Fore Will (origin at its finest)

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Golden Boy

 

Where is the proof you exist I don't have any...

Please provide the Proof you exist...

After all I may only be writing to a compter...

You might be. I have been known to fail the Turing test. But in any case, this is off-topic. Why did you bring it up?

Originally posted by Golden Boy

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Golden Boy

 

Where is the proof you exist I don't have any...

Please provide the Proof you exist...

After all I may only be writing to a computer...

You might be. I have been known to fail the Turing test. But in any case, this is off-topic. Why did you bring it up?

Incorrect I am Right on Topic....

Fore Will (origin at its finest)

The origin of existence is WILL. Does anyone dispute this? It takes WILL to do things. Therefore it takes WILL to create anything in the first place. Which do you need? WILL or SELF to create a universe? Somewhere in your will it is in stone that it takes WILL for any and every thing to be. So WILL is the all origin. But what do you all believe or think? Ha! It takes a will to believe and think. The SELF is nothing/dead without WILL. Before I'm a SELF, I'm a WILL. Feel me? Raw WILL is our origin. We share WILL. For it is what we have in common. And no one wants to live without a will, correct? LIVING is WILL.

Golden Boy As you have provided No evidence you exist....I think you are just an empty program having No LIFE.... and Conspire against LIFE...
I can't see the point of your fruitless exercise...

I will support the OP for having the balls to explore this area....

A Star for You...... Tormentations

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


So you dismiss my posts on the basis that I am a computer conspiring against life?

Riiiight.

In any case, if you are on topic, please explain how asking me to prove my existence somehow affects the argument that will is the only thing which can perform actions.

reply to post by Golden Boy


If you have intelligence try using it ???

The evidence is... the existence of yourself... You work it out ???

That is if you exist ????

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Golden Boy

 

If you have intelligence try using it ???

The evidence is... the existence of yourself... You work it out ???

That is if you exist ????

I'm afraid I can't see it. Since you apparently have such a mighty intellect, perhaps you would deign to explain to this poor peasant what your argument is.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


I think you are on track.

If there is a simple way to reiterate will itself (from the topic), then we simply need a will to live.

Originally posted by dzonatas
reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

 

I think you are on track.

If there is a simple way to reiterate will itself (from the topic), then we simply need a will to live.

Bingo a hudred Stars 4 U....

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller

Originally posted by dzonatas
reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

 

I think you are on track.

If there is a simple way to reiterate will itself (from the topic), then we simply need a will to live.

Bingo a hudred Stars 4 U....

And this means what, exactly?

Originally posted by Golden Boy

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller

Originally posted by dzonatas
reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

 

I think you are on track.

If there is a simple way to reiterate will itself (from the topic), then we simply need a will to live.

Bingo a hudred Stars 4 U....

And this means what, exactly?

You have already answered this Question yourself...

You are obviously a bot.

Not knowing LIFE, or Will, let alone Free Will.

Get back on topic...

That is if you can ???

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
You have already answered this Question yourself...

You are obviously a bot.

Not knowing LIFE, or Will, let alone Free Will.

Get back on topic...

That is if you can ???

No, the question has not been answered. Either explain how proving my existence affects the argument or drop it, as, if it doesn't affect the argument, it is off-topic. Then present the evidence backing your claims about will.

reply to post by Golden Boy


Look its very simple….

If you can't even prove your existence to me,
how can anything be proved ???

It's all subjective ???

You ask for proof, but this is only a human interpretation
of reality and Not Truth...

All the human species tries to escape the truth and Pretend,
but in the end of the experience we find the Truth.
And that Truth is….. that we were wrong.

Its Not others you need to Convince.

When it comes down to it,
the only thing that really matters in the end,
is being able to convince yourself.

It is yourself you have to live with.

Then the years that follow, tells you if you were right or wrong.

If you are found to be wrong and wanting, then look again,
and change the direction of your research.

I can guarantee you will find the answers eventually,
even if it is at the moment of what you call dying.

We achieve absolutely nothing at all, by just convincing others.

Each of us need to ask ourselves instead of asking others..

After all we are all alone, in our experience of our own version
each of us has, regarding our own copy, of this little universe in the end,
and there is no one to listen, except our self.



[edit on 24-2-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


How do we know you exist?

Maybe you are simply a reaction inside the mind of Golden Boy that is playing against his will to refuse to explain his existence to you.


You think you exist but Golden Boy invented you then argued against you so you would question his existence. This was a way for him to prove his own existence. But in reality neither of you exist and are only subjects inside my own inner dialogue to try and prove to myself that I exist.


