The Destroyer Star & The Future of Mankind

reply to post by littlebunny


I don't recall an agreement. I recall the challenge and you balked. I also showed that your video was a false representation of a planet sized object. A planet-sized object is a reference to its mass, not its dimensions. I showed a link to a page describing that part of a comet was 70x the dimensions of the sun. That link shows that dimensions are not an important measure of the size of an object. The mass is important.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by littlebunny

 

I don't recall an agreement. I recall the challenge and you balked.

Really .. Looks like you lied about Lucus and now everyone knows it ! I guess we have nothing further to talk about.


--Charles Marcello






[edit on 9-5-2010 by littlebunny]

Stereologist... Let me firstly say that I can understand your POV. You are a scientist, and you like to formulate your scientific worldview based on tested and checked factual data. I am similarly inclined to want evidence wherever possible.

One thing we seem to differ on is the level to which we are prepared to debase the value of the opinions of others - this whole concept of the 'ad hominem' attacks that you seem to base much of your content around, does ZERO to further your cause. In fact, your flame attacks and - let's face it - generally patronising attitude, actually inhibits progress towards the generation of a more scientific worldview amongst thinkers who formerly leaned to the esoteric and intangible for the basic tenets of their belief system.

You and Little Bunny seem to have come to a stalemate (in his favour at this time), but I assure you I'm not trying to demean you or your position. Having not seen any of Lucas or his website, I can't comment on your argument.

My thoughts now are primarily concerned with the whole debate about whether or not Nibiru is or isn't visible, and what that means for the actual possibility of its existence (and thus the existence of the Anuna / Annunaki), but I'm not trying to convince anyone, or evidence it, as my thoughts on the matter are purely speculative and untestable at this time. I made a comment (possibly on another thread) about the cloaking devices being tested by the US military, for quite some years now if memory serves. Bear in mind this modern expression of the desire to achieve a cloaking device technology - it would obviously entail a specific strategic advantage in a conflict scenario if we could successfully develop such.

If the Hindu vedic scriptures are to be believed as representative of the true political and technological state of the ancient Indo-Europeans (and traditionally the Indian scribes are held to have been fastidious in their standards of truthfulness and accuracy, within the limitations of their understanding), then the 'cloaking device' was a tried and tested, well known technology amongst the vimanas (aerial vehicles capable of extraordinary flight maneuvers - UFOs in modern parlance) of the 'gods' they wrote about. Additionally, let's assume for a second that the legends of technological flesh & blood/ possibly extra-dimensional gods in Sumeria, Egypt, India etc are true (to what degree we don't need to worry about in this argument). This leaves us with the worrying possibility that - if the Anuna exist, having apparently had a 'cloaking' technology several thousand years ago (at least 6000) - then by now, their WHOLE PLANET (Nibiru) could be cloaked.

Surely, if we had access to near-unlimited resources and thousands of years to develop from where we are now, even we on Earth could manage to visually cloak our own planet. Given the staggering rate of technological achievement that we humans have managed in a little over 100 years, it stands to reason that the Anuna/ Annunaki (with many thousands of years to play with, as well as a blatant technological 'head start') could quite comfortably make themselves undetectable to our (comparatively inferior) technologies. Such a 'cloaking' would enable an understanding of why our data suggests that a tenth planet is causing orbital perturbations for Neptune (and others), and yet we have not located it at this time, despite carefully looking for it. The data I refer to (no references at present, should be able to locate them though) seem to show that the suspected culprit planet would have a retrograde orbit; that it would be coming from the 'southern skies'; that it would have a planar orbit offset from our own by a 30 degree S-N inclination, with the bulk of the orbit 'beneath' the general orbital plane of our own solar system and the familiar planets. Pluto is no longer considered a planet, and so its inclination relative to the system plane is irrelevant...

