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Police escort student out of class after refusal to recite Pledge of Allegiance

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posted on Feb, 25 2010 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 





Your comment about not standing up to shake someone's hand if you know them and dislike them is exactly what I am getting at. You don't do it because you don't respect that person. If you did respect them, you would stand up and smile and say nice to meet you. If you did not learn that from your parents, or your football coach, or your drama teacher, then I am sorry for you. I hope you don't have to learn a "hard" lesson about disrespecting somebody now that you are an adult. It hurts a lot more after you are grown!


Not an issue i deal with most of the time, because I try not to associate myself with people that I have that little respect for. But, I certainly wouldn't fake it. That would be disrespectful to myself, and in a way, even more disrespectful to the person I'm not showing respect to since i would essentially be lying to them.
if they didn't like it, I'd refer them to the thicker skin comments we've both made.

hahahahaha....see how stupid this whole thing starts to sound? just let the girl sit, she's not hurting anyone or herself.



posted on Feb, 25 2010 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 





There are a few people like me around that don't mind popping a 16 year old or 20 year old across the top of their head and saying, "Stand up when you talk to me boy, don't you have any manners?"


thats yer clarification? LOL. thanks for clarifying. So you think it's fine to slap a grown man(in the case of a 20 year old) up side the head, and bark orders at him and even call him "boy"? come on now...

I suppose this kind of treatment is how you became a shining example of respect and manners??

yer killin me...LOL. Are you joking, I honestly can't tell at this point.



posted on Feb, 25 2010 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by liquidsmoke206
 


Not joking, that is why I put it there, and no it is not ok to slap a grown man, but when I read your posts I am conflicted. You seem intelligent and open-minded, but I detect a hint of an arrogant spoiled 20 year old that hasn't had a good male role model in his life.

I apologize if that is wrong, because as I say, you often seem intelligent and open minded, and thick skinned, lol, hopefully.

Anyway, on occasion, through my work, or my friends and their teenage kids, or adult live in kids, I have run across full-grown males that thought they were men. They "thought" they were grown and didn't have to give common courtesy to other grown folks, and it is always entertaining to really put them on the spot. Make them put up or shut up so to say.

I have put my hand out and said, "Nice to meet you" and waited while a 19 year old kid just sat there watching TV. I stood solemnly for another minute or so, and then I thumped him on top of the head with the back of my knuckles, extended my hand again, and said, 'I said, Nice. to. meet. you." and I waited while he looked dumbfounded. You could see rage and fear and surprise and after a few seconds he stood up and shook my hand and said nice to meet you too!

I had a similar occasion with an employee coming to work and not being respectful as he entered the door. I asked him to go outside and try it again and he smirked and kept walking, so I snatched the hood of his pullover, spun him around, pointed to the door and asked if he would like to enter the building the correct way, or if he needed help loading his toolbox up in his car. He apologized and came in the right way!

It doesn't always work, some people just aren't "coachable." All I have ever asked of an employee, or student, or protege is that they are coachable. They don't need to know everything, and it is fine to make mistakes, but be respectful, listen, and try.



posted on Feb, 25 2010 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by liquidsmoke206
 


Forced to go to school! Are you just Trolling or do you believe that?

Dumb is no way to go through life. It's a one way ticket to standing on a corner with a sign that says "Will Work For Food" with a wine bottle in your back pocket.

Those of us who are motivated and not lazy are supporting enough losers now.



posted on Feb, 25 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


I'm not trolling, and I never said school was a bad idea, that people shouldn't go. But, I happen to be a high school drop out(I eventually graduated via correspondence courses), and I'm doin just fine. I even have a college degree. Not anything major, but I studied a lot of different stuff and had a great time doin it. I hated high school so I quit, I found other ways around it. I just don't think you should force people to do things they don't wanna do. Isn't that what liberty is all about. I'm not advocating irresponsibility. People should be responsible for their decisions. You just have to ask yerself sometimes if the means is worth the end.



posted on Feb, 25 2010 @ 06:02 PM
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Pledging alligence to a flag, piece of cloth, or any other inanimate object is indoctrination bordering on lunacy.



[edit on 25-2-2010 by EMPIRE]



posted on Feb, 25 2010 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by EMPIRE
 


true. but the pledge is actually a pledge to the republic for which the flag stands. So it's not like you're pledging allegiance to an inanimate object. Either way, no one should be made to do that. It's vague and weird enough in it's own right.



posted on Feb, 25 2010 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by liquidsmoke206
 



I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands...

So you have to pledge to the flag and to the Republic? And speaking of republic, we aren't a republic. We're the combination of a plutocracy, hegemony and oligarchy. The more Americans realize this the better off they'll be.



posted on Feb, 25 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by EMPIRE
 




you can argue the wording all you want, but I'm pretty sure that flag in this case is meant as symbolism for the USA and what it stands for.

as far as us not being a republic...hmmm...i wonder what would happen if you brought up all that in class...or even reworded the pledge to suit your own beliefs.



posted on Feb, 26 2010 @ 07:12 AM
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reply to post by liquidsmoke206
 


You are right, children until certain age are forced into school unless the parent sign consent for home schooling depending on the state they are at.

