On Free Will

Free will has been an often debated aspect of philosophy for the last 4,000 years. Philosophers have continuously argued over two main stances on the topic, which are determinism, which states that there is only one possible outcome for ones future, which is based on their given past. The other stance is that of indeterminism, which states that we have multiple futures open to us based on our own free choice. It is my thesis that free will does indeed exist, and can be proven via the well known science of quantum mechanics.

Quantum mechanics is the study of particles such as electrons, protons, neutrons, quarks, mesons, gluons, and strings. In this well founded and over 80 year old field it has been repeatedly seen that the very foundation of reality, the building blocks of atoms and thus larger matter constantly display properties of free will in the clearest sense. The first major aspect of quantum mechanics that supports free will is the wave function.

The quantum wave function is the proven fact that all particles, and really anything, even macro level objects have at least some probability of being anywhere in the universe at any given time. The only thing that separates the possible states is the probability distribution, which is simply the mathematical realization of the wave function. To give an example of this you can imagine your own wave function as this; you are sitting in your living room watching TV right now, you are because that is the highest probability, and thus occurred in this reality. However, there is a chance, however improbable that you are standing on the surface of Mars right now! This has been mathematically proven and is beyond a doubt.

This clearly shows that there is an innate nature of “choice” built within the very universe itself. The only thing that effects what choice you make is your interaction with the environment and other causal antecedents. If the deterministic theory was true then we would not be observing this phenomena on any level, which since we are it is my postulate that determinism can not be true in any sense of its definition.

To further show how quantum mechanics shows scientifically that free will and choice exists I would like to mention the wave function collapse. The collapse of a wave function is simply the point at which the probability of a given particle or object being at a certain point in spacetime becomes 100 percent. This is what we could describe as the very act of choice itself being seen and described mathematically.

Yet another principle of quantum mechanics that, again shows free will to be true is the famous Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle. This is a proven law of quantum mechanics that states you can never observe both the position and momentum of a particle, because the very act of observing and measuring it affects the outcome of the experiment. This is probably the strongest evidence for free will and most damning for determinism in my opinion. This very law clearly shows that the future is not predetermined or static, but rather open and dynamic. Interactions with ones environment affect the end effect, but the end effect is not singular.

Some may still ask “how does this prove free will?” It, in my opinion does because the very fact that we know there is no linear future for the foundation of reality(particles) directly refutes the deterministic stance of a linear future. This is because these very micro particles make up the macro, from us to the largest star in the Universe, to even the fabric of spacetime itself. Although quantum mechanics seem to prove free will some hard determinists may still ask “but if we have free will then why can’t we will ourselves to any possibility we desire?” However that is a fallacious argument, because even with free will we still are bound by the laws of nature and interactions within our local and global environments. Thus, the argument in favor of indeterministic free will is still valid in every relevant sense.

In closing, the argument of free will or determinism may never be solved however. This is because the very nature of philosophy is metaphysical in most senses, and what science there is may be able to never satisfy some of the hardest determinists due to the inherent nature of the science itself. It is ironic that we often talk about probability in the indetermnistic argument, because in reality it is likely we may only be able to prove free will within a probability itself.

Additional References

Donald Palmer, PhD. Does The Center Hold? New York: McGraw-Hill, 2008.

 

The above was a short essay I just wrote for my philosophy 1010 class, as I find this topic very interesting I thought I would share my thoughts on free will here with you all on ATS. Hope you enjoyed...




[edit on 2/25/2010 by jkrog08]

I think you have demonstrated a wishful interpretation of quantum mechanics, but not the reality. The opposite of deterministic behavior is not free behavior, it is random behavior. Random behavior is just as far from free will as deterministic behavior; neither involves choice. The wavefunction collapses in a probabilistic way, not a free way.

As you said, all matter is subject to the same quantum mechanical laws, and all of it behaves as a wave until measured, and then it behaves as a particle. This is all that quantum mechanics has to say about how things happen; no distinction is made between willful entities and inanimate entities. The same process of wave function collapse occurs for a rock as does for a person. Quantum mechanics describes their behaviors in the same way. You do not suggest that the rock has free will - because that would obviously be meaningless. There is no astrix applied to human beings in quantum mechanics that says "for willful entities, the wavefuncton collapse is based on their free will, and for non willful entities their wavefunction collapse is probabilistic."

Appealing to quantum mechanics to find free will is innacurate. Quantum mechanics only inserts some randomness into our otherwise deterministic world; it does not insert freedom. I would rather be bound by coherent determinism than nonsensical randomness. Also, quantum mechanics is called "quantum mechanics" and not "all mechanics" because it really only applies on a quantum scale. You suggest here that determinism is a complete fiction - but, its' not. We sent men to the moon with a deterministic physics, and you navigate the world successful by counting on a deterministic physics and completely ignoring quantum mechanical effects. Those quantum mechanical effects only apply to subatomic entities, and you certain cannot suggest that they have free will.