The best way to prove ones existence is to invent a detractor to push to prove. You then have to make the detractor prove they exist to confirm you invented them. Once you have established this dialogue you then have to question if somebody else, like me, invented both of you as opposing view to validate my own existence to myself.

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Golden Boy

 

Look its very simple….

If you can't even prove your existence to me,
how can anything be proved ???

It's all subjective ???

You ask for proof, but this is only a human interpretation
of reality and Not Truth...

All the human species tries to escape the truth and Pretend,
but in the end of the experience we find the Truth. And that Truth is….. that we were wrong.

Its Not others you need to Convince.

When it comes down to it,
the only thing that really matters in the end,
is being able to convince yourself.

It is yourself you have to live with.

Then the years that follow, tells you if you were right or wrong.

If you are found to be wrong and wanting, then look again,
and change the direction of your research.

I can guarantee you will find the answers eventually,
even if it is at the moment of what you call dying.

We achieve absolutely nothing at all, by just convincing others.

Each of us need to ask ourselves instead of asking others..

After all we are all alone, in our experience of our own version
each of us has, regarding our own copy, of this little universe in the end,
and there is no one to listen, except our self.

Okay, look. If you want to live entirely inside your own head and declare that everything you believe is true simply because you say it is, go ahead. But that isn't the way things work in the real world. In reality, you need evidence to support your claims. Merely asserting that they are true because "I believe them and, since you can't prove that you or your universe really exists, they are therefore true" gives you zero credibility and will convince no one.
In any case, this is still off-topic, as it doesn't affect the argument in the slightest. Whether or not you believe that other people exist doesn't matter. You still need evidence to support the assertions you make if you want them to be logically valid in the universe that you perceive. Trying to hide behind a variant of solipsism gets you nowhere.
So you still need evidence, and you still haven't presented any. You're simply hiding behind metaphysics. Either present the evidence that supports your assertions or admit that they are false.

reply to post by The Teller


****, you figured me out. I blip out of existence every time you go to sleep.

reply to post by The Teller


Bingo... You are on to it.. I agree with you...

And therefore Will exists in our selves, but is Will the root of All ???

Or does Awareness have to exist first before Will can exist ???

Whats your thoughts on this ???

reply to post by Golden Boy


Ha. Don't worry I'm trying to beat that fella's record, you know the one who hasn't slept for 33 years. So you should be okay.


Wait there if you replied to me maybe you are the grand architect and I'm the buffer to the argument of your existence. Damn this is making me tired. There goes my record.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Seriously my thoughts are that once you become aware you are then forced into will. But did your will push you into being aware?


You cannot have a cause or effect if you don't realise you exist. But once you do, the very realisation is in itself a cause and has the effect of forcing will.


So you realise you exist and have to acknowledge your own existence. You then force your will upon yourself and environment. This will may be that you force yourself to have a thought. That thought may be that you realise you exist.

reply to post by Golden Boy

Okay, look. If you want to live entirely inside your own head and declare that everything you believe is true simply because you say it is, go ahead.

Yes U are definitely a bot .... as U assume too much...

I am Not in a human head as you believe in ignorance but merelly experience this little world from outside it...

You only know the physical world so called, because you are Unaware of LIFE... Or where your Awareness has come from... Pehaps you lack Awareness???

You follow other humans like a sheep to the slaughter...

That is the ones you want to... because U know no better...

I can't help it if you are only a program...

reply to post by Tormentations


Most would say what you do has a lot to do with cause and effect, in fact there's a whole branch of philosophy that thinks you have very little free will if any at all and that all things are decided by cause and effect. Sort of taking Newtons Third Law of Motion to the extreme, for every action there is an equal and opposite, well, you know the rest.

Cause and effect would be our origin, starting with the so called Prime Mover or the Big Bang everything that has happened since then has been merely a series of actions and reactions including the formation and evolution of life. Not sure where WILL figures into it.

reply to post by The Teller

Seriously my thoughts are that once you become aware you are then forced into will. But did your will push you into being aware?


You cannot have a cause or effect if you don't realise you exist. But once you do, the very realisation is in itself a cause and has the effect of forcing will.


So you realise you exist and have to acknowledge your own existence. You then force your will upon yourself and environment. This will may be that you force yourself to have a thought. That thought may be that you realise you exist.

This is what I was getting at, when I mentioned the Paradox and its structure regarding its "Algorithm"...

[edit on 24-2-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]