Well is perception not all that matters? You are right. There is no 'real' value, but what people perceive is all that matters. So long as people
perceive bills to have value, they will have value. This whole perception thing can move onto other topics as well. So long as people perceive the
government to be uncorrupted, they will believe it and nothing will make them question it.
Perception is a beautiful thing.
Money Just A Symbolic, Mutually Shared Illusion, page
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times
ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times
Topic started on 23-2-2010 @ 09:07 PM by Portugoal
Hello all,
Recently I've been thinking a lot about the economy, the political scene and so on and just how fragile it is all. With all this talk about "B.C. 2010", the U.S. $$ collapsing, and States reaffirming their sovereignty, it's kind of hard to ignore.
So I've been thinking lately, how fragile is money? Bills, are paper with ink and maybe a hologram on them. Coins, should actually have more value than bills. There is perceived "value." That is all that is behind it. If a few richm influential people just wanted to blow the lid off the entire thing (the economy), why wouldnt they be able to? They could easily be stockpiling GOLD right now only to say soon that what the rest of the sheeple have been working towards is invaluable.
And then this came (I know it's satirical but it is exactly what I was thinking).
www.theonion.com...
The ONION! It says what people are truly thinking in the end.
So my question is, What is money? Who is to say that the people at the top really haven't been stockpiling something of value for years only to leave everyone else at the bottom rung of the ladder? If the people of government wanted to change the entire system, what can WE the people do? Nothing. Really it's mind boggling.
Any thoughts?
Recently I've been thinking a lot about the economy, the political scene and so on and just how fragile it is all. With all this talk about "B.C. 2010", the U.S. $$ collapsing, and States reaffirming their sovereignty, it's kind of hard to ignore.
So I've been thinking lately, how fragile is money? Bills, are paper with ink and maybe a hologram on them. Coins, should actually have more value than bills. There is perceived "value." That is all that is behind it. If a few richm influential people just wanted to blow the lid off the entire thing (the economy), why wouldnt they be able to? They could easily be stockpiling GOLD right now only to say soon that what the rest of the sheeple have been working towards is invaluable.
And then this came (I know it's satirical but it is exactly what I was thinking).
www.theonion.com...
The ONION! It says what people are truly thinking in the end.
So my question is, What is money? Who is to say that the people at the top really haven't been stockpiling something of value for years only to leave everyone else at the bottom rung of the ladder? If the people of government wanted to change the entire system, what can WE the people do? Nothing. Really it's mind boggling.
Any thoughts?
reply posted on 23-2-2010 @ 10:15 PM by ExPostFacto
reply to post by Portugoal
There is a thread going regarding moneyless society. Your ideas are right on the mark. Money is only perceived value, and guess what we could trade anything that we considered of value so long as we agreed. The idea is in our head only. It is nothing but an agreed upon method of exchange.
This is why I propose a system of trade that is totally held within the mind of people. A concept so simple that nobody could control or influence it. A scalable system that could operate on a whole, within local communities, or just in your own neighborhood.
Even gold and silver isn't really of value to the average person. If you don't have food or water do you think trading someone gold for their last meal is going to work? Absolutely not. We talk of a total economic collapse, disruption of food, rioting, etc. Gold and Silver will not be traded without industry, banks, and people whom already have resources stockpiled.
There is a thread going regarding moneyless society. Your ideas are right on the mark. Money is only perceived value, and guess what we could trade anything that we considered of value so long as we agreed. The idea is in our head only. It is nothing but an agreed upon method of exchange.
This is why I propose a system of trade that is totally held within the mind of people. A concept so simple that nobody could control or influence it. A scalable system that could operate on a whole, within local communities, or just in your own neighborhood.
Even gold and silver isn't really of value to the average person. If you don't have food or water do you think trading someone gold for their last meal is going to work? Absolutely not. We talk of a total economic collapse, disruption of food, rioting, etc. Gold and Silver will not be traded without industry, banks, and people whom already have resources stockpiled.
reply posted on 23-2-2010 @ 10:19 PM by Portugoal
reply to post by ExPostFacto
So what? Essentially what I think you're saying is bartering. People just trade amongst themselves and make up their own idea of value based on their actual needs rather than trading money?
So what? Essentially what I think you're saying is bartering. People just trade amongst themselves and make up their own idea of value based on their actual needs rather than trading money?
reply posted on 23-2-2010 @ 10:19 PM by In nothing we trust
Originally posted by Portugoal
The ONION! It says what people are truly thinking in the end.