You're confusing probability and randomness with freedom, and the consquence of your proposition is that all objects have the same degree of free will as people.

reply to post by jkrog08


i agree with your description of freedom reality, but what you described there is related to absolute positive reality free life, that is of truth seting existance certainty being of nothingness freedom awareness of itself

that generated objective and subjective moves prooving the certainty existing freedom as the base of that absolute positive reality life freedom that set the truth existing life

but our conscious existance is of something else, we are of that reality absolute freedom life awareness of itself in void, so the first consciousness in that absolute reality of void realized how absolute life is free totally managing all of truth life and rised to intersts in that business for free separate life, that is the source of all evil wills too and source of gods set powerful positions forever in that new business rise

so we belong to another concept of free existance that is not related to absolute truth but always mean to exploit its reality

that is why we as conscious are always gathered as one, because of our justifications reference being the positive truth as abstraction knowledge source intelligence of absolute reality life, that justify ourselves free existance as conscious or awareness constance and our lives is always related to means of positive subjective sense from superiority states or powers rewards that we may get to ourselves realities or to our free conscious realisations

Free will is a flawed concept. The way you act is based on your personality, which is based on your experiences and your genetics.

There is no evidence for an "X factor" that chooses a "good" or "evil" action. When you make a choice, you weigh the benefits and downsides, as your personality perceives them, and pick the best possible choice.

reply to post by OnceReturned

You're confusing probability and randomness with freedom, and the consquence of your proposition is that all objects have the same degree of free will as people.

Not really, because the micro dictates the macro, the only difference is that at the quantum scale probabilities are more chaotic than in the micro realm, where things have already been "worked out" so to say. And by the way, I am not the person who created indeterministic theory, I am simply stating my support of it.

You stated "we went to the moon on deterministic physics" and "get along every day with them". That is true, however deterministic physics are simply how we navigate our reality, which was already determined by the wave function collapse. Deterministic physics break down horribly at smaller and smaller scales, this is fact, not theory.

The problem with determinists is that they use circular arguments IMHO. The issue is still not resolved by simply saying "on the macro level we use linear physics" because it was the micro which predicated the macro. Theoretical physics and quantum physics have all but proven parallel realities, which in turn proves free will and disproves a linear notion of reality. Just because we only experience our current reality due to our own wave function collapse does not mean all other possible choices are not being played out alternately but simultaneously.

the main point i meant to say there, is that we as conscious are existing of something else and not of what you described i guess correctly

in truth anything is always itself existing life it is the principle of certainty life applied to absolute reality life freedom in void

but since we are not of that reality but conscious of, our freedom out of it is the reference of our existance base for life as something else

and the whole point of the sense to come i guess, is what that reality consciousness existance freedom would end like, but whatever absolute life interfer as a reference corrections it would never be an absolute reality, absolute reality would always be only to void reality life

what is existing is always itself from the first second of its rise

I will ask you THESE questions... If you have free will then do you have the free will to not die???

Do you have the free will to not (to use a religious term), not sin???

Does everything you do lead you back to the point where you started from??

Do you have the free will to stay as you are? Or do circumstances cause you to change???

So where is this elusive free will to even just stay as you are?? If you did would you be able to keep your family together??

Do the things you own end up owning you?? Do you have the free will to stay at home and spend time with your family without having to spend long durations apart just to pay for the things you own???

Do stars have the free will to not transmit light? Do plants have the free will to not photosynthesize?.. Does those things that go up have the free will to not come down.. Can humans determine these things or are they already written into the very fabric of the universe?? Is it chance that everything we do is in cycles??? Can you break those with free will??

No...


[edit on 25-2-2010 by Yissachar1]

While I don't prescribe to quantum mechanics I found this post to be interesting.

But what is free will? the power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies. Source: wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

So while in the strictest sense of the definition we do have free will. However if you make decisions at all based on economical or sociological reasons then you don't have free will. So by that logic we don't have free will if we subscribe to the law, or or are part of a group.

While we are free to say what we want on this site for the most part some things are frowned upon or could eventually get your membership revoked. So while this isn't a knock on the site as I agree we need limitation for open peaceful communication, without being distracted, we for go some of our free will.

