Getting Rid of Hispanics

I was always the type to check a difference race anyhow. It shouldn't matter.

I love taking statistics for a spin. It's fun, you should try it.

reply to post by Grumble


I am sure to come under fire for this, but i believe each community should fund its own public schools. Even if it is "privatized".

Of course, there should be federal and state subsidies to schools. But the community that feeds the school should fund the school.

What is happening in Indiana is crap. They did something similar in Texas. Schools here in West Texas, with oil rich land, lost literally millions (Iraan-Sheffield ISD, in particular) Many smaller schools that owned houses and other property to boost revenue and provide additional incentives to attract teachers to their rural location had to divest themselves of some of this property to lower their districts value and keep from losing funding.

In some schools, if it weren't for two or three familes having multimillion dollar farming operations, there would not be enough money for the schools to even exist.

This is where the West Texas football player comes from: either the cotton field, or the oilfield.

Originally posted by Grumble
jdub, are you aware that the state of Indiana has changed its school funding so that the urban schools will be given a great advantage over the suburban schools? This was all part of the property tax reform and was, in essence, a payoff to certain constituencies to get the thing passed.

The best public schools in Indiana will be destroyed within three years.

The suburban schools filed suit against the State of Indiana on February 23, 2010.

Texas schools went through this 20 years ago in what we called "equalization."

Poor schools got money. Nobody was happy.

jw

Probably just a poor review and editting job by someone in the school system. We got one of those forms home at the beginning of the school year from my daughter's school and it had "Hispanic" on it. Some poor, overworked schmuck of an employee got told at 4:30 on a Friday to draft the form and they had a brain fart.

reply to post by LibertyLover


You could be right. It might be an oversight, and I hope it is.

You don't take a "black roll," then a "white roll," and so on, do you?

Actually, yes they do. We don't do it as "roll call" per say, but on each student chart is their race and gender. The government requires this information.

Do you REALLY beleive that it costs more to teach a 3rd grade division is she is brown or black? Or cheaper is she's yellow or white? Your district is paternalistic, discriminatory, sick and pathetic. They should be sued in State and Federal court! (Texas teachers did this 20 years ago. It resulted in increased funding for ALL schools!)

Actually, all students learn differently. You could read more about this if you google multiple learning styles or multiple intelligence theory. We do NOT all learn in the same way, although this seems to be an individual thing and not a racial/ethnic/cultural thing at all.

Having said that, some students are more difficult to teach simply because of their backgrounds. By this I mean their home enviornment. Granted, socio-economics play a major part in this, but its not the only determinng factor. For example, take a third grade student who's got a strong family connection, had lots of different life experiences (trips to the beach, etc). This child will be better able to make connections in the classroom. When we read a story about the ocean, he will be able to remember his trip....and that's a connection. Whereas a child who has never seen the ocean will need to have that background knowledge first, and this is provided by the teachers beforehand.
Another example. I live in a very rural area, lots of poverty. We were reading a story with the sentence, "John took the subway to the Market Street and caught the 4:10 bus." Without exception, my students thought subway was a sandwich...which led into a wonderful lesson about the subway system and some great projects by the students.
Students are different. They don't learn the same, they don't all have the same capacity to learn, they don't all have the same support system at home, and they don't all have the intrinsic motivation to learn. By blithely stating that "all students are equal" regardless of differences is irresponsible.
And no, I don't believe a black student is more difficult to teach than a white student, simply because of race. Every child is unique, every child has strengths and weaknesses, and this is not determined by race or ethnicity.
So why does the government require that schools keep statistics concerning the breakdown of student achievement by race/gender/economics? To see if there is a "gap" in a certain area, and if so, how to address it. For example, my school's "poor" students (for lack of a better word) tend to fall behind the others in achievment scores. So our school has special programs aimed to help those students "catch up" (again, for lack of a better word.) Headstart is just one of thes programs; its a government run program and is aimed at reducing the deficit low-income children start school with.
In the 50s and 60s, blacks did not receive an equal education in many schools because of segregation. I imagine the government is keeping an eye on these subgroups to make sure all children are being taught, but I can't speak for the government. I just know it is a requirement that our schools have this information.

Are you unionized? Is THAT "the government?" No. The government is the law-making entity that pays for the schools, and pays for the teachers.


If you cannot see the injustice, then you are part of the problem. Get help. For the sake of your "poor, backward, typical Mexican" students.

At no point did I say a thing about "poor, backward, typical Mexican" students. I stated that the hispanic population IN MY SCHOOL tended to be non-English speaking or migratory population. If you can't see how that is different, then I can't help you. If you also can't see why these students would have a more difficult time in the school system, then I can't help you. But nice attempt to villify my concerns, by the way.

