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What will you do when the federal government forces you to buy health insurance?

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posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Alright, I'll call it "Neo-Capitalism" or "American Capitalism". Or, of course, "corporatism".

The bottom line is that the government is forcing us further into a system that doesn't care about increasing the standard of living for American citizens, only increasing it's profit margins so the execs can have a bigger house, more airplanes, more political influence... in other words, power. The economic world is a will to power and nothing more. Hence the pseudo socialist/capitalism bastardization that has been growing like an unchecked tumor in our nation since the 1930s. Using Keynes to promote Friedman, right?

I wonder how the peons over at "Organizing America" feel, after plastering this hogwash all over their website:


We are closer than ever to historic health insurance reform – reform that will extend coverage to more than 30 million Americans, provide security and stability to those who have health insurance, and shift power from insurance companies to consumers.


Benefits from Health Care Reform

Ah, to be so naive must be nice.

Then there is little nugget, skimmed over by most Democrats:


A memo obtained by the Huffington Post confirms that the White House and the pharmaceutical lobby secretly agreed to precisely the sort of wide-ranging deal that both parties have been denying over the past week.

The memo, which according to a knowledgeable health care lobbyist was prepared by a person directly involved in the negotiations, lists exactly what the White House gave up, and what it got in return.

It says the White House agreed to oppose any congressional efforts to use the government's leverage to bargain for lower drug prices or import drugs from Canada -- and also agreed not to pursue Medicare rebates or shift some drugs from Medicare Part B to Medicare Part D, which would cost Big Pharma billions in reduced reimbursements.


Internal Memo Confirms Big Giveaways In White House Deal With Big Pharma

I wouldn't be surprised if the Federal government gave America the old "one-two punch" in the healthcare rhetoric: Obama proposed a public option, knowing full well that it would shot down by the right, while his ploy all along was to pass this version of the bill to line his buddies' pockets under the auspices of bipartisanship.

EDIT: some additional info on Obama's political two-facery:


If a package passes Congress, the pharmaceutical industry has pledged $80 billion in cost savings over 10 years to help pay for it. For his part, Tauzin said he had not only received the White House pledge to forswear Medicare drug price bargaining, but also a separate promise not to pursue another proposal Obama supported during the campaign: importing cheaper drugs from Canada or Europe. Both proposals could cost the industry billions, undermine its ability to develop new cures and, in the case of imports, possibly compromise safety, industry officials contend.

Much of the bargaining took place in July at a meeting in the Roosevelt Room, just off the Oval Office, a person familiar with the discussions said. In attendance were Tauzin, several industry chief executives -- including those from Abbott Laboratories, Merck and Pfizer -- White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and White House aides.

White House officials acknowledge discussing the importation question with Tauzin but had no comment on whether there was an agreement to block future Medicare price negotiations.

Yet everyone agrees that drug companies -- Washington's leading source of lobbyist money -- now have "a seat at the table" at the White House and on Capitol Hill as healthcare legislation works its way through Congress. If nothing else, a popular president who six months ago criticized drug companies for greed now praises their work on behalf of the public good.


Obama gives powerful drug lobby a seat at healthcare table

The aforementioned Tauzin is Billy Tauzin, who Obama had criticized on his campaign trail for playing a role in "preventing Medicare from negotiating for lower drug prices."

Sourcewatch's article Barack Obama on Lobbyists reports:


Also, in May 2006, "two Washington lobbyists registered to work on behalf of Astellas Pharma, a Japanese-owned drug company which also has offices[10] in Illinois [to] 'Introduce legislation to temporarily suspend customs duties for the importation of a pharmaceutical ingredient,' they wrote on their lobbying forms. Less than three weeks later, the men had earned their $20,000 fee, thanks to Obama. On May 26, he introduced S. 3155[11], a bill specifically exempting Astellas' key ingredient from tariff payments. The bill cost the federal government more than $1 million in lost revenue, according to government estimates," Rood wrote.[6]


ABC News says:


A review of campaign finance records turned up no record of contributions from Nufarm to Obama. Astellas Pharma employees gave $1,100 to Obama's campaign in recent months, the documents show.


Change we can believe in!


[edit on 23-2-2010 by Someone336]



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by Erasurehead
 


Just because they say it doesn't mean it is gonna happen. Matter of fact, they said they would have it by now.

THEY DON'T HAVE 51 VOTES EVEN.

I take the bet on it being done with in 60 days (from today-I will give you the week since they said it-I'm that confident).



