What will you do when the federal government forces you to buy health insurance?

The insurance companies will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Nobody seems to ever tell them that if insurance is mandatory (like with auto insurance) then the premiums must be affordable (well, they are "told" but they pay no attention). The insurance companies lobbied like crazy to get the mandatory auto insurance bill passed, then absolutely fleeced the public on the premiums. With health insurance, it will be the same thing. They will find a way to make immense profit from people's misery. It's what they do.

They get the backing of the government to make you buy their products at high prices!

The government forcing patronage of private, for-profit companies is simply wrong. Since the SCOTUS has now made these scum insurance companies 'people' they can lobby all they like.

You'll be out of pocket either way, and if you've been entangled in the child support bureaucracy you'll know that the government can make life pretty much unlivable if they choose. If you've ever been through child support bureaucracy, you know that you can get hammered for their mistakes. Do insurance companies ever make mistakes?

I feel like I need to help put some of this stuff in perspective...

You all probably heard the phrase "public servant". EVERYONE in government, in one way or another, is a public servant. You quite literally control them, if not directly then indirectly through representation.

Everyone complains to the government about not being taken care of when they're fully capable of taking care of each other if they would just step up to the plate. Then they get angry when the government says "You want us to handle this? Ok, we'll provide that service and take more money from you." If you don't like the way government handles things, stop asking them to do stuff for you! But wait, that means a lot of people would need to change their attitudes.

It may sound cheesy, but JFK had a point - you all know the famous line, but I bet few ever thought about what he was trying to say: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

I think few people go to work every day because they feel like they're helping others. They probably do it because they want to GET money. These people are debtors. They want money and in return they might labor. Be a creditor - help provide for others in any small way you can, and if you get something in return, great. If EVERYONE took the stance of someone who has something to offer rather than someone who needs something, we wouldn't NEED any help from the government.

I don't see that shift in attitude ever happening on a scale large enough to matter, but this is how I see reality.

reply to post by Erasurehead


S&F! Sadly, I feel my family will be forced onto welfare for food if we have to pay all this. We just got priced out of the insurance for my family here at my job due to rate increases and the rise of the family deductible from $1000 to $9000 in 2 years.

Rest assured. This is America. We leave no one behind, learnt from the battlefields of vietnam by thousands of young brave, courageous and loyal black and white Americans together as one.

Probably you may be the ones whom will not be enforced to buy the insurance premiums, due to your current situation, till you achieve a better semblance of financial stability for yourself and your immediate family.

And when you do achieve financial means, do spare a thought for those in your society who had bear that burden in the meantime.

It may sound cliche, but it had been the community that made America strong, till some corporate scums decided to profit themselves at the expense of others which led to the present predicament.

Cheers and good luck. It aint the end as long as we still have brains, hands and legs to survive. :-)

reply to post by John_Brown

Originally posted by John_Brown
...The prisoners at Guantanamo get better health care than most Americans, and I know, because I was a prison guard there, and I took 'tainers to the clinic. You say it isn't fair if we don't all pay our fare share, that it unduly burdens other tax payers? What about all these "conflicts" fought for nothing but fear of a word: terror? They cost money. They cost us our health care, our schools, our roads. Bring ALL the effing troops home, not just the "combat" troops, and Ill think about paying.

This country is Effed in the A. Go ahead, tell me I have to pay, and see what happens. I won't be alone...

(Hopefully you weren't one of the guards that didn't notice 3 detainees hanging themselves in full view of guards and CCTV?)

You're right that the government is spending all of our money on bank bailouts and wars and then telling us that they can't afford non-essentials such as health care, schools, roads, etc.

None of this is accidental and they're counting on us not being able to get organised and do anything about it.

reply to post by an0maly33

Originally posted by an0maly33
You all probably heard the phrase "public servant". EVERYONE in government, in one way or another, is a public servant. You quite literally control them, if not directly then indirectly through representation.

Not a chance. At best we get to make a statement but the big candidates have been paid for by the money people and they are extremely loyal to their masters

Everyone complains to the government about not being taken care of when they're fully capable of taking care of each other if they would just step up to the plate. Then they get angry when the government says "You want us to handle this? Ok, we'll provide that service and take more money from you." If you don't like the way government handles things, stop asking them to do stuff for you! But wait, that means a lot of people would need to change their attitudes.

I suppose you mean things like asking for less arsenic in the water, less pesticides on our food, less lobbying in DC, less experimenting on civilian populations. Or perhaps it's the invasions of Haiti, Afghanistan, Iraq, Panama, etc that I forgot I'd asked for. I certainly don't remember asking for less separation of church and state but we got plenty of that!

