The TRUE Evil: The Christian Agenda

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

 

First of all, on a minor fallacious reasoning point, you are with one hand not only lumping in christians, christianity, and christian institutions, but more importantly you are using the moral position of "evil" which itself is fundamentally rooted in religious duality. So in many ways, you are actually applying the same dogma of which you are accusing others.

[edit on 25 Feb 2010 by schrodingers dog]

I agree. The OP sounds as if he belongs to a religion himself, bitter and judgemental and out to make war against other religions. Probably a sheep in his own herd of some kind.

reply to post by l neXus l

There are over 38,000 different christian denominations

Doesn't that make you wonder if there is another agenda within the whole thing? God knows what He meant for us to do and what we are to believe. We need to go back to the source and admit that we know nothing!

reply to post by network dude

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

Well I guess I'm in the crowd you speak to, but I don't know of whom I've sat in judgement over. In fact I thought I made sure not to do that.
Because I do know of the passage you speak of also. I suppose you
could be refering to the Catholic church. I wasn't really judgeing it
as much as I was straight out condemning it though.

Hey Moocow what's up?

Well that's not really surprising when should one choose not accept the religion pushing this agenda could ens up with one being tortured to death !!

I think you missed my point though. When he died, his deciples made
up his church. What 12 or 13 people. Just think of that. By everything that is the logic most of you base your lives on. Jesus should be the same as so many others who went to the cross and yet. Well I won't dwell.

Oh and tortured to death. I would imagine he could tell you quite a bit about that.

[edit on 26-2-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by pplrnuts
josheboyxiii, the coruption lies from the very begining of your religion. The Jesus character never existed. All his unique and miraculous ways are a CARBON COPY of earlier myths and beliefs. For example, Jesus and Horus share nearly two hundred similarities. All of the amazing things of Jesus has been stolen from earlier characters, and modernized to fool foolish people. If you cant see through this delusion with this little bit of info which is just the tip of the iceberg, you will never, never, never get it, therefore I see no reason to continue. This is just pure stupidity to believe any further in Jesus after studying those "Jesus" characters before him that were MYTHS.

First off, let me tell you that I am not a born-again trying to save you or trying to prove the existence of Jesus. I believe he did exist, but I also believe that it doesn't matter if he existed or not. I don't think that believing he existed somehow unlocks the gates of heaven for me for eternity. I don't believe in the heaven/hell paradigm, nor do I believe that the rituals of the church are necessary for "salvation". I just believe in truth (which is much different than fact).

You may be right that he never existed. There is no proof either way, so to claim fact on either side of the argument is fallacious.

But even so... the lack of a historical man would not mean that the idea is corrupt. Again, the parable I cited is filled with truth. All of his parables are. And you're right about him being similar to others that came before (and after) him, although I wouldn't go so far as to say he's a carbon copy. But what is the common denominator among all of those prophets/deities? TRUTH.

Heck, even Bill & Ted from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure had truth: "Be excellent to each other". How better would the world be if we followed Bill & Ted's first commandment? (And how much more fun would the world be if we followed their second commandment of "Party on, dudes!"???). But the fact that Bill & Ted are fictional characters in a cheesy 80s movie does not take away the TRUTH that lies within their teaching.

So what I've been trying to say is that the basic ideal of religion is a noble ideal. Jesus's teachings, whether he existed or not, contain TRUTH. The fact that corrupt men have twisted it to their own ends is not the fault of Jesus, nor is it the fault of the ideal.

It is the fault of man.

Men have corrupted the idea of communism, which has noble roots and a unique take on freedom and community. Men have corrupted democracy, which also had noble roots and a unique take on freedom and community. The same can be said for any religion, whether the religion is fiction or not.

Its all ideas. Ideas are not real until they are made manifest by the actions of man. And that is where the break occurs.

Thats all I'm saying.

Jaxon here you go again with your arrogant sweeping statements. Im so sick of your posts lumping entire groups of people together and saying bad things about them.

