My opinion:

(i dont know the exact wording)
"pick up a rock and i am there, turn over a log and i am there"

Basically I dont feel that ppl need a church to have their sins forgiven and stuff. (but that could just be cos i aint of that religeion)

As my dear mother once put it to the catholic preist for her wedding - "It doesnt matter where you pray, could be on the #ter(toilet), as long as you feel comfortable with where you are"

But personally no matter what religion you are, your god should be everywhere for you, so why do you have to have a building for it?

(im tired i hope this comes across ok)

God is everywhere, but he promised to peter to build a church, he promised
he would dwell i this church.

Its a gathering for.

1. confession as god ordered his disciples to do.

"" whoever sins you shall fogive they are forgiven them, whoevr sins you shall
obtain they are obtained them ""

what mere man has the right to obtain sin?


2. recieve communion

3. pray with a gathering of souls

4. praising god on the sabbath with many souls

5. a pastor teaching about gods law to many people


how can the message get across if no churc was made?


god is everywhere, but he dwells within the bosom o the atholic church, the body
of christ.

peace.

Cinnamon Phoenix Jayne,

Your most recent post hits true to my heart. I feel that there is no singular religious format that compares to finding ones faith from within. If walking in the door of any particular branch of religious belief brings one peace of mind, then I take my hat off to them.

deleted

A fascinating topic: and it's hard to imagine anyone's not being -at some stage - about to pray; even though he or she might be unsure of exactly how, and to whom, and for what purpose. One recalls the old comment to the effect that no one had ever heard of a Communist who asked for "Das Kapital" on his deathbed.
I'd have been interested in some amplification of the original posting as the connection -whateve it is -between "strict Lutheran" is certainly not transparent. In geneal, the Lutehrans have a somewhat unclear position on the nature, acramental status and purpose of prayer and they certainly have nothing comparable to the Anglican Book of Common Prayer.
Indeed, they put some emphasis on "listening to" rather than "talking to" God -hence their devotion to scriptural study, and their doctrine of salvation by grace through faith is certainly not like the position of other major denominations.
Be that as it may: it is, of course, impossible to state categorically that any benefit believed to have been the result of prayer might not have happened anyway: so we have to consider the subjective statements of those who believe they have prayed with beneficial effects - bearing in mind that "prayer" is in no sense a clear term. Indeed, in doctrinal and dogmatic contexts it is utterly unclear: what a Catholic does when he/she prays is emphatically not -in a doctribnal sense- what an Anglican does.
And just as we must accept that we will be hard put to state positively and in an empirically verifiable mode, that prayer has worked; sceptics will be just as hard put to show the contrary.
If some feel prayer has helped: THREE CHEERS FOR THEM AND PRAYER -and let the doubters leave them in peace.

I'm sorry but i personally dont agree.

You shouldnt need a building built by man and funded for by man to pay worship to what you belive in. If God truely created this world then the world should be a good enough place to give thanks in.

To me "God" is nature. I walk through the streets and see bluebells and give thanks that in the most poluted of area beauty can still shine though and the Earth can still provide us with things, no matter how much we are hurting her. I dont need a building to go to and say "oh thank you for the bluebells that cheared up a dreary day" i say it by the bluebells!

As already stated I have trouble trying to get a cross what i mean half the time. And i try to put myself on both sides of the argument, but here i can only see one side. And im not saying your wrong or im wrong. No one is wrong, its down to personal preferance.

But if you truley belived that "god" created the earth, you wouldnt have to pay out "donations" to fix and build places of worship. You would be able to do it at home, to do it at work, to do it on the bus, to do it in a forest, to do it anywhere.

As for clearing your sins to go to heaven. Something ive never been able to grasp. Its like your not taking personal responcibility for something youve done. - father i had sex with the neighbors wife - well say all this and do all this and you will be cleansed - oh look nothing happned - no sorry thats not how life works.

