Experiment could prove The Theory of General Relativity wrong...

reply to post by Shark_Feeder

Not claiming any proof here, but the idea has a base in physics. Not to mention the attention of several scientists(at least).

Fair enough - it has gained attention. But i can name a plethora of things that have "scientists" attention, and none of those things would be considered theories.

Please don't get me wrong, im not saying that i can prove Einstein is wrong, what im trying to say is that im angry at the way people pursue the quest to prove him right.

They abandon the scientific process, redefine a scientific theory, and hark on anyone who cries foul.

Yes, it's certainly possible. And in the definition of a theory its definitely a theory.

But it does not meet the definition of a scientific theory....yet there are those who don't care about the "details" and just want to prop Einstein up and put him above the rules.

If "scientists" were to follow their own universally accepted set of rules and come to the same conclusions that it *IS* a scientific theory - then i could accept it.

But they wont. And they get angry whenever someone asks why.

To me, that says all i need to know about the "theory"

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


sorry i wasnt clear enough in my post, by "it" i was not referring to a holographic theory

i was referring to Alberts T.O.R.

i think i just copy/pasted the wrong paragraph in my reply to your post.

[edit on 26-2-2010 by Snarf]

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by Shark_Feeder

 

Not claiming any proof here, but the idea has a base in physics. Not to mention the attention of several scientists(at least).

Fair enough - it has gained attention. But i can name a plethora of things that have "scientists" attention, and none of those things would be considered theories.

I actually think you are right here. From what I have been reading for it to actually be considered a Scientific Theory there has to be an equation to work with. I am probably wrong there I have just been reading over this subject the last week.

Please don't get me wrong, im not saying that i can prove Einstein is wrong, what im trying to say is that im angry at the way people pursue the quest to prove him right.

They abandon the scientific process, redefine a scientific theory, and hark on anyone who cries foul.

Well I agree with you, but I think it is more like they assume that Einstein was right.

Its a symptom of our broken system most will not question long held truths for fear of losing reputation or possibly even title among the scientific community. I think this is what happens when you tie politics(and religion) to the neck of science.

reply to post by Snarf

Can you point out the flaws in the Hafele and Keating experiment (replicated in 1996 by the National Physical Laboratory) please? Other than "they cheated". If the results were different from what they were, Einstein would have been proven wrong. He was not.

Can you explain why the clocks in the GPS satellites must be slowed down by a very precise amount prior to launch if not to compensate for relativistic effects between them and the ground reference stations?

Can you explain why the software on the GPS satellites provides relativity adjusted timestamps for GPS receivers?

Time dilation is falsifiable, has been demonstrated, and its practical applications are in use.

[edit on 2/26/2010 by Phage]

no lie, reading you guys debate and collaborate is such an inspiration. Im trying to aim for physics right now for uni, and watching you guys going at it motivates me and it definitely made my choice to go for it. Good job everyone haha dont mind me, just wanted to mention it.

reply to post by Phage


Not to speak out of turn but I think he is trying to point to out the hypocrisy of believing anything 100% in the fields of physics. The only solid truth is we really know nothing, and there are admitted "flaws" or "gaps" in the Theory of General Relativity.

I am sure I will be corrected here if I am mistaken.

reply to post by Shark_Feeder

Yes.

And there are thousands of physicists who would love to find one of the problems and get a hold of it. So far, all of the falsifiable (at this point in time) aspects, including time dilation, have held up. If and when someone proves just one part of the theory wrong it will put physics on its ear and they will be as renowned as Einstein and Newton. But it will take some very strong evidence and they will be subjected to very close scrutiny, just as Einstein was. That's the way it works. It isn't resistance to new ideas it's a demand for evidence.


[edit on 2/26/2010 by Phage]

reply to post by Shark_Feeder

Well I agree with you, but I think it is more like they assume that Einstein was right.

And that, for me, its perfectly acceptable.

I assume that God exists, and i believe in Jesus Christ because i assume that he was the son of God.

But im not going to get into a debate with a "scientist" and claim that i have a scientific theory that can prove God exists....because there is no way - within the confines of what makes a scientific theory...scientific....to prove my theory. Therefore it's not falsifiable.

Its a cop-out.

Thats why i choose to separate science from religion. I look at science differently.

But im not the one who created the rules of what makes it a theory.

And anyone who vehemently insists that it is, without any credible experimentation that is not able to be labeled as "tamper-proof" is no better than a bible-thumping bi-cycle riding, door knocking, annoying servant going door to door to tell us we're all sinners.


I guess it comes down more to a personal grievance that i have with the people who adhere to it like some kind of dogma.

They create their prissy little rules, then break them whenever they want to, to pass their own stubborn agendas.


[edit on 26-2-2010 by Snarf]

reply to post by Phage


You could also put physics on its' proverbial rear end(not to mention win a Nobel prize) by filling in those holes, or linking it all together into a Unified Field Theory.

That is my true hope for the subjects of the experiments being discussed here, maybe even seeing some results within my lifetime...nah more than likely you will see Theories defended as a religion, rather then seeing any serious organized attempts to fit them all together.

I personally think that is the secret; Relativity, Quantum Physics, M Theory, String Theory, The Electric Universe Model, Newtonian Physics; each holds a piece of the truth. The masterpiece won't become clear until we put all the pieces together.

Originally posted by Shark_Feeder
reply to post by Phage

 

Not to speak out of turn but I think he is trying to point to out the hypocrisy of believing anything 100% in the fields of physics. The only solid truth is we really know nothing, and there are admitted "flaws" or "gaps" in the Theory of General Relativity.

I am sure I will be corrected here if I am mistaken.

Yes, any theory that is believed 100%, especially when there are admitted limits to said theory that cannot be explained or accounted for, is pure foolishness. Unfortunately, the discipline is overrun with such fools.

