In An Infinite Universe...

reply to post by Dynamitrios


I say it to illustrate the point of infinite possibilities, especially in a metaphysical sense.

It's a paradigm in that the possiblity of the existence of a creator is true, whilst the opposite may also be true.

It's an abstraction, and as such is not meant to be literal exceopt in the loosest sense of the word.

reply to post by dzonatas

Or, in the sense that you have only realized and allow, that the universe is your brain.

The perception of the universe is created by your brain, yes. Your brain, however, still exists in an objective reality, and your perceptions are merely useful representations of that reality so as to allow for navigation, communication, and interaction necessary to promote continued survival. We create concepts such as solidity, despite the evidence which tells us that rocks and metal and trees and ourselves are all almost entirely composed of empty space. So why do we see things as rocks as solid rather than they really are? Because despite all that empty space, a rock thrown at your head will transfer kinetic energy when it impacts rather than flowing harmlessly through. In that case, the illusion of solidity is a beneficial to have when avoiding obstacles.

Richard Dawkins once suggested that bats may see their echolocation sound waves change in frequency as it bounces back in a similar fashion to how we see color by gauging the various wavelengths of light in a band of the EM spectrum.

Again... the universe is not infinite or capable of infinite possibilities. It is finite, and it's existence is at any given moment is an expression of a single finite possibility resulting as the causal outcome of prior interactions. What is infinite, however, is human ignorance... And as such we can dream up practically infinite possible scenarios which may or may not be manifest in reality.

If you were trying to make the point that accepting subjective reality trumps objective reality in regards to useful application or that it is the only applicable option as a philosophical axiom, then I don't feel the need to respond. After all, if reality is all subjective taking place inside my mind without having an objective reality beyond my perceptions, which shapes my perceptions at least in part, and cannot be verified objectively across multiple perceptions... well, then your reply is just a figment of my imagination. It's of no more consequence than the writing this post. Both would merely be me just talking to myself. Wouldn't then all of ATS forums merely be elaborate and (often it seems, masochistic) introspection?

In any case, if you're suggesting I don't know what I'm talking about - then I see no reason to read the reply to this post since evidently I will write the replies and they will be pointless since I don't know what I'm talking about.

[edit on 23-2-2010 by Lasheic]

reply to post by Lasheic


How do you know the universe is not infinite?

Is it not just an abstract concept to say that the universe is finite?

Is it not also true that there are many things way beyond our very limited understanding?

We can't even describe or account for over 90% of it, as we know it (or as we're told we know it)

To say that the universe is definitely finite is to say that you understand the whole of the universe and its nature, and sorry, but I just don't buy that.

no, science already proved that our universe is not infinite

so, I wont try to discuss something that useful LOL

sorry: I just had to say, I didnt know if u guys knew

[edit on 23-2-2010 by Faiol]

reply to post by Faiol


I know what science says, and obviously they have all the answers

Oh, wait - they changed their mind again?

As this is a metaphysical thread, I would have thought we could step beyond the mundanity of scientific "certainties" (which are nothing of the sort) and discuss the possibilites inherent in an infinite universe, which for all we know is what our universe really is, science notwithstanding...

reply to post by budski


universe is not a truth so you cant talk about it as if it is the source of anything to assert that infinite possibilities are the nature of source called truth

and you proove it by adding the concept of god to universe infinite possibilities as if you need a symbolic justification of source quality to that universe

truth has no character of infinity, truth is itself certainty always and that fact always is the infinite element only

truth is of two fundaments concepts, form and substance,
when the form is for the substance and the substance is for the form while being different concept, that what led to one truth always that nothing can be else since it is of total void so there cant be another truth

the form is the concept of certainty
the substance is the concept of positive always

what came first in void is the concept of certainty
and then the concept of positive always, what is definitely certainty is in depth then fundamentally positive that cannot be not existing

these concepts certainty and positive are the sources of what we call commonly existence and life

void became itself abstractions base of certainty concept, meaning always superiority existence freedom of nothing, it becomes self aware then free existing entity as certainty base concepts progress in superior justifications of freedom out of nothing

this happened in void itself there is no gods there it is geniun truth

then truth was existing at a point certain in void itself nothing and not its awareness freedom

confirming the character of free certainty but for another concept, its depth the love of positive evolutions, from free certainty truth essence being in move and not static as the whole awareness itself, so the depth was more true itself one to know itself truth