I reiterate that this is (currently) untestable speculation - instead, it is a logical argument based on a couple of 'givens' that cannot be proven accurate until sources have been checked, presented in a future thread detailed at the foot of this post, then rechecked by others... In my humble opinion, logic would seem to suggest that the potential for a 'cloaked Nibiru' is very real. My 'cloaking theory' (I hazard 'my theory' loosely; I don't know if anyone else has suggested it, though I guess they probably have) would comfortably explain why we haven't visually located Nibiru.

I wonder (borrowing from Sitchin's thoughts in "Genesis Revisited") whether the alliance between the Soviets and US, which was somewhat hastily thrown together in the late 80's, and which was accompanied by a climbdown from the Soviet opposition to the American SDI (Strategic Defense Initiative); I wonder whether the forming of said alliance has anything to do with the serious contemplation at governmental levels of "An Extraterrestrial threat to Earth from another planet out in Space".... Speech marks are there because I'm quoting Reagan himself (paraphrased); he made statements to that effect two or three times; the Soviet foreign secretary made a near-identical statement to press shortly afterwards.

Interesting times. I've decided to do some proper research on the idea that the ancients had a greater understanding of astronomy (incorporating planets such as Neptune and Uranus). I'm convinced I've seen some thoroughly confirmed evidence somewhere, but it will take me a while to dig it out, recheck it and write up a decent report. If you like, I'll start a new thread when I'm ready to present the data, in order to start from scratch with everyone participating without so many personal attacks and ad hominem negativity going on.

Stereologist, what say you..? I would be happy to have you as a debating opponent on a fresh thread, as long as you keep it nice. That includes not rubbishing the people or sources I quote, even if you disagree with them.

Noah.

reply to post by NoahTheSumerian


Let's say that the cloaking device you claim the military is working on is able to cloak a planet. By that we mean we are unable to see that planet regardless of how near or far it is from us. It can't be seen in the UV, optical, infrared, or any other wavelength. Furthermore, we must assume that such a device prevents the planet from obscuring background observations so that we don't detect its presence because it passes in front of other things.

Such a 'cloaking' would enable an understanding of why our data suggests that a tenth planet is causing orbital perturbations for Neptune (and others), and yet we have not located it at this time, despite carefully looking for it.

The problem is that there are no unaccounted for orbital perturbations of Neptune or any of the other planets. A retrograde orbit does not mean it is comes from the southern skies. It means that the orbit is in the orientation opposite to the orientations of the other planets. In fact, the orientation of the orbit is not of importance in detecting or not detecting a new planet.

In my humble opinion, logic would seem to suggest that the potential for a 'cloaked Nibiru' is very real.

That's a little over the top. I think it is better to say that if there exists a technology that allows for cloaking of an entire planet, then could this object be near without us being able to detect it?

The answer to that is yes. Cloaking cannot cover up that the orbits of the planets would be perturbed by the presence of a new large gravitation source in the solar system.

Today's measurements of the orbits of the known planets make it very clear that there are no large planet sized objects nearby. A cloaked planet still leaves evidence of its presence because it has mass and therefore gravity.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by NoahTheSumerian

 

Let's say that the cloaking device you claim the military is working on is able to cloak a planet. By that we mean we are unable to see that planet regardless of how near or far it is from us. It can't be seen in the UV, optical, infrared, or any other wavelength. Furthermore, we must assume that such a device prevents the planet from obscuring background observations so that we don't detect its presence because it passes in front of other things.

Such a 'cloaking' would enable an understanding of why our data suggests that a tenth planet is causing orbital perturbations for Neptune (and others), and yet we have not located it at this time, despite carefully looking for it.

The problem is that there are no unaccounted for orbital perturbations of Neptune or any of the other planets. A retrograde orbit does not mean it is comes from the southern skies. It means that the orbit is in the orientation opposite to the orientations of the other planets. In fact, the orientation of the orbit is not of importance in detecting or not detecting a new planet.

In my humble opinion, logic would seem to suggest that the potential for a 'cloaked Nibiru' is very real.

That's a little over the top. I think it is better to say that if there exists a technology that allows for cloaking of an entire planet, then could this object be near without us being able to detect it?

The answer to that is yes. Cloaking cannot cover up that the orbits of the planets would be perturbed by the presence of a new large gravitation source in the solar system.

