Taxes Are Not A Duty

reply to post by Snarf


People would donate more to charity if there were no taxes.

Even a 2 year old can figure that out.

Are you seriously suggesting that people will donate less to charity if there were no taxes?

I mean seriously, at least bring some real arguments to the table here.

reply to post by mnemeth1

Are you seriously suggesting that people will donate less to charity if there were no taxes?

Yes, that is exactly what im saying. The more money the average person has, the more money they spend.

You know what separates rich people from middle class & poor?

Rich people don't spend. They save & invest. They make a good name for themselves so that others will want to do business with them as well.

One of the best ways to make that name for themself is charitable donations.

Want proof?

How many people donated to poor people in Haiti before the EQ?
How many people donated to fix the infrastructure in New Orleans before Katrina?

And how many people donated after a few celebrities got on board & made it popular?

Make it popular to donate, and Americans pour their hearts out through their wallet.

A very good way to make it popular is by offering.....you got it - TAX INCENTIVES

Want even MORE proof?

Very very few people will give anything up for nothing & not expect anything else in return.

And there aren't enough of those "very very few" to make up for the gobs of people you would lose if there were no incentive to be charitable (tax incentives)

You really should re-think your arguments man. You claim others don't bring anything real...but you've brought nothing what so ever...just a feverish rant about why its not "Fair" that you have to pay for what you use.

You bring no proof, just ranting. Thats not an argument, its a temper tantrum.


[edit on 24-2-2010 by Snarf]

reply to post by Snarf



Do you even understand how charitable tax deductions work?

People don't save money by donating to charity.

You do realize this right?

The rich aren't donating to charity because it creates earnings or more wealth for them. Tax deductions on charitable giving don't actually earn the giver any money. They simply act to increase the real amount a giver gives. By increasing the deductions it allows someone who donates 100 dollars to charity to really only lose 75 dollars by his donation.

BUT HE'S STILL LOSING 75 DOLLARS!

Hence your argument is ridiculous.

The charity system cannot work. It is unrealistic.

Here is another idea:

1) pay for the services directly. No middleman.

2) pay for using the service. If you don't pay, you can't use it.

This will eliminate state corruption; every penny will be accounted for. And will not force anyone to pay, if they don't like or agree the service.

Originally posted by masterp
The charity system cannot work. It is unrealistic.

Here is another idea:

1) pay for the services directly. No middleman.

2) pay for using the service. If you don't pay, you can't use it.

This will eliminate state corruption; every penny will be accounted for. And will not force anyone to pay, if they don't like or agree the service.

I don't think its too unrealistic given the numbers I cite.

That said, in such a society, the vast majority of everything would be run exactly as you just stated.

People would subscribe to fire services, security services, manage their own roads, manage their own property, and be generally responsible for everything they use directly.

You have to understand how money is created in this country before you understand taxes. Our monetary system is a fiction created by the punching of a keyboard. It is not backed by anything and created out of debt. Our government continually runs deficits and our taxes do not even come close to paying for the services. How is this possible for so many years? When you understand this you will realize that they can do the same thing without collecting any taxes. The individual income tax's only purpose is to train you to be obedient to the slave master.

Did everyone forget that the Untied States of America was made by a society that was against taxes? Did we also forget that today America is over 27 trillion dollars in debt? Us taxpayers have done our part and paid our taxes... so why are we getting poorer every day? It's reported that 1 million dollars does to the war in the middle East every minute. Also 1 million US dollars disappear (I'm not kidding, the Census actually said "disappear") from our economy a day.

Where's the money going? And am I the only one that finds it odd the same month we bailed out the banks with 700 billion taxpayer dollars we also found the CEOs vacay'n in the Caribbean having $10,000 dinners?

Did anyone else besides me read the part of the Healthcare bill where it says the government has total access to our money, how much we earn, and how much we keep?

Sorry for the rant, much love to you guys. --Bump.

reply to post by mnemeth1



i stopped reading right here because i just couldnt deal with any more complete ignorance of the real world.

you clearly do not understand one of the most critical rules of the free market.

the idea of the free market requires several things implicitly.

one of these things is the perfectly informed consumer. if i had no formal education in chemistry it would be impossible for me to determine whether a given drug was actually effective. the same goes for cars, books, and literally every other product you buy. without regulation people can lie their asses off about their product and i would have no way of knowing.

additionally scientific institutions, and other things would be impossible. it doesnt matter if i eventually get shut down for a faulty product because i have already gotten rich. and i would never get shut down because there is always someone else who doesnt know whats what for me to screw over.

