All israelis and "jews" please post. I have a question

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by thedeadtruth

 

The promise is for ALL peoples... It came first through the Jews, then to Gentiles, but the promise belongs to all....... Everyone one in Messiah...

would you mind explaining what Gentiles are compared to those if the jewish faith.

reply to post by illusive man


A Gentile is simply a none Jew.................

second line

Gosh, it didn't take long for the Arab, Israeli, wackjob evangelical War to start here.

Judaism is a religion. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. There are Jews of every race on the planet. There are Semitic people of all religions - again, sorry, you can't have it both ways.

Jews lived in Palestine for hundreds of years along side Muslim and Christians in peace until the Zionist movement about 100 years ago. Sorry but this is just a fact.

Zionism is an ideology, not a religion, not a race of people. Sorry again, but no amount of spin or lies can change the facts.

Now, for Jews ( those that actually practice the religion) there is very clear instructions about returning to Israel. It is NOT ALLOWED.

From jewsgainstzionism.com:

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Three Strong Oaths

The true Jewish position on Zionism and the state called Israel is found in the Scriptures in the Talmud and in the oral traditions transmitted to us by our parents and teachers.

At the outset of the Jews' exile to Babylonia, the Prophet Jeremiah, in chapter 29 of his book proclaimed G-d's message to all the exiled…Verse seven reads, "Seek out the welfare of the city to which I have exiled you and pray for it to the Almighty, for through its welfare will you have welfare." This has been a cornerstone of Jewish "foreign policy" how to behave in the lands of the nations throughout our ensuing exiles till this very day.

There Jeremiah adds in the name of G-d (verses 8 and 9), "Do not let your false prophets among you and your sorcerers seduce you, do not head your dreamers which you cause them to dream. For they speak falsely to you in My name. I did not send them." This too has applied to all the would-be misleaders of Jewry whether they presented themselves as prophets or as sorcerers or as dreamers of national aspirations.

King Solomon in Song of Songs thrice adjured the "daughters of Jerusalem" not to arouse or bestir the love until it is ready." The Talmud explains That we have been foresworn, by three strong oaths, not to ascend to the Holy Land as a group using force, not to rebel against the governments of countries in which we live, and not by our sins, to prolong the coming of moshiach; as is written in Tractate Kesubos 111a .

Throughout the seventy years of the Babylonian exile, throughout the 200 years of the Hellenic exile and throughout the 1917 since the destruction of G-d's Holy House, we have steadfastly maintained our loyalty to G-d and have not transgressed His oaths. And we have prayed for the welfare of the cities and the countries of our host nations that did not oppress us, and in their welfare we indeed always found ours.

Whoever violates Jeremiah's principles or Solomon's oaths immediately imperils the welfare of Jews locally and elsewhere in the world.

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Now, again, you cannot have it both ways. If you believe in the State of Israel you are not a Jew according to the Torah, You are a Zionist.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Smack]

Judging by what I've read here I can see why the Middle
East is so screwed up. I'm not trying to be a comedian either.

reply to post by Smack

I take exception to your post it makes sense.

reply to post by siahchi


A bit of basic research would help to place your confusion in context.

I mean really basic. Like Google. Like Wikipedia.

Wikipedia: Semitic

The following is a list of ancient Semitic peoples.

* Akkadians — migrated into Mesopotamia in the late 4th millennium BC and amalgamate with non-Semitic Mesopotamian (Sumerian) populations into the Assyrians and Babylonians of the Late Bronze Age.[4][5]
* Eblaites — 23rd century BC
* Aramaeans or Chaldea — 16th to 8th century BC[6] / Akhlames (Ahlamu) 14th century BC[7]
* Ugarites, 14th to 12th centuries BC
* Canaanite language speaking nations of the early Iron Age:
o Amorites
o Ammonites
o Edomites
o Hebrews/Israelites — founded the nation of Israel which later split into the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah. The remnants of these people became the Jews and Samaritans.
o Moabites
o Phoenicians — founded Mediterranean colonies including Carthage
* Old South Arabian speaking peoples
o Sabaeans of Yemen — 9th to 1st c. BC
* Ethio-Semitic speaking peoples
o Aksumites — 4th c. BC to 7th c. AD
* Arabs, Old North Arabian speaking Bedouins
o Gindibu's Arabs 9th c. BC
o Lihyanites — 6th to 1st c. BC
o Thamud people — 2nd to 5th c. AD
o Ghassanids — 3rd to 7th c. AD
o Nabataeans — adopted Arabic in the 4th century AD

Which means that basically all the peoples of the Middle East and South eastern Europe are Semitic. So "Semite" covers a lot of ground and your argument is meaningless really.