I was raped by a catholic when i was 7 and he truley thought he had done nothing wrong as "his sin was forgiven" by his god. *growls*

Any way this is not what we are talking about here. Back on topic is does prayer really help you. .... im gonna lie down for a while.

I, like ArcAngel have at several points in my life been in some very very dark places that I never wish to see, or wish upon anyone in a thousand lifetimes. It was at those darkest moments when I would pray and receive the most blessed feelings that nothing in this world can compare to. So, I guess to anser the main topic, yes prayer has definitely helped me.

"has prayer ever helped you?"

yes, definately.

it has helped me out... one situation recently that happened is i prayed for something/someone to motivate me in my studies. I made that prayer 2 weeks ago. Last week a new girl came to my school and we studied together until she left....... I am more motivated to study now. Yeah, it sounds stupid but hey, my prayer came true

Thats a hard question to answer because most of the time in your darkest hour the sun comes yet another day and shines on you. If you had waited and not prayed it might have all worked out anyway. I have personally found very little effectiveness in prayer. I have seen no credible miricles (except life itself), no demons cast out and many unanswered prayers. I do believe that thier is a creator, someone much more intelligent and sophisticated than humans. I believe that religions are mans way of explaining that higher power and not nessecarily the inspired word of God. I believe the earliest people who gained power made opressive rules and used the fear of God to control people and insure that they stay in power.

Originally posted by deleted
Hello ATS,

I came from a strict Lutheran upbringing where prayer was the answer to everything in ones life...good times or bad.

Can anyone please tell me if prayer has had a positive affect on them and why ??

deleted

Prayer, Deleted, is a conversation with the Lord. It is a personal relationship with God. When one prays, one is talking with the Lord and if you ask for something earnestly, you shall recieve it. Whether it be money, forgiveness, a friend to study with, as one who posted said he/she recieved. My father, a mechanic, once lost a small needle bearing out of a u-joint he was working on, and after looking for it for some time, he closed his eyes and said a prayer to the Lord, and when he opened his eyes he instantly focased on the needle bearing laying at his feet. That was one example, another would be when one prays and asks for forgiveness. When one, whom is truly saved and born again, prays for forgiveness-he/she, apon recieveing this forgiveness, feels it deeply within ones heart- it is a overwhelming feeling of its OK that you get in you heart. Almost like you heart is breaking kind of feeling except your heart isnt breaking, its that feeling in your heart thats almost undescribable. If Im not boring you, one more would be while on our way to church one morning, me and my wife were fighting with the devil, as usual he trys to attack you when your vulnerable, anyway, it wasnt a fight fight it was just words of ...........well just not happy....petty sayings and such....anyway when we pulled up to the church abd parked I just started praying outloud and my wife and kids were silent and praying with me- and I prayed for resolve and peace as to go in and recieve Gods word and all of us recieved peace and were able to have a good visit with the Lord that day-that prayer gave an overwhelming calm instantly that is hard to decribe, but definately was of God granting us that prayer for we could not have achieved that peace that way, that fast. Hope I answered your question...........................Believer

How many people killed in the holocaust said please God don't let them kill me?

Originally posted by TgSoe
How many people killed in the holocaust said please God don't let them kill me?

How many people in slaverly said God please give me freedom? Man causes suffering not God

No, but spellcasting and meditation has.


(yes, I'm serious. Yes, I'm of the Wiccan faith.)

(Quote)
How many people in slaverly said God please give me freedom? Man causes suffering not God]


Yo Bro! Well thats a humble beggining for slaves in America but if you were to go and get some tribesmen and bring them to america today ,say 40 that don't speak your language to work in your cotton field how would you go about it? They got food water and shelter and civilization. Many of them learned trades I assume they brought them over to work as whites were going to some of the new colleges and unable to work in the fields.The black race has proven to be some of the brightest most athletic people on the planet and besides they brought to us rock and roll and Jazz music.

Didn't the almighty order Saul to kill men women and children alike in the book of Samuel?

[Edited on 24-5-2003 by TgSoe]