I grew up in missouri. I know ALOT of christians and catholics and not a single one of them has any global power agenda.

We get it Jaxon your a wiccan who hates everything American. We don't need one of your group assassinations every damn week. Your so called "agenda" is nothing more than over zealous paranoia.

Not one christian i have ever met carries this agenda. Your sweeping statements about everyone different from you shows how narrow minded you are. It is hard to take you anti christian rhetoric seriously.

I mean come on man your bashing christians, ok but are you doing it objectively? NO YOU HAD A THREAD A WEEK AGO PROCLAIMING THAT YOUR A PAGAN. . . of course your going to bash christians.

How about I say Wiccans are bad? Then throw out a bunch of nonsence about the evils of Wicca? I guarentee I could find a mountain of info to throw at you on that. But I won't. Do you know why? Because i recognize your right to choose that path. Also I don't fear your ideology.

You want to worry about a NEW WORLD ORDER look at the government puppets. Souless dogs of war that don't care about anything. Sure alot of politicians run on a faithful platform but are not. They war mongers hate spreaders and idealogues.

In fact other than being a war monger your threads fit the other two categories. Your a hate monger and idealogue.


[edit on 26-2-2010 by constantwonder]

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


your words.

"the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your Master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree..."

Thats the best rendering Ive come across in years. ::hands over a bunch of stars & flags:: And your right when you look at it that way, anyone that believes in a talking snake or canabilism or hears voices in todays world is labled a LOON.



a talking snake...

you slay me..

Before you go showering affection n old Jaxon perhaps you should look into Wicca and some of their beliefs. . . There is some stuff in their religion that makes christianity look down right mundane. . .

For goodness sake there isn't just one "diety" in Wicca there a generally two and some sects have an entire pantheon.

This whole thread is pot and kettle talk and your all feeding right nto it. Jaxon is a PAGAN take that into account when showering praises on him for making fun of another religion. . .

[edit on 26-2-2010 by constantwonder]

reply to post by fooks


My post was meant to mirror the OP's sentiment, that religious
opposition has been, to a large degree, the root cause of great
human suffering and death. I do not mean that religion is evil.
But most major religions can be interpreted, or taken out of context,
to justify any ends. Be it aquisition or annihilation.

This is the inherent evil...it belongs with the men who use religion to
influence the masses to achieve their own agendas.

I really don't think you were wanting a list, so I will continue with
what I believe...

I "was" before I was born on earth, and I "will be" after this body I
am wearing shrivels up and dies.

I have tried to talk myself out of this belief many times, but the conundrum,
the thing that keeps leading me to believe that consciousness continues, is
consciousness itself.

I believe we are here for the experience, simply put. It is the only logical
assumption in my mind. If I assume that I truly am a spiritual being
and not some conglomeration of electrical impulses couched in a sack of
meat and bone, then to what purpose?

The only answer I can logically understand is "experience."

"For the experience" answers the question as to why God would
allow the death and suffering of an innocent being. It answers why good
can be punished and evil rewarded, why some are born to opulence and
others suffer starvation as children---because each of these circumstances
offers its own unique "experience."

We are either here to learn, and grow, and experience, or our existence
is only that...existence, and life is a terminal illness, of which there is no
known cure.

Be well, and prosper

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
A conspiracy that is thousands, no tens of thousands of years in the making. Ever since the first human figured out how to use fear of the unknown to control his peers, this has been steadily steaming along to the present day. What is the Christian Agenda, you ask??? Total Global Domination!!! A New World Order...

The Past:

Almost since it's inception shortly after the death of it's Founder, Christianity has sought to control the maximum amount of people it could, and either subjegate or eliminate those who did not convert and follow the teachings and rules of the Early Church. Starting with the conversion of the entire Roman Empire by the Emperor Constantine the Great in the 4th Century. It was Constantine that ordered the Council of Nicea, thus consolidating both the beliefs of Christianity, and the hierarchy of the Early Church, but also officially creating the Bible that is still in use today.