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 02:46 PM
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On my son's 18th birthday, I sat him down and told him that whatever happens from this point forward will be up to him. This world owes you nothing so any expectation that it will give you anything is a waste of expectation. In fact, you need to get your sh_t together and figure out what you want to do with your life because this world will chew you up and spit you out if you don't. So, the choice is yours and the results, good or bad, are yours and yours alone.

He went on, joined the Marines, spent 7mo. in Iraq, came back and got his degree in Communications.

So when some "do gooder" tries to suggest that somehow I should feel responsible for the outcome of someone else's life, I suggest to them that next time they should include me in the decision making process on the front end.



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 03:05 PM
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In my country if you don't have private health insurance and you need lets says, an operation on your heart or arteries (life saving), you could be waiting up to and over 10 months just for a bed. I don't understand all this "over my dead body" crap about health insurance - just don't cry if any of your family members die waiting on a list for a life saving operation.

But then again some people are in the hospital all their lives, some people are only their once, when they are born. The people that never go don't understand why people complain about the healthcare system so much, and vice versa.

It is a very sad situation when someone is rushed into ED and dies and then you find out they have been waiting on a bed list for over 6 months and they only needed to live for a week or 2 and they would of got that operation. Yet why should you pay over a thousand dollars a year if you never need to go in your life.

Wouldn't it be good if you could cut half of your taxes given to NASA / Defense and put it towards universal health care. Then your taxes would really be benefiting the tax payer and the wider community. Then there would be no need to argue over healthcare.



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by 1xion325alpha
 


People in America without insurance receive healthcare and in emergency situations as you described receive the needed care without waiting. I can speak from family experience. Not only that, but healthcare is provided in the same manner for the millions of illegal immigrants in our country. If long waits for treatment is what happens as a result of this legislation, then we are moving backwards.

[edit on 23-2-2010 by mrbarber]



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by Erasurehead
What will you do when the federal government forces you to buy health insurance?


I'm already buying it, so... I'll do nothing.

To me, it's no different than requiring us to buy auto insurance. Or homeowners insurance. If there was a way to guarantee that people would never use health care, then I can see your beef, but until there's a way to prevent a person from using the health care system, then requiring them to either buy it or pay a fee seems logical to me.



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 06:07 PM
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Can't be done. It's just propaganda. Bluff is 90% of the game. There will be abundant challenges before the feds can dictate and the states will have to go along. Hopefully, things will have resolved and the clock turned back before such a crisis comes about. But the answer for me is no way, I have no such obligation.



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 06:11 PM
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If this gets past and it becomes mandated, then I will take a stand, however how I do it, I would encourage everyone who disagrees with this law.
You can not support an immoral and illegale law by following it and thus it would require a mass act of civil disobedience. I would encourage all, after all of the court cases go through and then for everyone who does not have health insurance, turn themselves in, and demand that they follow the law, getting the media involved to pay attention, forcing the government to take action to either rectify the situation or change the law. Think about it do you think the justice system is capable of handling hundreds of thousands of people demanding that the law be carried out, and the ramifications of having to deal with a worse economic problems if the country shuts down?



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Erasurehead
What will you do when the federal government forces you to buy health insurance?


I'm already buying it, so... I'll do nothing.

To me, it's no different than requiring us to buy auto insurance. Or homeowners insurance. If there was a way to guarantee that people would never use health care, then I can see your beef, but until there's a way to prevent a person from using the health care system, then requiring them to either buy it or pay a fee seems logical to me.


I am also buying it already, but I will still do something because even though the law wouldn't effect me I think it sets a dangerous precedent to allow the federal government to force us to do something.

We are not ruled by a central power in Washington DC, like we are some servants to them. They have no right at all to make us do anything. That was never supposed to be what the Federal Government was about and its getting out of hand. I am against giving them more power over us.

It is very much different than requiring auto or home owners insurance. You can choose not to own a car or a home. I know many people that live in the city that rent and only use mass transit to get around. There is no choice when it comes to making people buy health insurance so I don't buy that argument.



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 10:21 PM
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The crux of the matter is that 31 million Americans are without health insurance, which means either you, a citizen, let him die without medical care, or you allow the govt to use its tax revenues to pay to the hospital, the high amounts to save his life, instead of insurance companies using their pooled resources.

Such tax revenues could have been used for better social spending such as education or building infrastructure, but will be depleted quickly if Americans irresponsibly refused to help support society by contributing to that pooled insurance fund.