Today's measurements of the orbits of the known planets make it very clear that there are no large planet sized objects nearby. A cloaked planet still leaves evidence of its presence because it has mass and therefore gravity.

Okay - firstly, I never indicated that retrograde meant anything other than the definition you have given above. Please give me a little credit - I knew what retrograde meant, and the context of my statement doesn't indicate anything other than what it was intended to - that is that the orbit is retrograde, and the planet would be approaching from the Southern skies.

Secondly - it's pretty obvious that any obfuscation device on any scale would have to be a complex system of mirrored light bending, perhaps done using 'granular' mirroring devices on the nano scale. The stars and objects behind it would be refracted round the planet/starship to give the impression that you were seeing a clear area of space.

Thirdly - I will have to check into your assertion that there are no perturbations, because as I understood it, there are. The problem as far as I was aware had not yet been resolved, and instead had been essentially brushed over by attributing the anomalous data to known bodies or inaccuracies in the measurements. I will retract my assertion regarding the perturbations until such a time as I've fully researched the point. This doesn't negate most of my argument, as it depends on the ability of an incredibly advanced culture to manipulate the very fabric of the universe in their favour, as well as a bunch of crafty optical illusions. I would relish the opportunity to theorise further - and will do so - I'll tackle it as part of the new thread I mentioned before.

Fourthly - yet again, you have taken an approach that doesn't seek to engage; only to assert. You refuse to even consider adjusting your position and instead say "that's a little over the top" as though somehow that statement is intended to prove the hypothesis wrong. Simply put, you haven't acknowledged that the technologies employed would doubtless be 'light years' (apologies for the cliche) ahead of our own. Imagine asking Isaac Newton to formulate a theory regarding quantum mechanics when he had just about got to grips with classical 'Newtonian' physics. It's a stretch, even for the most brilliant minds, to fully envisage the potential of high technologies without many rational, incremental advances in the THOUSANDS of years of potential developmental time we are theorising.

Therefore, when you say that "cloaking cannot cover up that the orbits of the planets would be perturbed by the presence of a new large gravitation source in the solar system" - the reality is that the statement only applies to OUR understanding of how such a technology might work. Anti-gravity is being researched by the human race in the twenty-first century, less than 200 years after the invention of the internal combustion engine. The TIMING is what's critical to this theoretical argument.

(i) Given the leisurely environment afforded by an advanced culture, none of us can state definitively what can or cannot be achieved after eons of scientific research. (/i)

I would urge that you concede (at the very least) the plain truth of that statement. It is truthful and realistic; it is indeed highly likely - given our experience of our own technological development - that if a society reaches an economic and cultural equilibrium, without external threat, that they will continue to advance exponentially in their understanding of and control over the elements and forces of the universe.

Thoughts?


Noah.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by NoahTheSumerian

 

That's a little over the top. I think it is better to say that if there exists a technology that allows for cloaking of an entire planet, then could this object be near without us being able to detect it?

The answer to that is yes.

LMAO - I think you mean 'no'...? Unless that was a cheeky nod to the truth of the repeated suggestion that you're an informed disinfo agent. I jest; it matters not to me either way.

reply to post by NoahTheSumerian


I forgot to proofread after I typed. That is funny. I'll leave the error in the post just to remind me to proof read. Thanks for pointing that out.

That is a funny blunder. Good call! Cheers.

Yeah the Annunaki can cloak their entire planet yet they have to come to planet Earth to mine gold?

These discussions spiral off into such nonsense.

reply to post by stereologist


Here is the problem with the perturbations. Some sites and videos, cherry pick old and out dated research concerning perturbations. In the 1980s there was quite a bit of discussion on the measured orbits of the planets. You can check some sources and see if any articles are listed after around 1987. You'd think that 30 years later there might be an update. Well, there is. Better measurements of the paths of the planets in the 90s showed that the issue was measurement error. I prefer to say measurement precision.