The Church enjoyed a few hundred years of dominance over most of the known world until Muhammad established Islam in the 7th Century, which spread rapidly throughout the Middle East. Much like Christianity plagurized the Tenakh, Muhammad plagurized the Bible, claiming to have had 'visions' from God. Apparently he saw what kind of power the Church leadership had, and wanted to duplicate this for his own use. It has been historically proven that Muhammad was an Arabian Warlord, not a spiritual leader as is now touted by the followers of this religion.

In the 11th Century, the Church had enough and initiated the Crusades in a vain attempt to irradicate this upstart religion and assert control over the Middle East.

The four Inquisitions, spanning from 1184 to 1860, sought to either punish those who dared to think for themselves under the guise of heresy, or those who did not convert and conform under the guise of blasphemy. With the 'Witch Hunts' of the Inquisition, all that remained of the Old Religions of Europe were eliminated.

Now while Martin Luther revealed his 95 Theses in the 16th century, and thus initiated the Protestant Reformation, I'm not entirely convinced that this was a Reformation, but instead may have been a secret plan to diversify, and thus spread the influence to the TRUE power brokers behind the curtain of the Church.

During the latter half of the last millenia, Christianity did it's best to replace every other faith or belief it encountered, either through 'missionary' tactics, or through much more violent means, such as what was done to the Maya and the Aztecs. It was spread throughout the Americas, throughout Africa and into the Orient. While some faiths did survive, they no longer carry the number of believers that they would have if Christianity had not been forced on so many so long ago. The only religion to challenge it was the religion of the Warlord Muhammad, Islam, which took over some places in the Orient and Africa, where Christianity had already taken roots.

The Present:

The current goal of the Christian Agenda has not changed, just it's methods. Where it used to use it's Power and Influence to just strong arm those who opposed it, now it uses governments and it's 'Sheeple' to do it's bidding. Yes, I said Sheeple! In fact, Christians are the very definition of Sheeple. They refer to themselves as a flock, and blindly follow the teachings of others, through blind faith, throwing Logic and Reason right out of the window. Anyone who belongs to an organization who subscribes to "the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your Master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree..." is using neither Logic, nor Reason... For that matter, they are not using any intelligence either...

Instead, they are influenced into denying rights to their fellow citizens, creating wars to keep the 'heathens and heretics' in check, and giving up 10% of their incomes to their Shepherd's.

All of it relying on Blind Faith...

Blind Faith leaves one unable to see the endless possibilities...

JaxonRoberts on ATS

Unaware, they spread lies... They follow Old Words... They are not here... Question all... Question everything...

A Voice caught on an EVP in answer to a question about the AfterLife...

Break the chains... Question EVERYTHING... Don't be a pawn of the Agenda... Of the PBT... Of the REAL NWO...

domination and want of control are not exclusive to christianity mate.

i have to wonder... did you just feel the need to rant? this is a rather dated sort of subject, and i dont see any innovation with the issue at hand.

just sayin. :S

If there were no Christian or Islamic religion human beings would devise and pervert some other institutional religion or political idea to dominate.

Religions are just on the surface material in which the inner disease in the human soul utilizes to express itself.


BTW, The original poster not only defamed all Christians but also Muslims by claiming [ falsely] that Muhammad was a war lord, which is not the case.

What he should do in order not to offend people is to merely say that organized religion has become corrupt—ALL ORGANIZED RELIGION. That is a symptom of the condition of human’s inwardly, and has nothing to do with an organized doctrinal religion in itself, for religion is merely an external, it is what is inside the heart that matters and determines what people do.

The proof of this is that even though both Christianity and Islam as organized religions have become corrupt, there are nevertheless many individuals in those religions that are good people.


Bottom line, the original poster is entitled to his opinion, and makes many good points, but he perhaps should use what the Buddhist call--skillful means--in expressing his opinion in this regard, and not lump an entire group into one bag and just end up offending a lot of people.

