All israelis and "jews" please post. I have a question

Let me try to help you understand who, in my opinion, the chapters are talking about. It refers to Gog of the land of Magog, chief prince of Meshach and Tubal. Tubal is an ancient name for the area around Tobolsk in Siberia and Meshach is an ancient name for the area around Moscow.

Magog was a grandson of Noah and evidently settled in the area known as present day Russia. Gomer, Tubal and Meshach were also grandsons of Noah and are also mentioned. Persia is mentioned by name. All in all, the names mentioned make up Russia and the Muslim nations of the Middle East and Southwest Asia.

Obviously some of the countries didn't exist, as we know them, thousands of years ago when the prophecy was written. They are called by the names of the descendents of Noah based on where they settled.

It speaks of a time when a massive force, lead by Gog, or Russia will come against Israel, millions and millions of heavily armed troops advancing south to lay waste and conquer the tiny nation of Israel which is just over seven million in population.

www.charliedaniels.com...

Ezekiel 38, www.youtube.com...

Ezekiel 39, www.youtube.com...

Verse 6 adds Gomer and Beth-Togarmah to the coalition. "Gomer" was the first son of Japheth. The Gomerites were the ancient Cimmerians, expelled in 700 B.C. from the southern steppes of Russia into what is today Turkey. "Togarmah" is the 3rd son of Gomer and beth at the beginning of the name is the Hebrew word for 'house' or 'place of'. In Ezekiel's time there was a city in Cappodocia (Modern Turkey) known as Tegarma, Tagarma, Til-garimmu, and Takarama.

www.contenderministries.org...

The ancient kingdom of Cush in Ezekiels time was the land just south of Egypt on the Nile River. Today this land is occupied by Sudan. Sudan is home to the National Islamic Front, is ruled by an Islamic military dictatorship, a strong supporter of Iraq, home to Osama bin Landen from 1991-1996, and harbors countless Islamic terrorist groups. Sudan would easily fit into the coalition as it is already close allies with Iran, trading military supplies for docking rights on the Red Sea shipping routes.

Ancient Put was the land just west of Egypt, or what is today Libya. Libya is another sponsor of terrorism, and openly refuses to recognize Israel's right to even exist. When the coalition against Israel is formed, Libya won't have to be asked twice to join.

www.contenderministries.org...

Anyone with half a brain can see that happening today as it almost did in 2008 when Russia caught word of an American task force was about to attack Iran. Russia invaded south into Georgia, Only Bush cooling Putin down stopped this prophecy from coming true that year. To be honest you could see that Russia was not ready for it either because if Bush had given the order the Russians could have been ripped to shreds by our air force.

Now you know why Americans and Israelis had a heavy presence in that little country, Its a natural path for Russia to take when it wants to send troops to Israel.

Now Russia has no road block in the way, Turkey will not fight Russia and probably will side with them and Iran today should Iran be attacked. Prophecy is about to be fulfilled.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


NO, Semitic people are not Caucasian, Caucasians are descendants of Japeth, Semites are brown and Hamites tend to be darker brown. Whether east or west, Yiddish is a Germanic European language bearing no relation to the Afro-Asiatic language family of Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, Amharic, Hausa, or ancient Egyptian. And a Chinese Muslim (of which I know a few) born anywhere has never laid claim to any other country then their own. Muslim, like Jewish, is a religion, not a race. What does Mecca have to do with any of this? We are dealing with two subjects here 1.) Judaism-a religion having nothing to do with race and 2.) Semites- an ethnic grouping. And I never said a word about khazarians, other posters did, although it has been proven there is a group of European Jews indeed descended from said khazarians. I feel this thread getting a bit off topic. This is not a debate about who "owns" the land but by what standards Secular Caucasian Europeans define themselves as Jewish. The conflict is not about religion, as so often painted in western media, but about ethnic tensions, much like race relations throughout the world. Back to the topic...



[edit on 23-2-2010 by siahchi]

By the way, thanks Yissachar1 and poedxsoldiervet for posting replies relevant to the topic. Anyone else please feel free to reply as well, I know people will not stay on the original subject but perhaps this thread can help clear up confusion on several levels, and we can all learn something. If we stay clear of spewing hate from either side of the debate and stick to facts, this might actually turn out to be a real thread on the subject and not a shouting match as these things generally turn out.

reply to post by siahchi

I would point out that from what Jews have told me the state of israel is not to be established until the coming of what to them is the true "messiah",

This is where myself and orthodox Jewry don't agree... I believe that Messiah came already in the form of Yeshua... There is a growing Messianic movement in Israel at the moment which has got nothing to do with the evangelizing of Christians but everything to do with Jews themselves thinking for themselves... We get a lot of trouble from many Jewish sects but we don't care lol... We see ourselves as "completed Jews" .....