and that is how truth was formed in void, the form as self awareness of void appear first as self freedom existance as awareness certainty superiority of freedom abstractions positive truth
but the certain free out of it was confirmed also in void existing itself as truth of certainty freedom superiority being positive truth as absolute drive freedom for superiority absolute existance

it is truth it is not the same one it is really of void reality that is how it is a whole form awareness and then out of that whole just one point depth of its truth

and both dont did anything truth did it all they are just self aware of themselves drives about truth reality life

and that is how the sense of awareness became to know the truth that is absolutely source of absolute reality life in void freely

and creations of universe was that knowledge through awareness of it drives gathering infos from both sides as one truth to be each one true itself alone free existance life as everyone awareness too

the free certain move true mean always absolute existance reality
and the free conscious certainty inerty mean always its absolute certainty possible move

so whole void certainty awereness mean nothing positive base so it knows when it is under nothing as negative to reject while always progressing in superiority abstractions of certainty meaning it absolutely, that is why nothing is positive always as a number zero because aware of truth and always for as from

and the point certain free move true mean positive always truth evolutions so it is definitely existing above zero and cant be nothing while doing its absolute existing character real absolutely of its absolute limited but true geniun identity as self source for positive always more

truth is what says that abstraction of awareness freedom space is the existing certainty that can define its own existance fact by relating itself then to its positive absolute end, the positive absolutely is the end not the self end
while from the substance perspective truth is what say a reality is living objectively when it is related to its absolute superior free existing certainty as self reality living

so you see infinite is not that hard to say its sources when you are honest for no need to create nonsense confusions to enjoy any complexity of means translations of when there is no complexity at all

reply to post by imans


I don't know why people keep focussing on god - it was one example of many I could have used, but I chose that one because it is arguably the easiest to understand.

The rest of your post makes no sense to me I'm afraid, because the language is too cluttered and at times out of context.

This is not to have a dig - would I be right in saying that english is not your first language?

If the word "God" is going to be in the discussion (I saw it mentioned earlier), I would point out that my definition is that it is not a separate entity, but is The Totality (which would include us human beings and everything else). If we live on branes, "God" would include all the branes and the "bulk" and all contents therein.

reply to post by switching yard


All I did was attempt to discuss the possibility of a creator, I also mentioned an "anti-creator" in such a way that added to what could be thought of an infinite universe with infinite possibilities.

What is this god fixation about?

There was much more in the OP than that half a sentence to discuss.

truth is that geniun equation out of nothing that assert existance evolutions moves always because of that one possible absolute match reality between form and substance superiority certainty application

in general chaos perspective forms and substance are always opposites because others only truth allow the life of both when sbustance and form is one true fact certain reality

if you consider forms alone, that what you seem coming from, the drive to realize infinite different forms realities, would then generate in forms realisations that drive too, if one of those drives forms cannot generate any form then the first one drive dont exist and die since it cant be supported by its essence of existing as drive for forms realisations is an absolute source of existance

if you consider substance alone, the drive to act as a source always alone for itself creation as existing, at a certain point itself become a certainty existing fact and you cannot justify creating anything more, so you die when your life was based on the drive justification that you can always be your source new superior reality

which proove how forms and substance didnt exist or move by themselves alone it is all of truth reality life
and that is how a true form drive assert that his drive is exclusively of its reality with truth existance life, so its awareness is principally the awareness of truth abstractions of certainty defining definitive principles existance in void as always superior facts realities complexities, and not that the drive is to individual abilities creations of realities forms lives even if it could seen as pleasurable reward of existing fact when it is possible in truth facts definitions of life realisations and directly related to its own drive as true when those life definitions creations mean its absolute reality life freedom of its free certainty the most true existance

the same logic apply to true substance drive, confirming that the primar drive move was meaning truth and not itself, even that it realized how through truth positive absolute freedom always evolutions it could move to its free superior reality to proove it absolutely alive but always in truth definitions of life realities and never meaning to create it by itself when truth is the source of that self from that self drive to it and not to that issue by itself

reply to post by budski


the fact that you disagree fundamentally with me cannot constitute a reason to invent a justification for rejecting my words quality in being clear

you said it yourself that my post is out of context from your own perspective so the means were clearly detected in its whole reality and it is not some grammar forms errors that mislead the reading of its substance means

besides the fact that when you open a thread about infinity then you should only mean logics language faculties and never any limited language of finite realities

and no you said nothing in your post that could be related to the concept or notion of infinity not even universe itself

reply to post by budski

How do you know the universe is not infinite?

