Do you really KNOW whats behind you ?

Hi all,

Now normally, as many of you regulars have probably come to realize, that I like to create threads that insist upon at least a modicum of the use of one's grey matter ... whether it be a thread based on mathematics or based on physics or time travel, etc, etc.

However, recently during a moment of idle contemplation, I thought that just for a change I'd just throw this particular 'contemplative moment' of mine, that happens to require virtually no deep thought, out there for general consumption

Ok, the other day I was watching tv in a darkened room and during a commercial break, closed my eyes for a sec. At that point, I realized something that was so obvious and yet it had never, ever occurred to me before ... it had to do with the world around me and and what is REALLY happening when we look at something.

Firstly, a bit about seeing and optics (oh,oh ... I was wrong ... thinking IS required )

The basic act of seeing starts by a bunch (actually lots of bunches) of photons being emitted by something like the sun or a light bulb, being reflected by an object they strike and entering our eye. These photons then interact with the rods and cones that line our retinas, which in turn generate an electrical signal which is channeled along the optic nerve and into the vision processing centers of our brains. This specialized vision center then interprets this electrical signal and generates an internal representation of the world around us ... and we 'see'.

This is all well and good, but then it occurred to me that this is only a part of the reality surrounding each and everyone of us.

What do I mean ? Well, if we only 'experience' and 'see' the world around us by way of those photons entering our eyes, then that means basically the ENTIRE world and indeed universe that we move through each day is absolutely, utterly and completely pitch black EXCEPT for essentially that small range of vision that we have from left side of our field of view, to the right side of our field of view ... basically we 'see' the world thats directly in front of us ONLY because of the photons that are zipping around and fortunately happen to enter our eyes.
But what about the part of the world thats behind us ? Say we're alone in a room with a light bulb shining in the room. We can clearly see everything in front of us because photons are reflecting of objects in front of us and entering our eyes. However, we don't see anything behind us because none of the photons reflecting of objects behind us are able to enter our eyes. Therefore whatever we CANNOT directly see, such as the chair behind us exists in absolute and total darkness.
So as we move around from place to place, we are essentially enveloped and completely enclosed in the darkest blackness you can imagine. Even though we're being constantly bombarded by photons from all directions, the world around us remains in total darkness EXCEPT for that small slice of vision we get due to those few photons that happen to reach our eyes.

So just imagine, when you look straight ahead, the rest of your world behind you stretching from your left side to your right side exists in complete darkness. When you turn around to look at something behind you, it essentially 'materializes into view' from out of the darkness whilst what you were seeing before you turned around now has returned back to the darkness.
And walking down a street on a sunny day, the world in front of you is bright, but EVERYTHING behind you is plunged into darkness. So no matter what you do or where you go, the world behind you will always exist in perpetual darkness.

Just seemed a somewhat sobering thought to realize that directly behind you and stretching away to infinity is nothing but the darkest and deepest of darknesses imaginable ! And the same applies to every other person on the planet ... we're all wrapped in darkness and moving around in a world that is essentially invisible to us except for those few photons illuminating just that small portion of the world in front of us.

WOW, man excellent I got really into the visualization while reading it, you really conveyed your idea in a nice fashion. This is excellent introvert thinking and makes total sense in a holographic sense because in reality there is all of the matter behind because it also has influence on the material in front you, reflection etc.

still nice idea

Interesting post - something I would like to throw in....

Have you ever closed your eyes for an extended period of time and interacted with others? Like a group of friends outside at a BBQ chatting?

I tried this for about 1.5-2hours and had a pretty amazing experience. You begin to "see" while your eyes are closed.

Mind you, some light does penetrate your eyelids, but it is mostly a blank slate, where Sound, Smell, and Touch create what you"see".

I'm sorry...
you were smoking what?

I don't perceive any darkness at all behind me. There is simply a lack of conscious registration of any sort. If I'm in a dark room, I only see darkness in my visual field, not where my visual field is not. Yes, when you look behind your eyes, you can ponder what it's like to not exist and have the privilege of expiencing it to some degree.

TMBG does illuminate what is there, however:



[edit on 2/22/2010 by EnlightenUp]

[edit on 2/22/2010 by EnlightenUp]

reply to post by Dragon33


nicotine can put one in a contemplative state like this.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by thaknobodi]

reply to post by Dragon33


Why do people with closed minds always say that?

It's a perfectly reasonable philosophical idea, written very eloquently, even if I had had this idea myself, I would never have been able to explain it so well.