Remember that every object no matter how big or small has gravity. A comet has gravity. So does a dog and the computer screen in front of you. The current level of precision of measurements tells us that no new planets can be close. Things like comets and dogs and computer screens cause effects, but the effects are so small that they cannot be detected. A planet could be detected, if, and this is important, if it is close enough. I don't believe we can detect the effects of the Andromeda galaxy on our solar system. It's huge. It's massive. It's also really far away. One of the things astronomers can do is determine how far away different sized objects have to be to avoid being detected.

Here is an easy to understand article that discusses the issue of detecting something by looking for gravity effects.
Constraining the Orbits of Planet X and Nemesis

By the 1970's and 80's modern observation techniques proved that the original perturbations in Uranus' orbit were measurement error and not being caused by a massive planetary body.

To cut a long story short, if a massive planetary body or a small binary sibling of the Sun were close to us, we would notice their gravitational influence in the orbital dynamics of the planets. There may be some indirect indications that a small planetary body might be shaping the Kuiper Cliff, and that a binary partner of the Sun might be disturbing the Oort Cloud every 25 million years or so (relating to the cyclical mass extinctions in Earth's history, possibly caused by comet impacts), but hard astronomical proof has yet to be found.

I don't think the wrangling about the measurements was resolved till the early 90s, but that discussion was probably based on measurements done well before then as suggested by the article.

In your 4th point you suggest that I am asserting. In fact, I was asking more for a middle ground. You claimed "very real". I think "can't be ruled out" is more of a middle ground. Do you or don't you? Remember that this is based on conjecture piled on top of conjecture.

I'm not clear on why an advanced civilization would want to cloak itself.

You also want to shut down gravity. If you do that, then the planet has to driven through its orbit since gravity won't propel it.

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


Man you're late to the party. I for one don't believe that gold mining was their primary intention; it seems to have been a side interest - who knows what uses they may have had for the metal. I'm intrigued by the idea of monatomic gold powder, but haven't had chance to research it properly yet - there are some interesting indications in the following video; however, there's contention regarding the validity of this man's research and his commercial motivations etc:

video.google.com...#

With all due respect, please don't drop in so late and throw sarcastic assertions around when you obviously haven't thought very deeply about any of the issues involved..?

Originally posted by NoahTheSumerian
reply to post by Zosynspiracy

 

Man you're late to the party. I for one don't believe that gold mining was their primary intention; it seems to have been a side interest - who knows what uses they may have had for the metal. I'm intrigued by the idea of monatomic gold powder, but haven't had chance to research it properly yet - there are some interesting indications in the following video; however, there's contention regarding the validity of this man's research and his commercial motivations etc:

video.google.com...#

With all due respect, please don't drop in so late and throw sarcastic assertions around when you obviously haven't thought very deeply about any of the issues involved..?

So what? You want him to not post at all or something?
You have to admit the idea of a cloaked planet searching for slaves to mind gold sounds ridiculous, and this IS the belief of quite a few people who believe in nibiru.

reply to post by stereologist


Well, when I said they were advanced and culturally balanced, I didn't necessarily mean they don't view us as a potential threat. If they did 'create us' and use us as slaves for millennia, they might reasonably think we'd harbour a grudge...?

The 'Tower of Babel' story seems to suggest that they were adverse to the idea that we could seek to progress into a state of advanced societal harmony, lest we become capable of challenging their supremacy. I'm interested to double-check Sitchin's interpretation of the word 'Shem' as 'spacecraft', as opposed to the traditional interpretation applied by biblical translators ('name').

If he is correct, it would seem that the Anuna / Anunnaki took an executive decision that it was too soon for humans to enter the 'space race'..?

Anyway, I think there's reasonable chance that they're approaching with caution, given the potential for an armed response (not that we'd be able to put up much of a fight); perhaps their motives are covert (to let us carry on developing by ourselves for a few more thousand years); perhaps they want to control the peaceful dissemination of the awareness of their presence, sending their ambassadors on ahead to coordinate with our leaders..! Who knows.

reply to post by hippomchippo


No, I don't want him to 'not post' - just to try to weigh up additional details in a more objective manner beforehand... Which I guess is perfectly reasonable if we're to prevent the thread from devolving into argument and mud-slinging..? I didn't insult the guy, just pointed out that he hadn't particularly enhanced the debate.