Often when we bring fire, that only extinguishes the light!

reply to post by rleexray


Wow Normally i do not like to be this acerbic, but your illiteracy in both scientific progress and religion is rather dumbfounding. For example your quip about evolution went to show how little you actually know about the subject. Majority of the religion VS evolution debacle began here in the USA with the Scopes Monkey Trial and in evangelical and protestant churches. I suggest you read the book "Inherit the wind."

In fact, may great scientific advances have come about through Catholic scholarship and education. The most recent case is that of Monsignor Georges Lemaître, a Belgian priest who proposed the Big Bang theory. When he proposed his theory, Einstein rejected it, causing Monsignor Lemaître to write to him: “Your math is correct, but your physics is abominable.” Eventually Einstein accepted the theory.

Also, unlike many of the American Protestant or evangelical religions, the Catholic Church does not reject the theory of evolution. In the early days of the theory, the Church remained silent on the issue. The first public statements regarding evolution came from Pope Pius XII who said: “The Church does not forbid that research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter.”

In 2004, a Theological Commission overseen by Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) issued this statement: “According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the ‘Big Bang’ and has been expanding and cooling ever since. [...] Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution.”

Catholic Schools all around the world (including the US) teach scientific evolution as part of their science curriculum.



But lets talk about how big mean ol religion has "suppressed science"


Religion has suppressed science so much for the past 2000 years that there is a 5 billion dollar multinational funded giant supercollider underneath the border of Switzerland and France and in the USA ( a predominantly christian nation) the second largest supercollider resides near Chicago.

Religion has suppressed science so much that we can now build viruses from scratch, and theoretically more complex life-forms.

Religion has suppressed science so much that we will have a Computer Chipthat matches the processing power of the human brain while requiring only 3 watts of electricity

Religion has suppressed science so much that in front of you are using a computer to talk about how suppressed science is by religion.


Do you have any idea how scientifically complex a computer is? And you think our knowledge has been suppressed by religion? You are a god because of science. Yet you can't even acknowledge this because you are more concerned with dictating and yelling out how people should think.




[EDIT: Fixed some Ctrl+V errors also i forgot to add that part of my argument is copypasta/sourced from here]

[edit on 26-2-2010 by DeathShield]

Ahem, strong words by the OP :-)

Mainstream religions surely all have major deficits.

But please consider these points:

There is a much more destructive line of thinking than any of the traditional religions. I am talking about the ice cold materialism, which relegated animals to the status of objects (official statement of the laws in my country) and humans to animals, denying us our spiritual side. This is a bigger and more vicious lie than anything you will find in the Bible or the Koran. It is better if people adhere to a religion that affirms the fact that they are spiritual beings than if they fall for the materialistic lie of "your consciousness is just a product of chemical reactions and you are only a body and therefore you've had it and we can control you with force".

A person very dear to me grew up in one of the most violent and criminal environments of this planet. At a young age she joined a Christian group because that group was the only outpost of sanity and honesty in that cruel place. Until today she finds strength and comfort in her Christian belief. I do not agree with everything she says, but I see how important her religion is for her well being. It did save her life and does make her a happier and better person. So there is tremendous value in religion, even if it does not have all the correct answers.

reply to post by DeathShield



MY god that's a magnificent post,
I always like to point out that many if not most scientist were Christian, or at least believed in a deity, even today there are many.

“The most amazing thing to me is existence itself. How is it that inanimate matter can organize itself to contemplate itself?”

“Can a person be a scientist and a Christian? Yes. As I said before, the world is too complicated in all its parts and interconnections to be due to chance alone.”

“God is the explanation for the miracle of existence.”

- Allan Sandage, cosmologist and Nobel Prize winner


”If you change a little bit the laws of nature, or you change a little bit the constants of nature — like the charge on the electron — then the way the universe develops is so changed, it is very likely that intelligent life would not have been able to develop.”

- Rr. Dennis Scania, Head of Cambridge University Observatories

scottthong.wordpress.com...


[edit on 012828p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by Eye of Horus


Thanks, it's people like you who conform to these generalizations and throw stars and flags up for this guys post who make people on here seem downright less educated.