S&F

Well heres my "you made me think" s&f. Of course with that comes my thoughts for all to see.

When I was in the armed forces, I knew what was behind me at all times...usually a Marine (or many) or my door gunners. I trusted my life to them on many occasions. They had my "6". Lucky for me that they had illumination in front of them to keep my butt safe. That said, I have to believe that there is light behind me.

Now, using our FLIR in extreme darkness let me see heat. Heat is not emptyness...it is exothermic radiation. I just needed technology to adjust it to the spectrum I could sense.

Blind people learn to "see" in the darkness. People with no ability to sense visual input learn to feel heat, hear positional echos, smell proximity.

I guess it goes back to the old..."if a tree falls in a forest..." question.

cool idea; but what about the beings who are constituted from the dark? are you sure they want to be what you desire to see? and how do you know a reality that you see is;not, but the darkness of anther beings inflection?

Methinks you are taking the pee here. Hanging a set of wing mirrors about your person will increase your spatial awareness of your behind a great deal, and you can always ask the feller coming toward you if it's a bit dark in your nether regions, then once you pick yourself off the ground, go home and have a coffee and stay off the wackybacky for good.
Science question somewhat related but just as daft, If a tree falls in a wood and nobody is there...does it make a sound?

Since Electromagnetic radiation is everywhere in the universe, and part of that radiation is visible light...Hola!

[edit on 22-2-2010 by smurfy]

Unfortunately most of you have missed the point entirely

The ONLY reason you can see anything at all is because of those few photons that manage to enter your eyes and get processed by your brain.

Lets step back a bit and I'll try to explain again and hopefully make it clearer.

Ok, we're going to limit our explanation to a single room comprised of walls and ceiling only ... no windows and no doors. Inside this room is a single light bulb which is switched on.
Now, for a person standing outside this completely sealed room, they will have no idea at all whether that light bulb is on or off because no light can leak out of the room to give any clues ... ok, so far ?
At this point, ask yourself whether the interior of the room is light or dark.
And the answer is that even with the light bulb switched on, the inside of the room is pitch black ... sounds wrong, doesn't it ? Well, its not !

That sealed room is absolutely flooded with trillions of photons coming from the light bulb and they're bouncing around all over the room.
BUT ... photons only carry information about the contents of that room ... they do NOT make the inside of the room bright or visible at all ... that room remains in darkness permanently. The only time that the inside of that room acquires brightness is at the moment that someone steps into it and SOME of the photons zipping around in that room finally get to enter an eye and then immediately processed by the brain ... giving an ILLUSION only of brightness.

Or look at it this way instead.
Enter the room and switch of the light bulb ... from your point of view the room is plunged into darkness. Now take out your flashlight and switch it on. Now the only part of the room that you can see is that very small part illuminated by the beam from your flashlight, the rest of the room remains dark. Now swing your flashlight around. Where the flashlight beam hits, those parts of the room become instantly visible, while other parts that were previously visible have now been instantly plunged into darkness.
So basically the only reason you see ANY parts of the room is because photons from those areas have entered your eyes for processing.

Now lets leave the room and get back to the outside world where the light bulb has been replaced by the sun.
Again, we have trillions and trillions of photons zipping all around you BUT by themselves, these photons DO NOT make the world light or bright. The sun may be shining but the world around you (and everyone else) remains in total and complete darkness UNTIL some of those photons enter your eye and get resolved by your brain, giving the ILLUSION of brightness, colour, etc
So similar to the flashlight example, if you were to stand outside on a sunny day and just turn around on the spot, as parts of the world come into your field of view (i.e. in front of you), photons from that area enter your eyes and you 'see' whats in front of you ... but the rest of the world that is NOT in your immediate field of vision (i.e. behind you) exists in darkness ... until you turn to face that direction at which point photons from that direction enter your eyes, get processed and you 'see' that area.

So all of us essentially spend 24/7 of our entire lives surrounded by total blackness EXCEPT for that narrow 'flashlight beam' effect in the direction we happen to be facing ... a very sobering thought, indeed !

Here's a scary thought ... every time you drive a car, you're essentially driving but seeing nothing of the world around you except for the few photons entering your eyes and giving you a glimpse ONLY of the world ahead of you.

For a blind person, they experience the true and natural state of the world and the universe ... nothing but darkness.

reply to post by tauristercus


A nice metaphor, and fun to visualize. But if you really want to drive yourself insane, try and figure out what color the area around your eyes is. You know, that area just outside your vision. Look straight down and you'll see it.