It is good to tell one’s child that the world or US owes nothing to him, and whatever he wants, he needs to depend on his own intelligence and hard work to optimize opportunities offered and achieve in his life.

However, he and his parents do not live in a jungle. Who paid for the infrastructures of US? Who paid for the technological advances of a nation through funding and research? Who paid for safety and defense shields for everyone else? Bill Gates, one of the richest men in US, could pay for a few roads to drive his car around, but could he alone, even with all his wealth, pay for ALL roads and street lamps in US?

The answer is that society, made up of your family, relatives, friends and mine paid for it all through our direct or indirect taxes, our commitment to maintain social harmony and responsibilities so that the economy may thrive, for the good of all.

US do not owe the child anything, but certainly the child owes a social responsibility to his society, or any other society if he chose to uproot himself and pledge allegiance to it.

Everyone is hurting right now, and to ask for further money will be painful for many, especially to the 10% unemployed.

But to do nothing, will mean 31 million Americans be left on their own to pay for healing, and left to die if they have no money, for there may not be enough funds by the govt to pay full cash upfront to medical providers to save their lives.

Fight against the law for everyone to have health insurance if anyone wishes, but be aware of the consequences of such support and action to your fellow citizens. No man is an island in a civlised society.



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 



Fight against the law for everyone to have health insurance if anyone wishes, but be aware of the consequences of such support and action to your fellow citizens. No man is an island in a civlised society.


The solution is a tax payer funded pubic option (my apologies to the people who will yell about trampled freedoms but neglect to stop and consider how many tax payer funded public services they use daily), not a law forcing already financially struggling people to dish out more cash. A public option would practically pay for itself versus the monthly insurance bill. Heck, cut down on our completely out of control defense spending and stop giving abusive mega-corporations tax breaks (and, I dare say tax the rich a bit more), legalize drugs for taxation purposes, and boom! The payment aspect is pretty much solved. Forcing our money into this pig's greedy paws at gunpoint... not so aligned with any real leftist - or right winger's - ideals at the very least. This is a scam, clean and simple. Just another in a long train of scams this administration has been perpetuating... just like the administration before this one, and the one before that and the one before that and the one before that and the one before that...

Of course, I'm the kind of guy who loves the ideas of autonomous egalitarianism. Long live the collective (as long as it's basis is the individual)!

[edit on 23-2-2010 by Someone336]



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by Someone336
 


I fully agree with you that there exist selfish mega corporations and self serving politicians that seek to profit from other’s suffering. I also do agree that are many other forms of needless and unnecessary direct or indirect taxes that should be re-considered and even repealed.

However, that is another issue, and would need time and patience to unravel, to create awareness for more public support to fight them.

What is of vital importance now is health insurance. Many may feel they are compelled at ‘gun point’ to make such payments. However the truth is, when one is truly ill and without health insurance, lying in hospital, he will not be as brave as to give up his precious life, nor will others who love and care about him will willingly let him go.

Even minute, every second is precious to him, even if he is only a dishwasher, but a precious fellow citizen who had contributed honestly within his capability to society in other aspects. He may mean nothing to you, but his life means something, something precious to others. He doesn’t want to die, to not see another sunset, or breathe another breath of Earth’s air. But there is NO money to help him heal….

I have seen too many of such cases not to speak up for people like him. Today it may seem to be at gunpoint, but at the point of near death, health insurance will be a miracle, to him and those who love him.

Make it a choice and no one will pay for health insurance today, for who would come out with another buck in these tough times? But NOT to make it compulsory, will mean unnecessary heartless denial of medical care to those who needs it….

Do consider again. It is not for fun or frivolity that some people put their career and lives on the line to ensure everyone, black or white, young or old, gets healthcare, from the rich to the poorest…..




[edit on 23-2-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 11:10 PM
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In asking many peaple (friends) what they think about this issue, the ones with no money and or low wages are for it. My friends with money are against it. What does that say.
I say if you own nothing and ask for nothing and are retired not accepting social security or having to pay taxes anymore. How are they going to get you for the yearly fee. Make friends who are doctors! Barter service or pay cash. If you get really sick go to Mexico at this point. Future events will bring options Americans are use to finding ways around doing what they do not want to do.



