimental and computational efforts with emphasis on model validation. Dr. Kirkpatrick was previously the PI for the ARA participation in the NIST WTC investigation in performing the aircraft impact analysis. Dr. Kirkpatrick has a doctorate in mechanical engineering from Stanford University.

Mr. Charles Needham is a Principal Engineer for the Southwest Division of ARA. He has experience with numerical hydrodynamics, shock, fireball and thermal effects modeling, conventional explosives and munitions effects and structure interaction, explosive safety and storage. He has 14 years specific experience with SHAMRC, a state-of-the-art hydrodynamic code for two- and three-dimensional fluid dynamics problems with applications for conventional munitions. Mr. Needham has a master’s degree in astrophysics from the University of New Mexico.

Dr. Mehdi Zharghamee is a Principal and Head of the Engineering Mechanics and Infrastructure Division at SGH and has 30 years of engineering experience in analysis and design of precision structures. He has been responsible for analysis, design, and failure investigation of complex structural and mechanical systems. Dr. Zarghamee has a doctorate in structural engineering from the University of Illinois and his S.M. in Mathematics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Dr. Omer Erbay is a Senior Engineer with SGH and has experience with the analysis of the structural response of the WTC towers to impact damage and fire conditions and structural analysis of buildings and bridge piers. Dr. Erbay has a doctorate in structural engineering from the University of Illinois.

Frank Kan, a Senior Project Manager, has been with SGH for 16 years. He has been involved in structural and seismic analysis, design, and investigation of buildings, bridges and special structures. Mr. Kan received his M.S. in Civil Engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Mr. Mark Loizeaux is CEO of LGI and President of CDI, and has been responsible for the design and performance of CDI’s projects since 1976, including the felling of major steel industrial, commercial and office buildings across the United States and internationally. Several of these buildings were major structures up to 439 ft tall, with column flanges ranging from 6 in. thick (laminated steel flanges) to 4 in. thick (hot-rolled flanges). His experience with steel structures includes the demolition of major steel bridges and construction and communication towers as tall as 1,200 ft. He is responsible for all aspects of CDI explosives demolition design and control of related consequences, including control of fly of debris, air overpressure, vibration and debris impact on surrounding structures. He has been recognized as an expert in demolition and explosives operations in U.S. Federal Court and the Courts of Australia.

Mehdi S. Zarghamee, a Principal and Head of the Engineering Mechanics and Infrastructure Division at SGH, has 30 years of engineering experience in analysis and design of precision structures. He has been responsible for analysis, design, and failure investigation of complex structural and mechanical systems. Dr. Zarghamee earned his Ph. D. in Structural Engineering from the University of Illinois and his S.M. in Mathematics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Glen Bell, Principal and Chief Executive Officer, has been with SGH for 28 years. Mr. Bell specializes in structural failure investigations and has extensive experience in earthquake engineering, structural design and rehabilitation. He received his B.S. degree in Civil Engineering from Tufts University and his M.S. in Structural Engineering and Structural Mechanics from the University of California at Berkeley.
Ronald Hamburger, a Principal at SGH, has 28 years of experience in civil and structural engineering, damage and forensic investigations, engineering research, building code and standards development and project management. He was a member of the Building Performance Assessment Team that investigated the collapse of the World Trade Center Buildings in New York. Mr. Hamburger received his M.B.A. from Golden Gate University and his B.S. and M.S. from the Polytechnic Institute of New York.

Pedro Sifre, Senior Project Manager, has 16 years of experience in high-rise building design and optimization of lateral load resisting systems. He received his B.S. in Civil Engineering and his M.S. in Aeronautics and Astronautics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and his M.S. in Structural Engineering from the University of California at Berkeley.

Atis Liepins, a Senior Associate has been with SGH for 25 years. He is an expert in the performance of finite element analysis, structural design, and failure analysis. Mr. Liepins received his S.B., S.M., and C.E. in Civil Engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.


[edit on 28-2-2010 by ImAPepper]



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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Let's put this Official Fairy Tale into context here. If these three building collapsed due to fire, don't you think that all similar structures throughout the world would have been thoroughly inspected, deemed unsafe and would require demolition or serious renovation to prevent such an occurrence from happening again? Do you really think the insurance carriers for these similar structures would continue to insure these landlords for fire if they are in danger of collapsing from any potential oxygen starved fires?

And one more question. Since these three building apparently collapsed due to a structural defect (steel buildings are supposed to be designed not to collapse during fire), were the construction companies who built these three buildings implicated for negligence and named as co-defendants in any subsequent legal action?

The point being, if the OS Fairy Tale was true, there would have been massive shockwaves sent throughout the construction and insurance industries causing them to radically rethink structural safety and insurance coverage. Since this did not happen, it speaks volumes about what really happened on that day.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by ImAPepper
 


Those are not bios, those are quotes of things people think. Maybe you need to look up biography. Anyway, thanks for that laugh. It reminds me of this -


I know it was the damage from the planes that made those buildings fall straight down because that is what I was told




OSers are hillarious. Believing that the buildings all collapsed due to fire.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
Let's put this Official Fairy Tale into context here. If these three building collapsed due to fire, don't you think that all similar structures throughout the world would have been thoroughly inspected, deemed unsafe and would require demolition or serious renovation to prevent such an occurrence from happening again?


Only one was from fire alone. 1 & 2 also had large planes fly into them.....




Do you really think the insurance carriers for these similar structures would continue to insure these landlords for fire if they are in danger of collapsing from any potential oxygen starved fires?