In my neck of the woods is even fines for the parents if the children are no in school.

I happen in more than one occasion visit homes with social workers and school police to warn immigrants about the state requirements when it came to school attendance for minors.



posted on Feb, 26 2010 @ 08:00 AM
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Smylee, Bravo!

You have taken the time to recognize that your students have mailable minds and need great care upon which you impress upon them.

You are a rare breed indeed because you took the time to explain what the Pledge is and most importantly, that it is not a requirement to recite it.

I commend you and hope I find more of you out there teaching our young!

reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


Thanks so much for the kind words. Public school teachers seem to be a favorite scapegoat for a lot of society and educational problems. Sometimes with justified cause, of course. But we rarely hear the good replies. So thanks again!

What's really interesting is to watch how the students change their mind throughout the course of the school year. We discuss government and history of the US. Whenever we talk about the revolution, most want to say the pledge. Then when we get to the civil rights movement, the exact opposite occurrs.

It's also interesting when you ask a student at this age a rhetorical question. They're so conditioned to answer "yes" or "no" in terms of absolutes, so when they begin to see both sides of the issues you can actually see the thinking beginning! Their faces light up, or they frown, but you know something great is happening in their mind....

I love my job!




posted on Feb, 26 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


wow, they start thinking and you dont even have to slap em upside the head and say.."stand up when yer talking to me, boy."


LOL...still funny



posted on Feb, 26 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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wow, they start thinking and you dont even have to slap em upside the head and say.."stand up when yer talking to me, boy."
reply to post by liquidsmoke206
 


well, remember they are fifth graders. They still (for the most part) respect adults and enjoy learning.

Now in high school its a whole nother issue......



posted on Feb, 26 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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I am going to play the devils advocate here on this issue.
When I was growing up, it was expected and in the school rules that the day begin with the pledge of allegience. It was explained what it ment and why such was done. The flag is a symbol of the country, the ideas and the history of the country as it stood then. I remember that in one class the teacher, as part of a history lesson, explained what the colors of the flag represented and the ideas behind such, to instill pride into the students to help us become good citizens of the country. But those days are gone, now we have people who live in the country, that have no respect, no belief that they are a part of this country, gone are the days when you knew who your neighbor was, that there was a fundamental trust in the community that you live in. (Yes I do remember the time when you could leave the door unlocked at night and the windows open) I remeber a time when you would raise and stand, facing the flag, hand over your heart when they played the national anthem. I have been to other countries, and out of respect for the country I was visiting, if they played that national anthem, I was taught you stand and look towards their flag. It is sad that now days people are loosing faith in their country, and seek to tear it down, instead of helping it out, or even seeking to make it better for the next generation. Yes the government is not the best that we would like, but who ultimately is responsbile for that and where does it begin? It starts with the children and the parents taking responsiblity for the country and doing the right that they have (and the way things are going, while we have it) to ensure that this country does not get torn down. A flag is more than just a piece of cloth, it is a symbol that represents a country and for the ideas that surround that country, it is something you protect and cherish, and sacrafice for, and in times of trouble, rally around, and fight for.



posted on Feb, 26 2010 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by sdcigarpig
 





When I was growing up, it was expected and in the school rules that the day begin with the pledge of allegience. It was explained what it ment and why such was done.

same here, but I honestly dont remember ever getting an explanation. By the time I became an adolescent i started to question why i was reciting this thing.



But those days are gone, now we have people who live in the country, that have no respect, no belief that they are a part of this country, gone are the days when you knew who your neighbor was, that there was a fundamental trust in the community that you live in. (Yes I do remember the time when you could leave the door unlocked at night and the windows open) I remeber a time when you would raise and stand, facing the flag, hand over your heart when they played the national anthem.

those days are NOT gone, you geezers act like the country is completely lost. I know my neighbors and many people do, sorry you arent friendly enough to get to know yours. You can never fully trust a everyone, so sleeping with yer door and windows unlocked, has NEVER been a good idea, but you know what...i still do it from time to time so things must not be that bad. Apparently you haven't been to a football game lately, people still rise for the national anthem. Maybe you should get out more, just sayin'.


Theres nothing wrong with questioning authority, or a pledge of allegiance. To not do such would be to blindly follow the fools that are really running this country into the ground. So I'll play devils advocate now and argue that blindly following the rhetoric involved in a pledge of allegiance helps to create some sort of blind righteousness in the public and makes them more susceptible to nationalistic propaganda, even when their best interests aren't in the minds of the propaganda machine.



posted on Feb, 28 2010 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


It sounds like you need a lesson in respect of personal space and respect another persons opinion of you, whether or not you think every stranger deservers your respect. It's not your place to command another individual's thoughts or ideas of you, it's theirs.

That's not to say you can't show other people respect, of course you can, sometimes...if done often enough, you don't need to resort to attacking or harassing people and demanding they show you the same respect you claim to show them.

As for the fifth grade teacher who teaches on the meaning behind the pledge and gives the option to stand or not, kudos to you. Every elementary teacher should EDUCATE their students on their subjects rather than force feed them memorization! Yes, that's including the one in the OP.







 
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