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by siahchi

 

I would point out that from what Jews have told me the state of israel is not to be established until the coming of what to them is the true "messiah",

This is where myself and orthodox Jewry don't agree... I believe that Messiah came already in the form of Yeshua... There is a growing Messianic movement in Israel at the moment which has got nothing to do with the evangelizing of Christians but everything to do with Jews themselves thinking for themselves... We get a lot of trouble from many Jewish sects but we don't care lol... We see ourselves as "completed Jews" .....

[SNIP] and the quicker the world stops funding you people, the less damage the inevitable.

1. You are not Hebrew, for the millionth time. You are a Caucasian from the seed of Japheth. You are a Khazar who comes from Magog. Your brothers are Turks.

2. No messiah has come yet, and when he comes you will still nbe a Khazar.

3. You are not a "Jew" in any way shape or form.



Personal attack removed

[edit on 23/2/10 by masqua]

reply to post by TSawyer


I am a Jew.. I was born a Jew.. I will die a Jew... You can get as flustered as you like with YOUR false claims and Mullah fantasies... I suppose you think that God will turn us into chimps too huh?.....

Quite frankly I think you need some therapy for your hatred... Because the only one that it is hurting is you.. Not me.... You..... Then you can tell the most likely a Jewish shrink about why he isn't a Jew for a million times

I will pray for you....

I don't understand why every thread dealing with the topic of Israel and or Jewish people has to devolve into personal attacks.

Without calling anyone out by name I'm going to request one FINAL time that the personal attacks stop. Just because you disagree with someone does not give you permission to call them names and mock them.

Continuing to demonstrate the lack of ability to debate without using nasty insults will result in an account termination.

It's enough.

I'm going to have to go with Djarums on this. Can we stick to facts and leave the mudslinging and epithets out? Sure, Ive got my opinions, but neither calling someone a mullah nor a gog-magog advances anything and debases a coversation to an argument. I think everyone posting here has clear cut opinions however by name calling no one is learning anything. I knew this would be a heated topic, but since I've always wanted to know the dynamics of how this works I asked. So many times I've not been clear on various topics and by coming to ATS and asking questions I've come away with a better understanding of things. Can we not all come together to learn? When people have made statements I've known not to be true I've presented the facts and let them rest (see my response to sky watcher saying there are no Palestinians on pg.1, his next post deals with facts he found and links dealing with gog-magog). Generally they do not reply with more of the same. Name calling on the other hand always generates endless replies of more name calling and usually derails threads completely. Can we get back to the topic PLEASE?

[edit on 24-2-2010 by siahchi]

reply to post by Yissachar1

Interesting. I'm aware of the Jews for Jesus movements but had no idea that it was so widespread. Is that the correct term for the school of thought? Also, as a Christian is essientialy a follower of the old testament And new testament would that not mean you are now Christian? Do you also follow the teachings of the Talmud, and does this differentiate you as a Jew for Jesus rather than a Christian? Is the term messianic Jew or is that not correct?

reply to post by siahchi


Well christianity is essentially a total redesign of judaism. It's that people tend to associate it with catholocism and the protestants which itself is nothing like the original "remade" judaism that christianity is. at least that was how my rabbi explained it when i was younger. My own torah/bible and historical research lead me to the same conclusions. Plus when i was attending the reform temple in my old town i pretty much remembered the scriptures from sunday school.

i'm a texas and i'm israel.... the jews are judah or benjamin or dan...op said israel too. what about the other israelites.
ephraim and manaseh....britain and USA like in crosby stills nash-manaseh's

reply to post by siahchi


No I wouldn't call myself a Christian but a Jew.. Yeshua wasn't a Christian either! We are known as Messianic Jews... We still do the Jewish stuff like keep the feasts, shabbat etc....
I don't take any notice of the Talmud however... To me its a man made rulebook and a control mechanism... Yeshua only gave us 2 rules; Love God and love each other... The rest is just man made religious BS....

reply to post by Yissachar1


Trying to separate bloodline from belief is difficult, but were you ever taught that Jews or people with Jewish blood have certain rights other men do not ?

I'll try to give you a smart response. i'm about as far from Jewish as you can get, but what the heck.

Originally posted by siahchi
Okay, it's not my intent to antagonize anyone here, but really, how is it a person of Caucasian descent, who is secular, with a Germanic/Slavic/ or Russian surname, whose anscestors speak a eastern European language called Yiddish, can claim to be Semetic or Jewish?