You always hope for an idealistic youth to come to the forefront with brilliant and paradigm shattering viewpoints to lead us our of this recent dark ages imposed by the naysayers who find comfort within a box.

What did the Germans do to gain all of their insight between WWI and WWII? What was it that pushed such creative and outstanding science? Unless it was driven by immoral or illegal behavior, perhaps that is what should be looked for. Was it an "anything goes" attitude at research? Was it the approach to education? I think these are two critical failure of the US system, and i think that these failures are put in place as known failures. It is easy to hide information if you don't allow people to get beyond a certain level of knowledge.

reply to post by Shark_Feeder


I could be wrong, but i believe there were equations associated with the effect.

The effect was detected by the lab, and they were unsure what was causing it. They were attributing it to noise, but they were unable to determine where the noise was coming from (which, if it were noise without an identifiable source, it would be one heck of a boost for the concept of entropy).

Then this guy calls them up and says, "Hey, i have been running through some numbers, and have this question: you guys are splitting this laser and all that, right? Have you seen a difference in the arrival characteristics that are out of place for the split beam?"

They said, "Why, yes. Yes we do."

And the rest is history. I would assume that he had predicted the effect mathematically, but could be wrong.

(the above "re-enactment" was a poorly written dramatization ).

reply to post by Shark_Feeder

So, now it's official: there is truth to gravito-magnetic effects. "Biefeld-Brown" anyone? So many prior private inventors are now proven correct. Yes, I agree with someone previously in this thread who suggested this is all too coincidental a release NOT to be a leak.

This opens up many windows. Ponder the following sequence of events:

1 Supreme Court decides only weeks ago that corporations are persons and can donate without cap (so they now can openly shape America's political and Industrial policies)
2 Obama reassigns DARPA to pure research. Now DARPA's tek advances can now be handed over to private industry)
3 NASA space operations were recently privatized. Now space exploration is unleashed in the hands of highly focused private enterprises. Lockheed-Krupp-Mitshubishi anyone?

With these three open doors, plus the new technology, in 2 to 3 years we can expect to see a quick Bye-Bye to Newtonian chemical rocket propulsion and a transition to magneto-gravitic space craft propulsion!! Especially with Room Temp superconductors, and quantum computers, becoming available soon (Capitola Drones, PARC, ISAAC?!!!).

By 2012----1 week travel time to Mars! Warp to Alpha-centauri! By 2020 - quantum entaglement teleportation. We are now really on the up-leg of an exponential technology explosion. (And just in time!!! imho-another thread)




[edit on 26-2-2010 by havanaja]

[edit on 26-2-2010 by havanaja]

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

What did the Germans do to gain all of their insight between WWI and WWII? What was it that pushed such creative and outstanding science? Unless it was driven by immoral or illegal behavior, perhaps that is what should be looked for.

I disagree here, I have always believed that science(ideally) should be guided by ethics. If nothing else for the good of our species, and the globe.

Was it an "anything goes" attitude at research? Was it the approach to education? I think these are two critical failure of the US system, and i think that these failures are put in place as known failures.

The "anything goes" attitude was the source of many atrocities.

However the advancements were the results of investment and improvements for education and research into the scientific fields.

The same could be said of NASA and the military in this country...now more so the military as NASA is running on a budget fit for a Shriner's convention.

Originally posted by JBA2848

They conducted experiments for both cases, +DC 18kv and - DC 18kv applied to electrodes of the capacitor.

The experiment should of been done +18kv to 0kv to take measurements. +18kv to -18kv seems like it might have multiplied the measuerments. There should be a neutral point mearsured of +1 0 -1. you get the negative 1 results from zero measurement of 1 and you get the positive measurement of 1. +1 to -1 you get measurement for 3 +1,0 and -1. Exponential growth by going from negative to positive and no way to know if negative voltage adds to weight and positive voltage reduces weight with out a zero point.

conducting the experiment at 0kv is the equivalent to listing the weight of the capacitor. I imagine they knew how heavy the capacitor was from the start.

-rrr

So what happened to the Gravity Probe B results? I heard they were null, but then I heard that the effects of a "nearby" massive object might have interferred with the readings. And this spawned a whole slew of Nibiru type of bovine scatology....

What happened to Gravity Probe-B?...... That is the question.

Gravity Probe B

[edit on 26-2-2010 by Kratos40]

Originally posted by Phage
The experiment was conducted 4 years ago.
news.softpedia.com...

Tajmar's results have not been duplicated.

Is this because somebody tried to duplicate it and failed or because nobody has tried?

The distinction is pretty important.

-rrr

reply to post by Kratos40


Let me play the paranoia card here. Which is worse for TPTB the populace believing in Planet X, or the "peons" beginning to have an understanding of how backwards our current industrial regimes are.

Ok, taking off my tinfoil top hat. Perhaps the "massive object" is their attempt to explain away an effect that would change everything they "know" about the universe.

I once said "I don't believe in conspiracies, but I do believe in greed" now I realize that greed and great power quickly lead to the foundations of "conspiracies".

No one wants to give up what they see as "theirs". No matter how much, or how little of the world they are claiming.

reply to post by Shark_Feeder



Well thank you for your response on the conspiracy part. I never believed that b.s. anyway. But do you know what happened to the results from Gravity Probe B? I heard a another story that the gyroscopes with their ultra-smooth spheres malfunctioned. But I cannot find the original article.

reply to post by Snarf


What do you have to say about Age?

Factor that in.

reply to post by Kratos40


If I am not mistaken this is the website for Gravity Probe B...

Gravity Probe B Project

A lot of information on their research, too much for me to sort through right now.

I did notice that their latest update is from November 2009.

[edit on 26-2-2010 by Shark_Feeder]