But really outside the box thinking, and interesting post, this was just my 2cents.

reply to post by jkrog08


The infinite parallel reality idea is just another appeal to randomness. Fine, even if we accept that all possibilities are realized over infinite realities - which is not a matter of fact - then the reality in which you find yourself is still random, you did not choose this reality out of an infinite number of possible ones. Your wave function collapsed this way as a result of a probability function, not a free choice.

Also, the biggest problem with this whole notion of finding free will in quantum mechanics is that quantum mechanics does differentiate between people and inanimate objects. If we have free will because of quantum mechanics, so do stop signs and rocks and the moon. This is clearly senseless.

Also, the micro/macro problem still exists, because quantum mechanics doesn't identitify you or anyone else as a coherent object. It only deals with your constituent subatomic particles; they are the things whose wavefunction is collapsing, not you yourself as a coherent entity. It doesn't make sense to argue that they - your subatomic constituents - have free will, or that their aggregate wavefunction collapse is how your free will manifests, because that same process is occuring when you are asleep and when you are dead, and you are certainly not making free choices then.

Additionally, saying that on the macro level we use linear physics is not a waste of breath. We live on the macro level. If things on the macro level(including us) behave deterministically then we are bound by that determinism. So what if positrons behave differently? We are macro-scale humans, and we should hesitate to apply the bazaar phenomena of the quantum world to our human size world, especially when those phenomena are in complete disageement with what we actually observe happening in our world. Determinism wouldn't work so well if it was all hog wash, and even though it is a fact that determinism breaks down at the quantum level, that doesn't seem to make much of a difference for us; we live at the macro level and deteminism seems to reign here. Determinism has been too successful to throw out. Even if you can sneak in some quantum effects at the macro scale, the best you will do is cause some random unpredictable behavior; nothing free.

And by the way, I know you didn't make this idea up. It's an interesting conversation to have even if it's not with the inventor of the theory.

Originally posted by OnceReturned


You do not suggest that the rock has free will -

and you certain cannot suggest that they have free will.

Because we dont know the nature of something, does that mean it doesnt exist? The lack of a subjects ability to defend itself from certain types of attacks, means that the parts that do, dont exist? It just seems like another facet of the stone.
Does the rock have a soul? Not as we know the word. Is that rock part of ones mind? If it exists , it is. Can a rock by itself kill aperson? Or does a person have to intervene somehow?

Did the FIRST rock have free will?
Now galactic feces has personality traits?

Originally posted by Yissachar1
I will ask you THESE questions... If you have free will then do you have the free will to not die???

Do you have the free will to not (to use a religious term), not sin???

Does everything you do lead you back to the point where you started from??

Do you have the free will to stay as you are? Or do circumstances cause you to change???

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Yissachar1]

This type of pure freewill if you will was lost when it was exchanged for the knowlege of good and evil.

reply to post by psyko45


A rock is subject to many things.. Erosion.. Deposition... Even its chemical make up determines its existence... The rock has no self will, and the one who threw it has none either... Why??? because the circumstances that caused the rock to be thrown was forced on the thrower... Or was they??.. Was it meant to be that way?? Would that rock not being thrown affect the future??... You can see that the rock was not there by chance.. It HAD to be thrown.... Determinism... Free will is a joke... Did I have the free will to not write this? or was it forced upon me because of my past? That IS the case.. However i could NOT have wrote it.. But I did!!

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Yissachar1]

reply to post by jkrog08


actually what proove that we are not of geniun freedom and never will, is the fact that our justification base conscious is to be related positively to that absolute alone reality and freely from ourselves conscious outside

that is the base that justify why we must gather ourselves always as one self meaning its positive reality or creations rewards

because we have to relate of truth principle sameness, so we must be one and the objective reality life wholeness of absolute exploitations one too, so we have to make a reality of sameness with the whole free reality one, it prooves the deterministical approach as the only feasable one

when everyone need to relate to objective whole reality to be existing than it is always the first whole relation that determin all down, and of course subjective powerful livings from higher hierarchies can interfer secretly to abuse the means of down to relate positively too

reply to post by Logarock


A star for YOU!! true will was given away by Adam... Waiting for the flames lol.. But what If you had to read why??? Is your destiny pivitol on what you read here?? Hmmmmnnnn LOL

reply to post by psyko45


Free will in the human sense is based on the mental phenomenon of "will." As far as anyone can tell, minds have their basis in brains. Rocks don't have brains, so they don't have minds, so they don't have will, so they don't have free will.

Free will is manifest as behavior. Rocks behave in purely deterministic ways; this can be shown experimentally. Deterministic behavior is bound by physical laws and cannot be said to be free.

Spinoza saw that if a falling stone could reason, it would think, "I want to fall at the rate of thirty-two feet per second." - Philip K. Dick

reply to post by OnceReturned

Rocks don't have brains, so they don't have minds, so they don't have will, so they don't have free will.