I love the oxygen starved fire charade. I noticed at least two VERY large holes on the sides of the WTC towers.




The point being, if the OS Fairy Tale was true, there would have been massive shockwaves sent throughout the construction and insurance industries causing them to radically rethink structural safety and insurance coverage. Since this did not happen, it speaks volumes about what really happened on that day.


Massive? Well, since the results of the NIST reports were released there were many recommendations to building constructions and I believe there were 12 code changes. The changes were incorporated into the 2007 supplement to the ICC's International Building Code (IBC). Additional changes were seen in January of 2009 IBC. You can go to NIST to see the implementing all of the NIST WTC recommendations: wtc.nist.gov....



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by K J Gunderson


Those are not bios, those are quotes of things people think. Maybe you need to look up biography. Anyway, thanks for that laugh. It reminds me of this -


Allow me to correct myself... they are personal statements within the members profiles @ AE 911 Truth.

Thank you KJ for pointing that out.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by ImAPepper

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
Let's put this Official Fairy Tale into context here. If these three building collapsed due to fire, don't you think that all similar structures throughout the world would have been thoroughly inspected, deemed unsafe and would require demolition or serious renovation to prevent such an occurrence from happening again?


Only one was from fire alone. 1 & 2 also had large planes fly into them.....


I'm sure it was a honest mistake .


But you didn't answer the question.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:25 PM
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"Your idea that there is no difference between republican and democrat administrations, because of invisible forces working in the background, will be news to most US voters."

Of course it's news to most US voters, since most are a bunch of idiots who do not know their ass from their elbow. Since the Dems took office, has the war effort been diminished. Have the three piece suit scumbags continued to get their handouts? What exactly has changed since Obama took office? Please enlighten me.

What these Architects and Engineers think is not really the gospel here. Just because you are an A&E does not mean you are above corruption, nor does it mean you have a properly functioning brain. In fact, considering the corporate corruption epidemic in the USA today, I a more inclined to believe a guy on the street than any suit who has nothing to gain and everything to lose by truthfully speaking his mind.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by ImAPepper

Allow me to correct myself... they are personal statements within the members profiles @ AE 911 Truth.

Thank you KJ for pointing that out.


Yeah um, why did you completely dodge the part about them being no different from you? You say things like "I believe the OS because" insert random non-evidence related item here. You ignored that part completely. If you want to pick on why people do not believe the OS. How about you just present the factual evidence that is the reason you do believe it? Your derision works both ways and that was what I was pointing out. Nice job in avoiding it completely.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by SphinxMontreal
 


The NIST send out several documents related to this exact question.

The reality is though, that most building get water before 6 hours of burning.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Sean48


I'm sure it was a honest mistake .


But you didn't answer the question.


Re-read it. I posted a link to where you can see all the code changes that came about since the reports on the WTC 1&2, WTC7, and the Pentagon. Let me ask you this; If there is a large fire in a building... will you stay in it?



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
"Your idea that there is no difference between republican and democrat administrations, because of invisible forces working in the background, will be news to most US voters."

Of course it's news to most US voters, since most are a bunch of idiots who do not know their ass from their elbow. Since the Dems took office, has the war effort been diminished. Have the three piece suit scumbags continued to get their handouts? What exactly has changed since Obama took office? Please enlighten me.

What these Architects and Engineers think is not really the gospel here. Just because you are an A&E does not mean you are above corruption, nor does it mean you have a properly functioning brain. In fact, considering the corporate corruption epidemic in the USA today, I a more inclined to believe a guy on the street than any suit who has nothing to gain and everything to lose by truthfully speaking his mind.


Interesting; can you please explain to me how these invisible forces supercede the president, congress and senate.? Please be specific.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
"Your idea that there is no difference between republican and democrat administrations, because of invisible forces working in the background, will be news to most US voters."

Of course it's news to most US voters, since most are a bunch of idiots who do not know their ass from their elbow. Since the Dems took office, has the war effort been diminished. Have the three piece suit scumbags continued to get their handouts? What exactly has changed since Obama took office? Please enlighten me.

What these Architects and Engineers think is not really the gospel here. Just because you are an A&E does not mean you are above corruption, nor does it mean you have a properly functioning brain. In fact, considering the corporate corruption epidemic in the USA today, I a more inclined to believe a guy on the street than any suit who has nothing to gain and everything to lose by truthfully speaking his mind.


Interesting; can you please explain to me how these invisible forces supercede the president, congress and senate.? Please be specific.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by K J Gunderson
Yeah um, why did you completely dodge the part about them being no different from you? You say things like "I believe the OS because" insert random non-evidence related item here. You ignored that part completely. If you want to pick on why people do not believe the OS. How about you just present the factual evidence that is the reason you do believe it? Your derision works both ways and that was what I was pointing out. Nice job in avoiding it completely.


I'm not avoiding anything, KJ. If you want to pick a CT ... start a thread or revive an old one. Let me know what one it is. I will be more than happy to join in on the discussion with you. I will supply facts and evidence to back up my claims. This thread is regarding the alleged credibility the scientific community is giving to the truthers..... I've yet to see it.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by ImAPepper
Only one was from fire alone. 1 & 2 also had large planes fly into them....

Yep and guess how much of the structure was intact in the impact zones? Around 85%. A 15% loss to a steel-structured highrise is insignificant. Therefore, the plane impacts were insignificant, just like the engineers who built the towers said.







 
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