Do you not see the problem? Maybe you could get a different job, where you wouldn't have to meet with "disadvantaged" or "slow" people. Try Wal-Mart; they're hiring.

Oh, give it a rest already. It's because I care that I have this job. It's because I care that I made this thread. It's because the teachers at my school care that we've been concerned about this. At no point does this affect my personal pay. But programs aimed at helping the minority students may be cut due to this, and that concerns me. If you can't understand why, then again I can't help you.

As for feeling emotional, again, you are right. I see this as just another blow to public education, and heaven knows its already bad enough.


Aren't all students in NC entitled to the SAME education?

YES! Which is why this concerns me. By cutting funding, who will be hurt? THE STUDENTS!

I just won't abide certain behavior. You SHOULD apologize to your students. You should speak up and do something.

And just what should I apologize for? Are you an educator? Do you have any idea what the job entails, the sacrifices it takes, and the sheer frustration involved when someone less than informed on the issues at hand makes blanket statements as the ones made above? I do it because I love working with the children, and I'm good at my job.

As for speaking up and doing something, we are. That is what the Union does, and it is looking into matters.

Of couse, speaking up on ATS sure helped a lot, didnt it?

Sorry. But you asked.

I did.

reply to post by jdub297

Smylee...even though what he says lacks tact and diplomacy, take the core message to heart. It is the teachers jobs to make sure the student is prepared. Obstacles are meant to be gone around.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Agreed..... and the teachers I know and work with do this every day.

But those obstacles are big....and hamstringing the teachers doesn't help any.

I also just realized I may have given a false impression about the funding, my fault. When I said that government funding is determined by the performance in a subgroup, I meant SUPPLEMENTAL funding. Reading back through this thread, I realize I never stated supplemental funding.

Supplemental funding is aimed specifically at a group of students who need extra support, for whatever reason. Right now our schools determine subgroups by race/ethnicity and socio-economics.

We are 4 pages into a thread that is basically the OP trying to justify discrimination

reply to post by jdub297


How is making sure that our children are equally taught discrimination? How is making sure that an entire subgroup of children don't get "left behind" discrimination? You still don't understand the point of this thread.

I do not care if my students are white, brown, black, hispanic, or polka dotted. I DO care that they all have equal opportunities, equal access to education. In some cases, certain students need additional help just to "catch up" to the average in their grade level.

By the way, I never once said Mexican. That was your assumption, and in this case an ignorant one.

The majority of Hispanics in my school are from Honduras and Guatemala.

reply to post by smyleegrl


The question in and of itself is racist. Asking the question assumes that a specific ethnic group has more difficulty learning. Academic performance calculated by standardized test scores is a better way to assess whether a school district needs additional assistance, not the race of the children in the school.

I don't doubt that there are cultural issues within groups that impact the academic performance of kids. Working to address cultural issues via school funding is not an appropriate remedy. The federal government should not be in the business of engaging at the state level with respect to education.

How do you reconcile the fact that the places where they spend the most per student, such as NYC and DC have some of the worst performance? Clearly, school funding has no relationship on academic performance. Those same kids who do poorly in public schools often shine when in a charter school or private school.

This problem should be solved outside of the education system. If solving it means more drastic actions with respect to family unity (e.g. taking kids out of dysfunctional home environments), so be it. It absolutely should be the ability to kick kids out of school who disrupt the learning of other students.

Allocating funding based on race assumes poor performance based on race and that is racist. It can't be defined in any other way.

Why should a school district in rural West Virginia that is 100% white receive more funding from the federal government than an urban city which is 100% black?

I don't know, but do schools who have a significant number of Asians receive the same incremental increase in funding as those schools which have the same percentage of other races? Asian's are among the best students in the country and the highest per capita receivers of scholarships in the country. They also have, in many cases a more significant language barrier, coming from a culture with a completely different alphabet than do "hispanics". If a school has a 50% Korean and Chinese population receive the same level of funding? Again, I don't know.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Very well stated, I understand your point that dividing the students into subgroups based on race/ethnicity is racist.

It's not the school's choice, but required by the government.

With regards to the funding, since starting this thread I've been actively researching funding and educational gains. I do find it interesting that there doesn't seem to be a direct correlation between funding and achievement conclusively established. But I've just started looking more heavily into this, so I have a lot more research to do.

As to how the government assigns funds, again that is not something my school has much say in. The rules are what they are, and I can certainly understand how they can be construed as racist.

As for standardized testing, in my opinion far too much emphasis is placed on it. I could go on and on, but since that really isn't the point of the thread I won't subject anyone to that.