Ah...But the particles that made the rocks had the degrees of freedom (conscious or not that is not relevant) to form the rocks or not. Free will always is at the start of everything, no matter how you word the description.

reply to post by jkrog08


Does a random number generator act freely? It seems like at this point we have to come up with a definition of free will, and I suspect that I will definite it in such a way that it does not exist. I wonder how you will define it?

I suppose that any definition of free will must not apply to deterministic things, because determinism is in direct opposition to freedom; the two are mutualy exclusive, a thing cannot be both determinate and free. So, the only thing that we can find that does not behave deterministically is subatomic particles at the moment that their wavefunction collapses; they go from being a waveform to being a particle and they make that "collapse" in a truely nondeterminsitic way.

So then we must locate free will in the subatomic constituents of observable objects. Since everything has subatomic constituents - and there is no obviously relevant difference between the subatomic constituents of people and of inanimate objects - then we must identify free will in everything. Or at least, we have to conclude that everything is made of smaller free willed things.

This is not a very satisfactory concept of free will. The reason that it is not satisfactory is because it is awkward trying to figure out what exactly is free and what the basis of this "free" action is. If your subatomic particles are free to collapse somewhere along their waveform, that certainly doesn't translate to you having the freedom to turn left or right the next time you come to a fork in the road. In fact, I don't think that it translates into any appreciable freedoms at all.

We like to think - as long as we are thinking of free will - that by free we mean unbound and by will we mean our conscious mental will. Free will is the ability to form a will or intention in a non-deterministic non-random way, and to then be able to act on that will. If we locate freedom in our subatomic constituents that rules out any mental states contributing to our actions. The mental states are a function of macro brain states which are a function of the physical constituents of the brain; ultimately the subatomic constituents. Not the other way around. The notion of identifying free will at the quantum scale completely eliminates any intentionality, preference, or mental aspects whatsoever from the "free" action.

So I ask you, if it is the pieces of your brain acting freely to determine your brain state; who is free? Certainly it is not you. You are just along for the ride while your quantum constituents act freely. And what is the basis - if not your mental state(and we have already determined that your mental state is based on what the subatomic particles are doing, not that what the subatomic particles are doing is based on your mental state) - for the "free" action? It seems like the action of subatomic particles cannot really be based on anything close to will, and as long as its not based on your mental state it is certainly not a matter of choice.

The only conclusion that I can come to if we claim to locate free will in our subatomic constituents is that it is the subatomic particles that are free, not us, and that nothing resembling will can be found playing any part in this freedom because will is a function of the mind, and the subatomic particles certainly don't have little minds. And even if we ride the crazy train pretty far and decide that maybe they do have little minds, their minds and their mental states cant possibly be anything like our minds and our mental states, because we know for a fact that our minds are connected to our brains, and the subatomic particles don't have little brains. We are left with a senseless concept in which we are not free but our parts are, and will plays no part unless it is the will of the mind of the subatomic particles. This notion of free will should be abandoned entirely, because no one can honestly say that this nonsense is what they mean by free will.

[edit on 2/25/10 by OnceReturned]

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by Logarock

 

A star for YOU!! true will was given away by Adam... Waiting for the flames lol.. But what If you had to read why??? Is your destiny pivitol on what you read here?? Hmmmmnnnn LOL

I was refering to free will without knowlege....no wave failure. I didnt mean that this was then end of free will.

But you know now dont you that this issue in biblical terms is as problematic as what is being discussed here in physics. For one that the new creature, whiel operating under new conditions, remains in conflict with the elements and yet said to have thier names written down before the foundations of the world, told to repent and yet told that thier life was foreknown.

As Once Returned has said above.........."I suppose that any definition of free will must not apply to deterministic things, because determinism is in direct opposition to freedom; the two are mutualy exclusive, a thing cannot be both determinate and free".

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Logarock]

* do not believe a word i write for it would become domination of your own mind...

Free will has been a subject of discussions for thousands of years. What if free will was an illusion that was imposed in order to refine the soul evolution? From personal experience, i know that as long as the ego is influenced or manipulated, he has no free will. The understanding of our astrological "program" here on Earth is essential in order to see through the veil covering our consciousness, meaning the occult distortion within the mind. Modern science cannot explain the concept of free will for it has not been able to pinpoint the origin of thoughts we "receive". The lack of understanding regarding the inner workings of the human psyche is the cornerstone of mankind's ignorance towards the invisible forces involved in the evolution process.

fate and destiny are the same..whatever happens is happening...so choose wisely