Hungary Criminalises Holocaust Denier's

By a vote of 197 - 1 Hungary passed a Bill with a possible three year prison for the offence of Holocaust Denial. It also includes in the Bill , making light of the
Holocaust, and Questioning the Holocaust even happened.
There were 142 abstentions.

I've never really questioned the Holocaust , or the number of deaths before, But I
think I would like to have the option , without fear of prison.
This is a step in the wrong direction.

www.independent.co.uk...

reply to post by Sean48


Criminalizing opinions ?

Insane, imo

Power and control gone out of control

Motive greed and more power and control

Ah well, won't be visiting Hungary

Ps: I note none of these idiotic nations who believe they can 'make something true' by jailing anyone who disagrees with it, NEVER seek to drag the International Red Cross and its WW2 records into their kangaroo courts

Before you go calling a nation names, perhaps you should research/know their history and how they came to be the way they are today. I will not give you the info as you will learn more on your own. Of course you will say that I have no idea and that is why I stated my thoughts the way I did. I will then call you a lazy American that would rather have the information spoon fed to you and I would be correct in my assumption.

Without giving to much personal info: Mom's side of the family is from Hungary...they escaped and emigrated here (legally, through Ellis island mind you) after sneaking on a boat to escape. Grandfather fought in WW2, but not for the US...

So in trying to find more info on my family tree in Europe I needed to know the complete history of the country. I did this back in High School (early 90's). I am by no means the end all be all guru of Hungarian history but I have a pretty damn good grasp.

Do your research and post here or even U2U me if you like. Or be lazy and not do a thing and continue on with your ignorance...the choice is yours.

Take care

-Nate

You talk about ignorance ?

I don't need your family tree to know that criminalizing opinions is an insane and backwards step --- in addition to being an outrage

reply to post by Acid_Burn2009


Did i mis-represent the truth?

How is the OP ignorant in any way, I showed all the voting numbers.

Is this story wrong?

No , it is not.

Hungary has made Criminal , free speech.

As I wrote , I never questioned the Holocaust, still don't. But I wouldn't

want to go to prison discussing it either.

Criminalizing free speech is wrong, on that we are agreed.

I think we can, or most of us anyway, can also agree that Holocaust Denial is also wrong.

Research into the Holocaust for purposes of finding the actual facts without some form of biased reason is to be applauded. All too often, however, that research is slanted/spun to support a bias.

Hungary has a long history of anti-Jew bias, as does much of Europe. To truly understand the reasoning behind these laws, you had to have lived through the pogroms...

No, it shouldn't be outlawed, because that gives the bigots a platform to say the "truth" is being covered up. But I can understand the thinking behind it.

Perhaps I should have quoted Dock9's post. Not insinuating the OP's thread is false. Not every country in the world is the U$A and have the right to free speech as we do. There are many, many Hungarian citizens who took part in the atrocities of the Holocaust. Whether they volunteered or were forced to join.

There are still many in that country that revere Adolph Hitler as a hero and completely agree with the manner in which he carried out his evil deeds. This, in my opinion, is a way to suppress those that have/still do praise Hitler and his ways. As I stated, not every country, whether they are "free" or not are subject to the same liberties many American's take for granted. What's good for the goose is not always good for the gander.

I think we can agree that our "democracy" or "republic" in the U$A is by no means an example for the rest of the "free" world to follow. Why must we as Americans feel the need to shove our beliefs down the throats of the rest of the world?

The same holds true for Iraq. The minute we leave that country they are going revert back to their stone age ways. They can't help it, it's what they have known for thousands of years. The day America and her Government realizes that we cannot be the world's police force and that we should not be shoving our beliefs down everyone else's gullet, the better off we will be. We need to fend for ourselves and let the rest of the world be.

I digress as the middle east is not the focus of this thread. Hungary is not the U$A and is not subject to the same liberties that most Americans take for granted.

-Nate

**edit to add**
Sean, you will not go to jail for discussing the Holocaust, unless of course you live in Hungary.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Acid_Burn2009]

Originally posted by seagull
Criminalizing free speech is wrong, on that we are agreed.

I think we can, or most of us anyway, can also agree that Holocaust Denial is also wrong.

Research into the Holocaust for purposes of finding the actual facts without some form of biased reason is to be applauded. All too often, however, that research is slanted/spun to support a bias.

Hungary has a long history of anti-Jew bias, as does much of Europe. To truly understand the reasoning behind these laws, you had to have lived through the pogroms...

No, it shouldn't be outlawed, because that gives the bigots a platform to say the "truth" is being covered up. But I can understand the thinking behind it.

My Grandmother still has a deep seated hatred for Jewish people and anyone else, unless your skin is white. I am not saying it's right and there is no changing her way of thinking now. She is 80some years old and deeply set in her ways. She still fears the communists coming to get her.

We can only guess as to what it feels like since we did not directly live through those times and you bring up a good point. My hat is off to you sir for a point well made. All we can do is speculate.

-Nate

reply to post by Acid_Burn2009


Regarding your last 2 posts, ty for those.

The one main reason i enjoy ATS is I learn something every day.

Your 2 posts have taught me today.

Originally posted by Sean48
reply to post by Acid_Burn2009

 

Regarding your last 2 posts, ty for those.

The one main reason i enjoy ATS is I learn something every day.

Your 2 posts have taught me today.

My bad on my 1st response, wasn't trying to call you out on the thread. I should have quoted Doc9's statement. To many on here claim everything is black and white with no grey area. How can we as American's claim that the article in the OP is an outrage when we don't live in Hungary? Like I said, what's good for the goose is not always good for the gander. It's a different country with a different mind set then our own. Some still live in fear of communists and Nazis in those countries. I may not have met many of my family there but I have spoken to them.

-Nate