The reason I started this thread was out of concern that the government was seeking to eliminate one of the minorities while keeping the other minorities label in place. If all labels are gone, fine and dandy. But to only remove one set of labels and not all does an injustice to our children. Why should we only look at how "black" "white" "male" "female" or "poor" students perform? Do the hispanics not count? That is the crux of my concern. I want to make sure they aren't simply swept under the rug or forgotten about.

Obviously this thread has touched a nerve with a lot of people, and I really hate that. I think in part its because I'm not doing a great job of explaining myself, and I take responsibility for that. But I do appreciate your response and I really appreciate the respectful way in which you phrased it. Makes it much more likely that someone will actually read and understand what you have to say.

Hispanics aren't ethnically different than Whites, they ARE White people. As everyone knows they originate from Spain, a European country. There is always slight differences within a race, compare a Swede a Brit and a Spaniard and you will see some differences, but they are all White people. America is the only place that draws this imaginary line.

I'm still waiting for them to put JAPANIC

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

"Hispanic" is not a race. It is a nationality. There are really only 4 generally accepted "races" of human. Some people consider it an "ethnicity," but we are all "ethnic" to some degree.

Don't they teach sociology in your school, or were you just not paying attention?

Second, the US Census Bureau does not rely on schools for the census. Yours must be a school district product.

Deny ignorance.

jw

[edit on 23-2-2010 by jdub297]

Hispanic is not a nationality, there is no country of Hispania anymore. Therefore Hispanic and latin is just a made up word created by the US to identify spanish speakers...

If you're really Hispanic then ur from the Ancient Iberian Peninsula.

I would put bi-racial, because most "hispanics" are the combination of two or more races

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Goradd]

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Mods, I'm not sure if this belongs here or in the Education forum, please move if its in the wrong place.

As those of you in the US know, this year is the census year. I don't know if its part of the census process, but our school recently sent home a form for parents to fill out.

On the form:
African-American
White
Pacific Islander
Asian
Bi-Racial
American Indian


BUT NOT HISPANIC!

There are a lot of hispanic families in my school, and many who are extremely upset about this. Which got me to thinking. Why leave out the hispanic population?

Could it be that the government realizes the hispanic population is approaching the size of the African-American population, and therefore might become the new major minority (I know that's an oxymoron).

If the hispanics are the largest minority, would this take away funds from the African American minority? I don't know much about this, so I thought I'd ask my friends at ATS.

Perhaps I'm over reacting, but this seems wrong to me. Can someone help explain it?

I just found a census form online and they do ask this question #8.
Go here: 2010.census.gov...

hispanics are bi racial or sometimes white... so you can choose beetween the two.. anyway the census is racist.. is asking about your race...

hispanics cannot deny they are bi racial.. being from to two races...

Are we all Americans? that seems to be a problem in our country we seem to forget that America was built as a melting pot for everyone and not a group of different people.

Until we all forget about color or orgin or which part of the world we come from we are all seperated by them and divided. This country is for Americans not white americans or black americans or asian americans or hispanic americans just AMERICANS.

Let us be Americans. Does this mean we cannot celebrate our heritage? No of course not quite the opposite. Be proud of where you come from but more importantly let us be proud of where we are today as Americans.

If we continue to divide ourselves into different groups that is exactly what we will always be different groups.

To me it is not important what color or where someone comes from in a census but how many Americans there are and what ages we are.

Thats what we should be asking in the census but instead we spend too much money and time on what groups we belong too when we need to be one group.

As long as we divide ourselves we will never be what we can be nor what the founders of this country intended us to be...AMERICANS!

[edit on 2/25/2010 by DJMSN]

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

"Hispanic" is not a race. It is a nationality.


[edit on 23-2-2010 by jdub297]

mongoloid, caucazoid, negaroid, yada yada sis bum bada
ya know this 'his panic' probably originates from the spanish rape
of the pueblo indian women resulting in the local 'his spanish' children
but those are the darker variety hispanics

around here the 'hispanics' 'spanish' descendants are pretty white
although they will tell you they don't fit in with the 'european white or the native'

When I spoke to a Census taker, I found that Hispanic was listed as an origin, not a race, giving it more, special attention over all other races. Seems to me they are trying to count Hispanics as a separate category from the rest of us. Both the census taker and I thought it sounded politically-motivated, as though they are trying to see what areas they need to campaigning in maybe, to garner the Hispanic vote. With all the pushing for amnesty for illegals, I seriously doubt that eliminating that classification was the goal.

reply to post by DJMSN


Could not agree with you more. That is why every member of my household is listed as American for race.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by LadyGreenEyes]