Plus, if I can point out one more thing - you haven't researched the details either..? They don't 'search for slaves'... They allegedly created a hybrid race (us) to do the lion's share of the physical labour (not just gold mining), allowing them a life of repose/luxury.

So anyway - I haven't insulted anyone, and I have done my research (or at least started it). Let's keep it real.


Noah.

Originally posted by NoahTheSumerian
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

No, I don't want him to 'not post' - just to try to weigh up additional details in a more objective manner beforehand... Which I guess is perfectly reasonable if we're to prevent the thread from devolving into argument and mud-slinging..? I didn't insult the guy, just pointed out that he hadn't particularly enhanced the debate.

Plus, if I can point out one more thing - you haven't researched the details either..? They don't 'search for slaves'... They allegedly created a hybrid race (us) to do the lion's share of the physical labour (not just gold mining), allowing them a life of repose/luxury.

So anyway - I haven't insulted anyone, and I have done my research (or at least started it). Let's keep it real.


Noah.

Oh, that makes it better then, they created us instead of simply using us, why does that matter?
Why cloak a planet if you're using slaves with low tech and you have the power to cloak a planet?
It's ridiculous in all regards, I don't know how someone like you could believe in this.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by stereologist

 

Here is the problem with the perturbations. ...... etc ......

* I don't dispute your explanation of the problems, and will certainly be looking into the matter more closely *

Here is an easy to understand article that discusses the issue of detecting something by looking for gravity effects.

* You can link me to a complicated article as well if you like; I'm reasonably mathematically adept I will of course check out this article later on.

In your 4th point you suggest that I am asserting. In fact, I was asking more for a middle ground. You claimed "very real". I think "can't be ruled out" is more of a middle ground. Do you or don't you? Remember that this is based on conjecture piled on top of conjecture.

I will tentatively agree that as a middle ground "can't be ruled out" is better; however, I think it depends on whether you're worried about being proved wrong at some future point. As I'm not worried about being proved wrong (I'd be happy to learn that there's nothing to worry about), I'll stick with 'very real', seeing as I was talking about a set of possibilities manifesting in conjunction with each other - all of which can be considered reasonable, though it is dependent on your stance relating to the ancient texts/architecture etc.

And, please don't forget, that as opposed to disputing the actual data, I was suggesting that the time frame involved (if Nibiru were real and on its way back, etc) allows for them to have developed technologies that will minimise the effects of gravitational pull. And therein is another interesting thing - the need for propulsion.

The ancient depiction of the planet shows it as WINGED - as in, propelled by some sort of visible force, which seems to have appeared in a form comparable to a sweeping energy field emitting from each side. Some sort of nano-swarm..? Plausible, given the timescales and high tech starting point many multiple thousands of years ago. And again; for the time being we cannot test such hypotheses; perhaps one day we will be able to.

Lots to think about, lots to research and check, lots to discuss. I will have to withdraw for this evening as I have other things I need to attend to (my wife is looking more and more annoyed that I'm on this site again).

Gracias for the debate and let's keep it going.


Noah.

reply to post by hippomchippo


I'm confused you refer to low-tech people; was that in regards to us and our potential response to them? I did say that they might simply be acting in a diplomatic fashion, trying to avoid creating mass panic.

Plus, I don't think the argument that we were created as a hybrid race is particularly unreasonable; in fact it fits the biological/ paleoanthropological data quite well.

I think their technology would have developed beyond the 'nuts and bolts' stages eons ago; they allegedly used crystals, harmonics and some sort of quantum manipulation (along the lines of Tesla's wireless power source) even back in around 6000BC, possibly before. Fascinating stuff.

Anyway - it's late; I'm tired, and there's a lot to sift through before I can present any reasonable multi-faceted theory. I'll take the "someone like you" statement as a compliment? Thanks - hopefully the exchange can level out onto a peaceful steppe.