This video is some seriously funny sh*t
www.theonion.com...
[edit on 23-2-2010 by In nothing we trust]
reply posted on 24-2-2010 @ 12:27 AM by Portugoal
reply to post by mirageofdeceit
Well I was going to say that bills are nothing more than IOUs circulating but I wasnt sure how people would understand that. The thing is these IOUs still don't have any backing to them. Was it not that before the Reserve would back them up and call on them with Gold but now there is nothing to back them up so only perception is what keeps it circulating.
As for Ghost Money, it really is scary. I put money into a bank. If I deposit a cheque, nothing tangible with value is ever exchanged. The bank uses the ghost money I just deposited to invest in commodities (maybe gold?
) and make more money. If the whole system were to crash, there goes
everything. Down the drain.
It's scary enough to think that people THINK they have money stashed away but its really nothing but a number. You can call on this money to get tangible cash at any time but then again, we're back to the whole problem with money not having ANY value.
*FUN FACT* The copper in every penny made in Canada is worth more than 1 cent. Invest in that
Well I was going to say that bills are nothing more than IOUs circulating but I wasnt sure how people would understand that. The thing is these IOUs still don't have any backing to them. Was it not that before the Reserve would back them up and call on them with Gold but now there is nothing to back them up so only perception is what keeps it circulating.
As for Ghost Money, it really is scary. I put money into a bank. If I deposit a cheque, nothing tangible with value is ever exchanged. The bank uses the ghost money I just deposited to invest in commodities (maybe gold?
) and make more money. If the whole system were to crash, there goes
everything. Down the drain. It's scary enough to think that people THINK they have money stashed away but its really nothing but a number. You can call on this money to get tangible cash at any time but then again, we're back to the whole problem with money not having ANY value.
*FUN FACT* The copper in every penny made in Canada is worth more than 1 cent. Invest in that
reply posted on 24-2-2010 @ 03:18 AM by Graybeard
reply to post by mirageofdeceit
Most coins aren't even worth the amount that's stamped on them. Pennies are mostly made of zinc, dimes and quarters are mostly copper. The only current coin that comes close to it's value is the nickel and that's because it's mostly copper. Since it's the second largest circulated coin(Ergo, more copper) with the second lowest value, its actually worth it's denomination in metal.
Moving on....
Money circulated today, metal or paper, is worthless. It's all smoke and mirrors. I have a friend who tried to get $15,000 in cash from his savings account last year. He had $25,000 in savings at the time but the bank got all bent out of shape because they didn't actually have $15,000 on hand. They don't actually have the cash on hand, it's mostly expected to be moved around electronically via debit cards or by proxy via checks.
Most coins aren't even worth the amount that's stamped on them. Pennies are mostly made of zinc, dimes and quarters are mostly copper. The only current coin that comes close to it's value is the nickel and that's because it's mostly copper. Since it's the second largest circulated coin(Ergo, more copper) with the second lowest value, its actually worth it's denomination in metal.
Moving on....
Money circulated today, metal or paper, is worthless. It's all smoke and mirrors. I have a friend who tried to get $15,000 in cash from his savings account last year. He had $25,000 in savings at the time but the bank got all bent out of shape because they didn't actually have $15,000 on hand. They don't actually have the cash on hand, it's mostly expected to be moved around electronically via debit cards or by proxy via checks.
reply posted on 24-2-2010 @ 10:32 AM by Portugoal
reply to post by Graybeard
Exactly it's all ghost money. The money doesn't exist. It's nothing but a number really. We trade invaluable numbers.
Exactly it's all ghost money. The money doesn't exist. It's nothing but a number really. We trade invaluable numbers.
reply posted on 24-2-2010 @ 07:24 PM by In nothing we trust
Originally posted by Portugoal
reply to post by Graybeard
Exactly it's all ghost money. The money doesn't exist. It's nothing but a number really. We trade invaluable numbers.
What's to stop someone from just making up numbers?
Add a 0 here, lose a 0 there. Press enter.
reply posted on 7-4-2010 @ 02:37 PM by kr0ss
reply to post by Portugoal
I think you meant 'worthless' numbers, perhaps?
The more i think about money, the monetary system and the perception people have about it, the more i agree with the venus project. Any other solution i read about can be 're-bought' by TPTB.
I think you meant 'worthless' numbers, perhaps?
The more i think about money, the monetary system and the perception people have about it, the more i agree with the venus project. Any other solution i read about can be 're-bought' by TPTB.
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