Originally posted by Serious?
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

i stopped reading right here

because if you're not going to read what I wrote, why should i bother reading what you wrote.

Lots of brainwashing (marketing) to us over the last 150 years. It's always a bad idea to allow people to be directly taxed. Direct taxation is not only unlawful, it opens the door to enormous amounts of subjugation and corruption. It won't be easy at first to live in the uSA without the emotional security of taxation as "Government taking care of us". But ultimately it will allow people the freedom to be more responsible and more mature and accountable for their own decisions. Services like water, sewer, garbage, electricity are things most people are paying for already and are not derived from taxation. Sales tax is a good avenue for supplementing "Government" income. Corporate taxation is a second method. Corporations should be taxed high because they are competitors to the common man. I'm not a fan of small business licensing or professional licensing fees.

The Fed should be funded solely by import duties and bills sent to the states for legitimate services rendered. Taxing Foreign corporations is another major source of income to the feds.

There are any # of reasons the IRS is a criminal enterprise besides it being a foreign corporation. And a corporation period. First Benson has proved that the # of states ratifying the 16th amendment are at best 20 and more like 3, when 36 was required. Even if ratified by rationals, the amendment is only a license not a law and the scope of that license is unclear. The income tax code has no true law in it but it's statues and regulations can be applied to foreign income sources by contract. There are no entries that apply to State Sovereigns.

Most of taxation has been pure theft and has not served the people as claimed by the government. Eliminating the corporate state and it's false authority will go a long way to eliminating corruption, theft and waste.

Originally posted by ReelView
Lots of brainwashing (marketing) to us over the last 150 years. It's always a bad idea to allow people to be directly taxed. Direct taxation is not only unlawful, it opens the door to enormous amounts of subjugation and corruption. It won't be easy at first to live in the uSA without the emotional security of taxation as "Government taking care of us". But ultimately it will allow people the freedom to be more responsible and more mature and accountable for their own decisions. Services like water, sewer, garbage, electricity are things most people are paying for already and are not derived from taxation. Sales tax is a good avenue for supplementing "Government" income. Corporate taxation is a second method. Corporations should be taxed high because they are competitors to the common man. I'm not a fan of small business licensing or professional licensing fees.

The Fed should be funded solely by import duties and bills sent to the states for legitimate services rendered. Taxing Foreign corporations is another major source of income to the feds.

There are any # of reasons the IRS is a criminal enterprise besides it being a foreign corporation. And a corporation period. First Benson has proved that the # of states ratifying the 16th amendment are at best 20 and more like 3, when 36 was required. Even if ratified by rationals, the amendment is only a license not a law and the scope of that license is unclear. The income tax code has no true law in it but it's statues and regulations can be applied to foreign income sources by contract. There are no entries that apply to State Sovereigns.

Most of taxation has been pure theft and has not served the people as claimed by the government. Eliminating the corporate state and it's false authority will go a long way to eliminating corruption, theft and waste.

Well you are definitely hot on the trail sir.

With a little work I think I could make a proper Austrian out of you.

Start here:

www.youtube.com...

Then move on to here:

fascistsoup.com...

Then watch every one of these videos here:

www.youtube.com...


Finally read this:

mises.org...

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

In a free market, corporations that engage in evil would not make a lot of profits.

In fact, once the market finds out a corporation is engaged in fraud, they typically stop doing business with them rapidly.

The people who live in a delusional dream world are socialists that think social justice comes at the point of a gun.

You have it backwards. Corporations that engage in fraud actually make the most money. I think it is the duty of government to ensure that corporations act in the public interest as much as possible.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Snarf

 

People would donate more to charity if there were no taxes.

Even a 2 year old can figure that out.

Are you seriously suggesting that people will donate less to charity if there were no taxes?

I mean seriously, at least bring some real arguments to the table here.

Seriously, if we had no need for charities, no one would give them any money. As it is, the majority of money now given to charity goes to pay the salaries of the higher ups.