I know that huge numbers of people are life-long welfare types but I believe a lot of this is down to disaffection from society and strongly related to the gap between the poor and the elite. Even in the USA, this gap is more to do with the mindset of the elite rather than that of the poor.

The government have been dreaming up ways of spending our money quite well without our help for centuries and this latest health insurance scam is just another raid on our coffers.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


"I won't pay the tax or the fine..."

We have already been down this road. "I won't pay taxes" was the start of the revolutionary war. The same course of events are unfolding for a repeat: Yes we will pay. I am interested in how the government plans to carry out enforcing this law.

Living without health insurance is the equivelent to driving without auto insurance, or at least that is one version being used to promote the healthcare reform. Several years ago it was automobile insurance and being forced to carry coverage for the uninsured just in case your car gets hit by someone driving without insurance; today it is healthcare insurance being forced to pay coverage for people that cannot afford medical care. We know how the rejected idea of being forced to carry automobile insurance went.

I already saw the proposal of raising income taxes and then giving a tax break to those who send proof of insurance with their return. We already know that driving without insurance is illegal but people still do. It only becomes an issue if the person breaks another traffic law or gets into an accident. This proposal is designed to hit everyone in the working classes and those who object to the mandatory insurance will only be affected when he or she has to file an income tax return, get medical care, or apply for some other service that the government has a hand in.

This proposal is an appeal to ignorance. The so-called beneficiaries (poor people) will still recieve inadequate health care, only now the tax payers will pay more for the social privelege of helping the under priveleged.

If it is a given that one way or another we will be paying the tax, you may be wondering what the hold up is and so am I. I heard this from a retired insurance agent: It's one thing to go to bed with the government but totally different when you have to wake up next to it. I think there is something to this disillusioned old man's claim, along the lines of how this proposal could have some serious negative impacts on profits and corporate paychecks of private insurance companies. Once insurance companies can figure out how to slip away before breakfast, we will be paying.

The Second Revolution looms ever closer...

Forcing taxes on us that we don't approve of and making decisions without our say. Clamping down on our society like tyrants from a distant land.

Right now, we are the 50 colonies, they, the tyrant King George. First comes the taxes. When the people refuse to pay the taxes, then comes the enforcement through any means necessary.

Will I take it? No. Because I'm not afraid to dissent like most of the public. I still believe in the age old adage that people should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people. They should be very afraid.

Let them take it out of my paycheck... I have no job.
Let them take my property... I own nothing.
Let them take me... I have nothing to lose.

When a man has nothing to lose, then the only option is to fight and to die for what is right. I am always prepared to do that. Trust me, the time is dawing ever closer.

Star and Flag Erasurehead, good post and right on the money. am with you, and the others who will not bend over for the CORPORATION UNITED STATES. These minions have been screwing the American people for years now, wake up and smell the coffee, people!

I live on Social Security and have Medicare and Medicade, as does my wife and sons. If Medicade is taken away and we are forced to buy health insurance from a private corporation, (funny how that word keep popping up) and we have actually talked about moving to Canada. We have discussed this to death, and really feel like we are being forced into something we do now want. Do we stand idly by and just let this happen?
I think this issue may be the thing that sets off a series of events that the Corporation will not like. I have written my Governor to urge him to support Ohio seceding from the Corporation. America is not a Democracy, never was, it is a Republic.

America is a Constitutional Republic . . . NOT a Democracy

America: Republic or Democracy?

This bill is dead in the water as it is drafted right now. The legislature is gridlock at the moment. If any of you watched the President's forum on healthcare reform, it appears the Republican opposition refuses to even give an inch to the Democrats for support of this bill. The President looked frustrated throughout the whole thing, as the Republican threw wrench after wrench in the engine that has been dubbed "Obamacare."



In other words, as it stands, it is dead in the water. The President might as well be beating a dead horse. They ought to just scrap the bill altogether and start from scratch. He still has plenty of time to put something together, that is a little more tamed than what he has at the present. As it stands now, this idea of mandating healthcare is very close to installing tyranny under the veil of a humanitarian gesture. I am all for healthcare reform, but lets not take this down the road of two entitlement nightmares the government has on its books, in Social Security and Medicare. They are two systems that face insolvency in the next 30 years or so. Why not put some attention into staving off disaster in those programs?

Lets look at another crucial aspect of this issue, and that is the burden on the taxpayer in cost.