"Semitic" is a rather broad category. It's not the same thing as "Jewish" - the Hebrews are semites, but so are Arabs, so were the Phoenicians and Egyptians, and quite possibly the Cretans and Maltese.

Yiddish is a hybrid language, combining three linguistic families - Germanic and Slavic (both Indo-European) and Hebrew (An Afro-Semitic language). It has properties of all three languages, and most frequently uses Hebrew lettering.

A Semite is a person descended from Sham/Shem, not Japeth as most israelis tend to be(the ones with the most power at least). This has truly puzzled me for the longest and I would really like an answer from some of these individuals.

Pause. Back up. Entire ethnic groups are not the product of one single person. The Hebrews are not the direct descendants of Shem (more likely it was the other way around; Shem was almost definitely Hebraic in ethnicity), and caucasians certainly aren't related to this Japeth fellow. Nor are Africans from Ham, etc. Don't bank on bible stories for your science, you only end up puzzled

Anyone can convert to Judaism (look at Whoopi Goldberg), that doesn't mean that they are descendants of the original stock of Semites/Hamites of the region known as Palestine/ Felastyn/ israel.

Only some jewish sects allow conversion. Anyone can say "I'm a Jew!" but this doesn't mean that they are accepted as such by other Jews. Madonna, for example. I understand her "conversion" is just a constant head-slap among more orthodox jewish communities.

In fact there is strong indication that most Jews in the world are in fact descended from communities that are descended from the near eastern peoples. Any given Jewish person may or may not carry the genes themselves (Genetic drift working how it does) but since the religion itself is generally passed down families rather than grown by conversion, one can guess that any major Jewish community in the world has SOME roots in the near east.

How exactly do you figure yourself to be Semetic, or in the case of secular or even reform Judaism which breaks nearly all of YHVH's covenants, Jewish?

Man, if religious people thought they actually had to follow their religion's teachings, they'd either do so, or all give up and be atheists. Either way hte world would be a better place.

were you ever taught that Jews or people with Jewish blood have certain rights other men do not ?

reply to post by thedeadtruth


No I wasn't...... But I have to admit that there is some arrogant pricks out there who do... But you get those in every race or creed... Most TRUE Jews are humble, keep themselves to themselves.. Work hard....etc

But I guess what the world see's are a people who keep themselves separate from the rest, but that is because of the Law and Jews are obliged to follow it... I however believe that Yeshua took the whole of the Law on Himself, so we are free of it... But we keep the traditions... The feasts etc... But certainly do not think we are better or worse than anyone else!

Just to clarify, I was wondering who the "promises from God" extend to ? If it faith or blood based ?

reply to post by thedeadtruth


The promise is for ALL peoples... It came first through the Jews, then to Gentiles, but the promise belongs to all....... Everyone one in Messiah...

reply to post by Yissachar1


Thanks. Nice to hear we all have a chance.

reply to post by thedeadtruth

EDIT:

Yissachar already said what i was thinking.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by DeathShield]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Man, this is why I love you WalkingFox! This is what it's all about, further refining and getting our facts straight so everyone's level of intelligence is raised. Thank you for adding those corrections, and personally I don't go by the whole "sons of Noah" thing but as most israelis/Jews reference the OT when staking their claim on the land I thought to base my geneology on the basis of their argument. I always had a problem with just three sons that left out whole populations such as (Mongoloid type) Asian, First Peoples American, Aboriginal/ Papuan types, Dravidian Indian, Khoisan, etc... To me, their claim is baseless as 1.) Genetic drift being what it is, their ethnic claim to the land is null and void and 2.) Using the Chinese Muslim analogy again, Chinese Muslims do not claim Mecca as their homeland, nor have they went to war and subjugated the entire indigenous population to support such a claim (which they do not claim). Basically, religious scripture should not be the basis of modern law or real estate claims. The modern israeli government is an apartheid system that is tolerated and defended by the powers of the west, when supposedly everyone is so much more "humanitarian" and "post racial" and "green" and all that other pop culture bandwagon junk everybody is claiming these days. The facts are no where near these claims. For example, if you listen to NPR you couldn't go an hour without hearing about israeli aid to Haiti, however no mention was made of the aid supplied by the very poor Gazans, or for that matter the super rich Saudi Arabians. Nor did they mention how Aristide (popularly elected) was ousted by papa doc with israeli supplied uzis that helped the papa doc/baby doc decade long tyranny begin.