CERN on trial: could a lawsuit shut the LHC down?

Originally posted by GeneralRipper
I don't have a degree in quantum-physics, so I'm not in a position to debate wether the LHC is safe or not.

However I saw this documentary yesterday on National Geographic and a scientist tried to explain what it does. I found it on youtube, starts at 8:20

So basically you're smashing an atom, and maybe you'll learn something about it in the process. That seems like a dangerous way of investigating things. You don't break something just to find out what's inside. We don't tear apart the piramids just to find those hidden chambers, do we? You might say "a piramid isn't the same as an atom". You're right, the piramids can't explode or anything if you smash it. Atoms on the other hand...

There has to be a way to examine these particles without smashing them to pieces. Maybe if we spent all the money of the LHC on researching alternative methods, we would have found it by now.

Unfortunately atoms are not put together with bolts.

-rrr

All I can say is that that thing sure looks like it could create Black Holes. It's an astounding looking piece of machinery.

Okay, it's time to do my part to try and dispel some of choice ignorance that can be found here on ATS:

Originally posted by peri26
1.) The more research you do on CERN specifically, (for example for all you conspiracy people out there, did you know that the CERN logo actually has "666" in it?), with all of the many many glitches and problems and 'bird droppings', the more uncomfortable you tend to become about the proficiency level.

Squirrels and birds get fried in high voltage lines all over the world. Junction of superconducting magnets is a hard thing to design and it's the first attempt to create such a system ever, so glitches can well be expected. Hey, do you find 666 in the Toyota logo? Is it unnerving to you that their gas pedal get stuck? Do you also think it's devil's handywork?

2.) The argument that we are dealing with such small quantities and for such a brief time seems pretty lame when you consider that a relatively small clump of uranium 239 is needed for catastrophic results, and basically the smaller we've gone into the atomic structure of things the more powerful forces we find there.

What "clump"? What "results"? Seriously, unless you get more specific, this all sounds silly and inane.

3.) CERN is basically one humungous, gigantic, incredibly powerful magnet

In case you missed it, CERN is an organization. It's not a magnet. It's a research institute that occupies a patch of land on the border of France and Switzerland. They have pretty decent coffee in cafeteria there.

by far and away the most powerful magnet that mankind has ever built. Aside from the fact that the Earth supposedly has a huge iron ball at it's core that we really don't want to start wobbling around for any reason,

A number of BS points in the preceding paragraph... Magnets of the LHC aren't the most powerful magnets ever built... They are indeed produced on a massive scale (number-wise) which was never attempted before. LHC does not have a single magnet but lots of them... And the magnetic field is CONTAINED inside these magnets, w/o much leaking out.

Okay, enough of my ranting for now

Thank you.

Originally posted by Kratos40
I am no physicist, but what concerns me is that the LHC will re-create tremendous particle collisions not created since the Big Bang.

This is a false statement. Collisions of much higher energy do happen, when cosmic rays of huge energy arrive to Earth. LHC is needed because we need controlled conditions to do a proper experiment, even if we get less energy in the process.

Just to make an observation, project Castle Bravo ended up unexpectedly giving off more energy and radiation than what the physicists calculated

This is about as irrelevant as it gets.

Worst case scenarios for LHC:

Solenoid breaks down due to overheating causing $1 billion in damage.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Kratos40
I am no physicist, but what concerns me is that the LHC will re-create tremendous particle collisions not created since the Big Bang.

This is a false statement. Collisions of much higher energy do happen, when cosmic rays of huge energy arrive to Earth. LHC is needed because we need controlled conditions to do a proper experiment, even if we get less energy in the process.

Just to make an observation, project Castle Bravo ended up unexpectedly giving off more energy and radiation than what the physicists calculated

This is about as irrelevant as it gets.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Kratos40]

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Kratos40]

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Kratos40]

reply to post by buddhasystem



Well of course! Silly me for my irrelevant thoughts. So why is it that they have detectors that can pick up this stuff?:

ALICE - will study a "liquid" form of matter called quark–gluon plasma that existed shortly after the Big Bang.

LHCb - equal amounts of matter and antimatter were created in the Big Bang. LHCb will try to investigate what happened to the "missing" antimatter.

Well of course, lets just nillywilly build these detectors to detect stuff that happened DURING THE BIG BANG (or shortly there after). What kind of energy do you think it takes to observe this phenomena?

So I guess your post is irrelevant? Don't you think? If you are a physicist, please enlighthen us rather to denigrate us.

But going back to the OP, is there a standard in law or precedence that could argue that proceeding with unknown/ untested technology could be stopped based upon the presumption that a scientific experiment could cause the end of the whole of humanity? Not since the American Atoll tests, I think?..............


[edit on 25-2-2010 by Kratos40]

The bible coders www.divinecoder.com was found in Genesis and search term="HCLNUKE"

and Matrix Sample
l ye bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to the grave. 1 And the famine was sore in the land. 2 And it came to pass, when they had eaten up the corn which they had brought out of Egypt, that their father said unto them: 'Go again, buy us a little food.' 3 And Ju - Genesis

Term Index ELS P-Value T-Test
LHCNUKE 126739 1109 0.000000991031 HIGH
YID 126740 360 0.000002291092 HIGH
RUN 126743 122 0.000002303601 HIGH
IGO 126744 2 0.000002296823 HIGH
IRUN 126744 637 0.000001730095 HIGH
GOD 126746 341 0.000002301311 HIGH
GOG 126746 292 0.000002265688 HIGH
FISION 126788 328 0.000001159708 HIGH
FOR 126788 232 0.000002301491 HIGH
WIND 126794 776 0.000001733093 HIGH
CMS 126815 1298 0.000002265796 HIGH
YARD 126832 878 0.000001742318 HIGH
COME 126846 192 0.000001747402 HIGH
EDGY 126857 1100 0.000001738157 HIGH
FALL 126873 343 0.000001727465 HIGH
FIVE 126873 687 0.000001736021 HIGH
SOIL 126894 235 0.000001736642 HIGH
FROM 127004 399 0.000001716211 HIGH
NULL 127127 369 0.000001714692 HIGH
BLAST 127176 138 0.000001397964 HIGH
BOMB 127183 390 0.000001698049 HIGH
YELL 127189 1432 0.000001736220 HIGH
SAUDI 127632 614 0.000001396527 HIGH
FAIL 127808 1171 0.000001736126 HIGH
KING 129023 722 0.000001706610 HIGH
SWISS 129489 475 0.000001381935 HIGH
ITALY 129813 831 0.000001397337 HIGH
BARAK 130265 878 0.000001390681 HIGH
PARIS 130722 103 0.000001390548 HIGH
RUSSIA 137056 724 0.000001161400 HIGH
FRANCE 144112 858 0.000001172025 HIGH
PROTON 145593 537 0.000001166185 HIGH

Possible fision nuke in LHC and debris to Swiss, Paris France, Rusia, Italy, etc.