Depending upon which estimate one accepts, the Obama program is projected to cost between $1 trillion and $1.5 trillion during the first ten years of operation. That works out to an average annual cost of $100 billion to $150 billion, or somewhere between $274 million and $411 million a day.

article.nationalreview.com...

Those numbers alone should give anyone as much fear as they are having with the idea of mandating healthcare. That is not milk money, but a dollar amount equivalent to the Super Volcano of Yellow Stone erupting in a financial sense. All the "T's" being throwing around in current government spending and proposed is going to bring the country to its knees. How much can the backs of the American people take? The recent fiscal climate is on the scale of lunacy. Do these people have any concept of fiscal responsibility and thrift? This is not a partisan argument, but an argument of government fiscal policy in general. Both parties have been guilty of excessively inserting their paws into the pockets of the taxpayer.

Furthermore, about this mandate thing, I wouldn't worry about it much. It appears this bill is on life support and the tombstone is being crafted as I write. However, if the bill fails it will be brought back to life, as something different. To be fair, healthcare in this country is a disaster and quite expensive. Therefore, it must be dealt with, however, this thousand page bill is not the answer. The majority of the people are against it. Perhaps, back to the drawing board is in order?


[edit on 1-3-2010 by Jakes51]

reply to post by autowrench


"Star and Flag Erasurehead, good post and right on the money. am with you, and the others who will not bend over for the CORPORATION UNITED STATES. These minions have been screwing the American people for years now, wake up and smell the coffee, people!"

I will acknowledge that there are some people in government that are really trying to solve the issue of health but I think for the most part, health care is a red herring to raise taxes and force people to invest in corporate insurance companies.

What do we really have here? Why is it so important that people who work must provide the means to extend the lives of people who do not work? That is easy enough to answer, because if we don't, we are "bad" people. But what are we not being told?

Medical care is big business and insurance providers are even bigger but something is wrong when we do the math. People cannot afford medical care so they have to purchase insurance to pay for medical care. People who cannot afford insurance and cannot afford medical care are not turned away from the hospital. What is really being said by the proposed healthcare reform? I guess we have to look at how insurance works and how medical business works without it.

I am not an expert in these fields but I can guess that people who pay for insurance and do not use it supply the funds to pay for the ones that do use it. Do I have that part correct? On the one hand, people who do not pay their medical bills cause the health care providers to pass these debts on to the people who do pay. What happens when you throw in people who do not pay for the insurance but the funds from people who do pay are used to pay the medical bill?

If insurance is not a ponzi scheme, would it be reasonable to guess that insurance premiums are going to skyrocket once claims start coming in from people who pay no premium? Or would a far more clever approach be for the insurance company to place more treatments and medicines on the not covered list?

reply to post by Jakes51


For those of you that didn't believe it would happen, guess what?
It is now the law of the land that you must have health insurance or face fines and even jail.

If we stand for this then we allow the government make us do just about anything they want. God help us if the supreme court rules in favor if the federal government and declares the mandate legal.




[edit on 3/30/2010 by Erasurehead]

Originally posted by Erasurehead
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

I don't think I gambled with anyones tax money. If I did get seriously ill, I would have had to pay out of my pocket. It was my money I gambled with.

I can't see how anyone that loves freedom can support a mandate from the Federal government forcing us to to anything. I guess some people feel the need to be taken care of by big government. I prefer to make it on my own with my own choices.

Its really simple pay the fine if something bad happens go get insurance they cant deny you for preexisting conditions.When you feel better drop the insurance.Paying the fine will be cheaper in the long run and when it will cost you to much go get insurance.Obviously congress really didnt think about this at all did they.

reply to post by dragonridr


That is actually a good idea.
I am sure they will close that loop hole by making the fine more. Right now I believe the fine is $750 for an individual. If they make it say $3000 it wouldn't be worth it.

reply to post by Erasurehead


I am bring back this thread back now and ask the question again. What will you do when the federal government tries to force you to buy something you don't want?

This is not just about health insurance. It's about the fact that the federal government has now been given the green light to make you buy anything they feel is necessary.

Maybe the government will make everyone purchase a gym membership next or force people to buy fruits and vegetables instead of junk food. They have all the power in the world to do so according to the supreme court. We are nothing but pawns to be governed according to the commerce clause. What a joke.

This is anti-freedom, this is tyranny and I will not stand for the government forcing anything on me. I hope the rest of my fellow Americans wake up before it is too late. THEY DON'T OWN US !!!

Liberty...