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 11:28 PM
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The problem with this plan is that even the lowest wage earners will be required by that same law to have insurance regardless that they can't even live off their wages as is...and they will be fined just the same, and probably will recieve crap care for teh money they're shelling out, and they'll be homeless, because they have to file just like every other working american.



posted on Feb, 23 2010 @ 11:32 PM
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What will I do when I'm forced to have something I already have?

I'll yawn.



posted on Feb, 24 2010 @ 12:33 AM
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This health care bill is just like global warming a pure scam on the poor working people of America. The poor working people will pay for all the illegal aliens health care in this country estimated at 40 plus million and growing. (My guess 54 million). the poor working people ,They will pay for all the abortions in this country when they can barely servive as it is, working minuim wage jobs . Call 1000 rich people and quess who answers the phone a person that can't even pronouce their owners name in english. An illegal alien here taking food from your baby's mouths and from your pocket and from your mouth too. Wake up America this bill ain't for you , nomatter what the brain washed people will say to you. Nothing forced on you is of any real value. Wake up!



posted on Feb, 24 2010 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


Then you will get jammed up. They will just hammer you on your income taxes, they will deny you services like getting your kid into a school, getting a drivers lisence, a building permit, anything you need the government for they will want that information.

I hope you can successfully resist, but I will bring the full force of the government, local, state and federal down on you and wear you out. You have a life and can't spend it fighting or playing games with the government. If you do, they win in a different way.



posted on Feb, 24 2010 @ 12:57 AM
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The goverment is a bag of useless wind against the american people. The goverment has had since 1845 aprox. to prepare for winter. They ca'nt even keep the snow off their streets. Wake up , without the american people the goverment is as I said ,a useless bag of Wind . Wake up America !!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Feb, 24 2010 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity
The problem with this plan is that even the lowest wage earners will be required by that same law to have insurance regardless that they can't even live off their wages as is...and they will be fined just the same, and probably will recieve crap care for teh money they're shelling out, and they'll be homeless, because they have to file just like every other working american.


Yours is a genuine concern many citizens are facing, which is the lack of money or shortage of it to meet even daily needs.

The big boys of Corporation often justified their actions as playing amongst only the rich and would hardly concern the small guys like us. But unfortunately the reverse is true.

Many of our brightest minds are suckered into working in Casinos called Wall Street and stock exchanges instead of helping build up manufacturing and services, where real money is created, and leading the economy when they gain experience.

The rich believed in the superiority of financial instruments also known as gambling chips but respectably called ‘stocks and assets’ to hide the hideousness of greed.

They gambled on it instead of using their funds for manufacturing, research or creating services. They ease their guilt by donating a few miserable dollars and call it ‘charity’, which often is not enough for the numerous needy cases in the country.

Instead of paying more from profits to workers, Companies prefer to kick out locals and use cheap foreign illegals and labor, saving costs to play further in casinos. And to cap insult to injury, they make the taxpayers whom they had sacked pay for these illegals social needs.

End result is you, struggling to make ends meet. It is a sad state, of which every one of us must make use of existing political infrastructure to end such mistakes, greed and suffering, and kick butt on elected representatives whom are keener in posturing and bickering, getting kickbacks, and tarnishing those who sincerely wants to help the masses.

But more important is you, a member of society, for without you, there will be no society at all. Right now if you can’t even afford low insurance payments, I doubt if you can even afford to see a doctor if you fall sick, let alone heal diseases or problems later.

It is how you can be helped right now to help later when you have a bit more spending money to contribute to society’s health insurance funds for your medical care, should you need it one day and not be frightened by a bill you must pay from your pocket upfront.

This isn’t exactly the best of times to find a better paying job, for many companies are still in the process of recovery, standing back on their feet and correcting errors. One way now is to talk to your elected officials on how they can work out a schedule of fees for those who are unemployed to find employment and then start off with lower insurance rates.

Another is to check around with relatives and friends for contacts on better paying job opportunities. Or try to think of creating jobs by looking around at others who may have needs which are not met and will pay to have those needs met.

The point is that financial planning is a must. And health insurance is one nobody should screw around with, for it is about life. Good times do not last, so too hard times. It will be sickening if you were enjoying a good time – fell in love, had kids, had some semblance of financial stability that you can see a future but sickness came, but then you have not enough money to get you healed…..



posted on Feb, 24 2010 @ 02:31 AM
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You guys should emigrate to the Netherlands, that is called the worst system ever with the government forcing everyone to buy this and that..... this is nothing compared to NL!

[edit on 24-2-2010 by yiersan]



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