Because infinite possibilities can only exist in superpositions wherein there are no existing possibilities. Once a possibility exists, it becomes finite. The universe currently exists, therefore it's properties are ultimately finite in the expression of a current single reality. Even multiverses can't escape this, since multiple possibilities don't manifest in a singular universe. Hit a Billiards Ball and it doesn't shift into two individual expressions of the same energy gradient in the same universe - one missing the shot, and one sinking. Rather they'd apparently necessitate the creation of an entirely new universe to express the possibilities which didn't manifest in this one finite universe.

Intriguing idea, but it seems overly wasteful to me.

Is it not also true that there are many things way beyond our very limited understanding?

I never implied otherwise. However, if there is existing phenomena out there that we are capable of observing and measuring - no matter how counter-intuitive to established understanding - the expression of that phenomena is still a finite singular expression of a finite universe. Ignorance of a phenomena doesn't phase it out of existence, just as speculating a phenomena exists does not make it so. This is why evidence is so important in science, because it's far faster to try to get at the singular objective reality which DOES exist - rather than just speculating flights of fancy. Evidence is used to falsify incorrect ideas or modify existing ideas provided the modifications themselves don't conflict.

Since Science can only work by falsification, so it can never make absolute assertions. Everything in science is a matter of probability of being correct. The probability is roughly established by how well an idea selected and formulated out of practically infinite human ignorance is supported by the evidence of the singular expression of a finite universe to explain an observation in it.

I know what science says, and obviously they have all the answers

Science is a methodology. Which means it's only useful when it's working, and it's only working when it's trying to answer questions. If science had all the answers, it'd stop working. You put away your screwdriver when you've set all the screws in your project, or put away your hammer after the nails are in, don't you?

reply to post by Lasheic


what i noticed from minds expressions is that they lack the conception of source, it maybe because of gods realities as being the creators of living forms

but for any honest thinker, it is easy to realize how anything exist according to its superior reality that exist, and that superior reality also is directly related to its superior reality fact existing and from there the notion of source as a concept is clarified being necessarly one truth source of absolute realities definitions

when you witness something existing objectively that you know didnt realize you immediately know that there is a source that realized it

it means that there is kind of unknown living entity that realize something beyond itself realisations

the point is to understand why the concept of a source is also from the conception of positive notion, therefore what is powerful living is not necessarly a source quality

what makes the concept of source living, is the fact that it is beyond itself still positive moving, any reality living is always only itself as living nothing else can be also separately living from, or existing even, a living cannot create anything before creating itself absolutely positive living first

it is the concept of all or nothing but the thing itself which is nothing objectively

this is what proove the existance of truth being only one possibility source living

what is first source of itself reality life absolutely cannot be two entities, because the particularity of that living is not what is making it being its source, how to be a source of itself absolute life reality cannot be two different ways, and it is impossible to be a source before being existing living absolutely then self doing it

Originally posted by Lasheic
In any case, if you're suggesting I don't know what I'm talking about - then I see no reason to read the reply to this post since evidently I will write the replies and they will be pointless since I don't know what I'm talking about.

I just try to die naturally, yet it is quotes like these that create an excuse for me to take another byte.

reply to post by dzonatas


metaphysics is interesting by itself and cannot mean somethings nor ever someones

truth as i summarize it till now, is the love to superiority but more love superiority as a square life results abstractions absolutely

because love is necessary a form of superiority that is absolutely superior to superiority itself, since like i said love is considerations free self energy drives, if it is to superiority then it is above it considering it always

but superiority is more clearly superiority u know? meaning always also above
so the square of truth is where they are keeping getting above each others in a place making a square they are all happy about becoming reality alive

sorry for insisting on my thoughts here where the op mean something else, but it is good to listen to another opinion that can be true too

noone seem to visualize that positive truth is then exponential of superiority realities

unfortunately i noticed how everyone thinks that when something is absolutely positive then it looses all its evolutions possibilities, it is totally false presumptions, on the contrary it is the start

Sorry, but I can't uunderstand a thing you are saying.

It makes NO sense.

No insult intended.

love is itself life

that is the truth as free awareness of itself life being loving superiority

so truth is like a zombie out of nothing certainty that love itself as superiority life and we have all to deal with that fact to understand anything we are and are forced to appreciate relatively

there is nothing we can do to stop that no gods nothing can do anything

anything anywhere they tried all not only the space reality of their own lives is managed of that truth sources exclusively but more truth itself step inn to surprise and assert its only reality existing