The solution is to eliminate taxes and just print the money as someone has previously posted. It would solve everything.

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
[

Originally posted by mnemeth1

One, schools have no incentive to improve and teachers unions prevent bad teachers from being weeded out. Parents are forced to send their kids to the schools in their districts and have no choice in the matter.

Two, since medical care is "free" for a large portion of people, people don't give a flying crap how much anything costs. Thus medical providers have no incentive to keep prices down.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by mnemeth1]

You need to take your head out of the sand.

It is increasingly common for entire schools full of teachers to lose their jobs if their students don't perform to standards. It is happening everywhere. I just took guardianship of a first grader and am overwhelmed by the standard they have set for today's first graders. They are far ahead of what I was taught in first grade in the early 70's. Way ahead. They are actually doing algebra in the first grade. I got it in 6-8th grade.

The people have no ability to determine medical costs. The goverment does a much better job of capping costs than private insurance companies. Look at medicare for example. by far the most efficient healthcare system in our country. As the government gets more control over healthcare you will also see that they get more control over limiting costs. private industry has the incentive to raise cost because as they pay more the same profit margin % means higher profits.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Snarf

 

Do you even understand how charitable tax deductions work?

People don't save money by donating to charity.

You do realize this right?

The rich aren't donating to charity because it creates earnings or more wealth for them. Tax deductions on charitable giving don't actually earn the giver any money. They simply act to increase the real amount a giver gives. By increasing the deductions it allows someone who donates 100 dollars to charity to really only lose 75 dollars by his donation.

BUT HE'S STILL LOSING 75 DOLLARS!

Hence your argument is ridiculous.

YOUR arguement is ridiculous!

The rich ARE donating money to charity because it lowers their taxable income thus they end up paying less taxes, in theory.

my god this place is hopeless.

Supply and demand?

Competition in markets?

I'm not talking above a high school level here. This is basic stuff even a grade school student should be able to grasp.

"People have no ability to determine medical costs" ???

I guess that's why we see prices falling and quality improving when it comes to plastic surgery - which is not covered by any insurance or government handouts.

"The rich only donate money to charity because it lowers their taxable income" ????

You seriously believe this? Even after I point out that they LOSE money by donating to charity?

Are you just trolling or do you have trouble comprehending what I'm writing here? Do you want me to go over the facts again? I can do that for you if you are still not grasping the basics of what I'm saying. Just point out what part you don't understand and I'll explain it again for you.

Now in all fairness how is the ATF supposed to confiscate 30 (customizable to machine gun - their words) Airsoft rifles without orange tips without the fine taxpayers paying for their invaluable service?

The manpower and equipment needed for this (very important) operation must be considerably expensive and we must all do our due diligence to insure that these fine men and women keep us safe.

www.koinlocal6.com...

Please just go with the flow and pay up - imagine if these weapons had fallen into the wrong hands

[edit on 27-2-2010 by WWJFKD]

Originally posted by BillfromCovina
You have to understand how money is created in this country before you understand taxes. Our monetary system is a fiction created by the punching of a keyboard. It is not backed by anything and created out of debt. Our government continually runs deficits and our taxes do not even come close to paying for the services. How is this possible for so many years? When you understand this you will realize that they can do the same thing without collecting any taxes. The individual income tax's only purpose is to train you to be obedient to the slave master.

Great post! The reason all countries are running a deficit is because the governments and people BUY money from PRIVATE central banks at a fluctuating interest rate.

As to "it is not backed by anything and created of debt", money does not have to be backed up. Fiat money(same as monopoly money) is perfectly fine as long as the government is issuing it! If the government issues money, via the treasury department, that means the prime rate(if they decide to use it) will generate enormous amounts of money, which means much lower taxes.

Deficits will become a thing of the past as most countries would have a surplus. A public monopoly is exactly what we need to get rid of the leeches at the top sucking us dry.

reply to post by mnemeth1


I am not trolling at all! We just have differing opinions of ideology and what works better. Your version of free-market capitalism is long gone, probably 2 millenia ago.

Now-a-days BIG BUSINESS dominates capitalism, and we are not talking about mid-size companies, we are talking about huge multi-national firms that have all the money they need to bribe governments, destabilize economies, pollute the enviroment, sell tainted merchandise, engage in price fixing, etc......