But your argument comes from the spring of 'anti-semite' which, in common usage means 'anti-Jew'. By that I do not mean you are anti-semite, only that because the 'anti-semitic' world view exists, your question can exist. This concept has only existed since about 1879 (Marr's "The Victory of Germandom over Jewry").

More from the Wikipedia article above:

In contrast, some recent genetic studies found that analysis of the DNA of Semitic-speaking peoples suggests that they have some common ancestry. Though no significant common mitochondrial results have been yielded, Y-chromosomal links between Semitic-speaking Near-Eastern peoples like Arabs, Assyrians and Hebrews have proved fruitful, despite differences contributed from other groups (see Y-chromosomal Aaron). The studies attribute this correlation to a common Near Eastern origin, since Semitic-speaking Near Easterners from the Fertile Crescent (including Jews) were found to be more closely related to non-Semitic speaking Near Easterners (such as Iranians, Anatolians, and Caucasians) than to other Semitic-speakers (such as Gulf Arabs, Ethiopian Semites, and North African Arabs).

It's not about bloodlines, the "seed" is not pure in anyone today physically, it's about Aliyah to the promises of the Covenant.

Jewish is Judaism not Judah, and the land is Israel not Judaea.
Israel is any people of all nations who arrive to the Agreement.

reply to post by rnaa


Um, maybe your confused. Nowhere did I state that I wasn't aware of what a Semite was. I was confused about northern Europeans calling themselves Semites. Secular and reform jews calling themselves Jewish. And wikipedia is definately biased on these subjects.Perhaps it didn't occur to you that the Jewish doctors who did the chromosomal studies of fertile crescent Semites largly tested Israeli Jews, who of course were related to Aryans Caucasians and Turks, basically affirming what I've been saying. They weren't testing Gazans, they weren't testing Palestinians of the west bank. Do YOUR research (and not just on wikipedia either) I won't repeat the research on the genetic evidence I've already posted, type my name in the search function and it will come right up.So, yeah.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by siahchi]

but isnt christianity just a basic form of extremist judaism that has its roots in martyrdom, to preform christo..

All of the jews living in or coming from eastern Europe, came originally from an ancient asian Kingdom known as the Khazars. At some point, the whole population adopted a form of judaism and many of them migrated to Europe and later on to other countries. Genetically speaking, jews whose ancestors lived in the middle east are a minority of the worldwide jewish population. So no, they aren't semites at all. The Palestinians are more semitic then most of the jews now living in Israel. Here is a good backgrounder to this info.

www.fourwinds10.com...

reply to post by Smack


You got that right. You could also have mentioned that the Talmud encourages jews to cheat, steal from and even kill non-jews. It's okay for a jewish man to have sex with an non-jewish woman but it's not okay for jewish women to 'defile' themselves by having sex with a non-jewish man. Non-jews are considered sub-human and should be treated the same way as cattle. The Talmud also says jews are entitled to dominate the entire world. It then states that non-jews are not to be allowed to read the Talmud and that any jew who reveals it's secrets or translates it into a non-jewish language must be killed.

Now for the record, I do not hate jews. I think that most jews are decent, honest, hardworking and loyal citizens of the countries they live in and most probably haven't even read the Talmud but there is definitely a minority that take it's instructions seriously and literally. And unfortunately they have highjacked the zionist movement. More and more long time supporters of the original zionist goal of a religiously faithful jewish state are now becoming disillusioned with what Israel has turned into which is a secular, fascist, empirebuilder that seeks to dominate the entire region. Even holocaust survivors are appalled at what the IDF did and is still doing to the Palestinians. Zionism is indeed a political ideology that is becoming more and more interchangable with good old fashioned nazi fascsim and that is a threat not only to non-jews everywhere but also to jews as well because rightly or wrongly, they will be blamed for zionism's atrocities.

Originally posted by zerbot565
but isnt christianity just a basic form of extremist judaism that has its roots in martyrdom, to preform christo..

Not at all, Christianity is basically the Jews at the time accepted Jesus or yeshua as the Messiah. A lot of people like to say Jesus is like a martyred and used a battle cry many years after his supposed death. for the many Jews that were supposedly crucified by the Romans. If you believe in Jesus or not, His image and teachings did have a transformation of religions of the time in the Eastern Hampshire.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Romantic_Rebel]