THAT is the best rendering of Jesus Christ you've ever heard? Well you surely do not have very much experience in this world...

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Thank you Stormdancer777 for pointing that out! I would not have taken the time to read it if you did not mention it again. I'm so scatterbrained!

To that awesome post I just wanted to let you know, great stuff there. I believe God has already told us that we are Gods.

You are a god because of science.

Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High.

Allow me to quote something to remind the believers angered here.

Blessed are the peacemakers.

How is matching those who hate with equal rancor being a peacemaker? You don't end cycles by feeding into them.

[edit on 26-2-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


What was the point of this post? I'm about 99% sure you came up with the garbage you spewed in order to simply bash on Christianity in general. You're descriptions are insulting, your points unjustified and you're simply trying to force your own agenda down everyone's throats by simply examining negativity in Christianity.

There is no agenda regarding world domination and you sound mighty stupid saying something like that. Am I really to believe that donating on Sunday's at service is encouraging and funding a world domination agenda? Are you kidding?

I've seen many of your posts before and respect your thoughts and opinions in most cases, but I simply don't understand the point of this thread in general? And to see that you have received praise for your biased and offensive opinions is downright sad as well...

Don't toss the baby with the bath water. The teachings of Jesus are good. Could you argue with "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them..."

I've removed myself from all churches sometime ago for the very arguments you make against Christianity. But, I still believe and I still try to live according to the doctrines set forth by the great Teacher.

Try not to judge us to harshly, we all fall down. Some of us make more of a spectacle of ourselves than others when we do. And, some of us are unbearably hypocritical in pursuit of that splinter in our brother's eye.

But, remember this, judge a tree by the fruit that it bears. If you do this and apply it to the individual you will see who is and is not a true Christian.

We're not all bad.

The OP makes great points, but has decided to misplace the blame. Christianity is just a tool used by oppressors, just as any other set of ideas can, will, and has been used by people that seek to exert control over others.

I guess since the OP makes the precedent of quoting oneself in a post, I will do so as well.
LINK TO THREAD

Religion is the belief in some explanation for unanswerable questions and fellowship with others in like mind. It can be a tool for bigotry, destruction, and genocide if in parallel with state activity, but the common denominator is the state, not religion.

I can find you many religious people who do not use their religion to harm others, and in fact do great good around the world. I cannot find one statists whose state does nothing to harm anyone, or whose intentions do not seek marginalize an individuals right to natural law.

I find it strange that people find a great much to fear from religions that do not force their congregation to pay, while at the same time, never seeing the true oppression in your government, which forces all it wishes to pay. Any and all instances where religious bodies force people to pay or take part have all been under, parallel, or intertwined to the state.

To paraphrase something I said in that previous thread, I would take Jesus Camp, Sunday school, or any other religious brainwashing over indoctrination in one of our state schools.

Wow, so many Christians on here have gotten really upset, which is understandable. I used to be a "born again Christian" and would get very defensive anytime someone would threaten the validity of my religion. The problem was, I started threatening the validity with my own thoughts. It was an internal battle and my intuition won ahead of my conditioning.

When you start to think for yourself, you begin to see how many crucial holes there are in all religions. Granted, there is good within the belief, but the problem is the dogma is based on lies and anytime someone brings evidence to threaten the validity of the ideology, the Church uses brute force and bullying to protect it. They don't have an open debate, they demonize people who just want to have an intelligent conversation. Just ask Galileo...or any scientist for that matter.

The problem I have is that Christians are under the assumption that their ideology gives them, as Bill Maher puts it, "a monopoly on morality." They act like they are the only ones who feed the hungry, don't murder and don't cheat on their wives while snorting meth with a gay prostitute. Christians believe that the non-believers, even the ones that live a moral life, are destined for an afterlife of eternal suffering in hell. And again, as I said in my last reply, if you are a "Christian" that does not believe this, you are not really a Christian. You are someone that likes to believe in particular ideas of the religion.



[edit on 26-2-2010 by royalred]