Originally posted by NoahTheSumerian
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

I'm confused you refer to low-tech people; was that in regards to us and our potential response to them? I did say that they might simply be acting in a diplomatic fashion, trying to avoid creating mass panic.

Plus, I don't think the argument that we were created as a hybrid race is particularly unreasonable; in fact it fits the biological/ paleoanthropological data quite well.

I think their technology would have developed beyond the 'nuts and bolts' stages eons ago; they allegedly used crystals, harmonics and some sort of quantum manipulation (along the lines of Tesla's wireless power source) even back in around 6000BC, possibly before. Fascinating stuff.

Anyway - it's late; I'm tired, and there's a lot to sift through before I can present any reasonable multi-faceted theory. I'll take the "someone like you" statement as a compliment? Thanks - hopefully the exchange can level out onto a peaceful steppe.

Yes, the someone like you was a compliment, you seem intelligent, atleast moreso than most nibiru followers.
But you're saying it might be for diplomatic relations, They used us as slaves, remember? And whats going to create more panic, a planet slowly coming into the solar system or a cloaked planet that suddenly appears in the sky one day?

reply to post by hippomchippo


Your points are valid; the thing with the 'legends' of the gods is that they were much like us in terms of their character and interactions amongst themselves. There were some who looked on mankind with a more favourable eye than others; some who demanded we be restricted and others who thought we should be helped to progress. The overall trend seems to have been that once we had 'served our purpose', and following generations of inter-breeding (leading to the fastidious protection of royal bloodlines that we can see evidenced all over the modern world), they had a debate over what to do with us.

As an example of the initial disagreement over us, the Noah legend (as one example) stems from the cautious favoritism shown by 'Enki', one of the senior commanders of the Annunaki, to one of his 'followers' (it was a bit like the feudal system of the 'Lord of the Manor' protecting his people in return for tribute/taxes/service paid to him by the people). He warned him of a predicted disaster which the 'gods' knew about in advance (relating to the shift of polar ice - and resulting deluge - caused by the end of the last ice age around 13000 years ago). The biblical tale of God's punishment of mankind appears to have emerged from the original event as a politically motivated 'moral of the tale' type thing. Enki's brother Enlil was apparently much opposed to mankind in general (particularly the way they caused the Annunaki bloodline to be diffused as a result of intermarriage) - the original legend relates that he was vehemently opposed to warning mankind of the coming deluge and tried to force his brother to promise not to warn anyone.

Anyway; the main point is that ultimately, after eons of wars between different factions amongst the gods, they appear to have entered into a 'hands off' phase with humanity, having been raising our level of technical and societal progress in stages since around 10,000BC. Sumerian civilisation appeared in a paleoanthropological nano-second in 6000BC, fully formed, without any evidence of incremental advances leading up to their impressively advanced culture. It appears from the archeological record that all human societies around the world have their roots (both cultural and linguistic) in Sumer. Very suddenly (around 1000BC I think), the Anuna / Annunaki seem to have left us to fend for ourselves.

Buddha cautioned against following the 'gods', reasoning that they were essentially human with the same inherent character faults and personality problems. Christ said (talking to the disciples and those assembled with him) "...ye are gods". These spiritual masters knew (in my humble opinion) the entire realities of the universe, and knew that there were spiritually adept 'gods' as well as corrupt ones. They also seem to have equated us as 'of the same stock' as the gods themselves. That's precisely what the ancient Sumerian records suggest too.


I think that any revelation of their presence in modern times, will - if peaceful - take place slowly, and in a carefully controlled manner - they certainly won't jump out and say "Haha..! Didn't see that coming, did you..?" Unless of course they intend to annihilate us.

Well I just watched all the videos back to back.....Damn its alot of new info. I am a/was a sceptic on the hole doomsday thing but this man has almost convinced me. Wish I could get a copy of all the info.

I hope hes wrong! but the denver airport, The ancient spirals, everything, it all seems to fit.

can any one get a copy of his info....Bit torrent maybe?