Also, it makes your eyes hurt.

reply to post by tauristercus
No you are missing your own point, no sealed rooms, no absence of light, no total darkness ever, as long as there is Electromagnetism. In fact the opposite is true there is no total darkness as we exist. Please, no compromise to the initial thread, makes no difference anyway.

Guys, what's up with all the seriousness here? It's obviously just a little "Hey, never thought of it like that before". Sure, okay, technically there is no such thing as absolute darkness. All he means is that, for you, everything that you aren't looking at right now may as well be in absolute shadow.
Not a huge, earth-shattering revelation, just a fun little thought experiment.

ETA: Or perhaps I am incorrect, and he literally means everything that he has said. In which case it's still not a great, earth-shattering revelation. It's just fun with words - redefining "brightness".

[edit on 2/22/2010 by Golden Boy]

reply to post by EnlightenUp


How utterly befitting. Has there ever been a song that was more appropriate for the topic of a thread?

Where your eyes don't go...a part of you is hovering....
It's a nightmare that you'll never be discovering......


I do get it, OP. And it's interesting. It is indeed like the tree in the forest.


[edit on 2/22/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

Originally posted by Golden Boy
Guys, what's up with all the seriousness here? It's obviously just a little "Hey, never thought of it like that before ... just a fun little thought experiment".

Absolutely correct ... no seriousness or deep thinking intended. Just something that is so obvious but never occurred to me before.

Or perhaps I am incorrect, and he literally means everything that he has said. In which case it's still not a great, earth-shattering revelation. It's just fun with words - redefining "brightness".

Yes, I do 'literally' mean it ... we are all surrounded constantly by darkness our entire lives.
We 'think' that it's sunny outside and that light and brightness is all around us as a result ... but NOT so.

Don't for one minute equate the trillions of photons zipping around you and bouncing/reflecting of objects as 'light and brightness' glowing all around you. The only reason we see 'light' at all is because we've evolved sensors (eyes) that can interact with those photons and extract information from them that allows our brains to model the world around us. The light you think is all around you ONLY exists in your mind AFTER your brain has processed a bunch of photons. Without your brain interpreting those photons, they are doing nothing but zipping around in pitch darkness.

Think about it this way, lets say that you have perfectly good working eyes BUT they can only interact with photons that are NOT visible light photons, perhaps these photons have a greater or smaller frequency range than visible light photons. Now step into a room that contains only ONE type of photon, the ones being emitted by the switched on light bulb in the ceiling.

Now I ask you ... are you standing in a completely pitch dark room ... or is it brightly lit and you can 'see' all the objects in that room ?
Don't answer too quickly without REALLY thinking about it.

reply to post by tauristercus


So if we don't see it, wheather by vision or by vision of rereflection.
It is truly enveloped by the pitch black darkness that exists as a
constant without us making the connection.?
Do I have you right?

In the bright sunlit world there remains

A darkside.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by tauristercus

 

So if we don't see it, wheather by vision or by vision of rereflection.
It is truly enveloped by the pitch black darkness that exists as a
constant without us making the connection.?
Do have you right?

In the bright sunlit world there remains

A darkside.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by randyvs]

I think I understand what you're saying and yes, the entire world including ourselves exist in complete and utter pitch darkness and the ONLY reason we're able to 'see' the illusion of light and brightness is because of our brains processing and interpreting those photons that enter our eyes directly and creating a mental image of whats in front of us.

it doesn't matter how many trillions of photons are zipping around us ... the photons themselves do NOT shine or glow or cause illumination ... they are simply zipping away through a pitch black environment and it's only those entering our eyes that produce the illusion of light or brightness.

You may think that you're sitting in a brightly lit room but the reality is that you're in fact sitting in and completely surrounded by, pitch darkness ... with the illusion of light being created only INSIDE YOUR MIND by the few photons entering your eyes.

As long as an animal, insect, or camera is observing you then there's no darkness behind you. In fact, I didn't think there's darkness just because you aren't looking there. The photos still exist, it's just that you're not observing them.

Originally posted by Nventual
As long as an animal, insect, or camera is observing you then there's no darkness behind you. In fact, I didn't think there's darkness just because you aren't looking there. The photos still exist, it's just that you're not observing them.

No ... no ... no .... you're all still NOT getting it ... can't say I blame you as it takes a bit of effort to really get your mind around the concept that we're all in reality spending our entire lives surrounded by utter darkness

It doesn't matter if someone is standing behind you and looking at you ... of course they're going to see you because of the photons reflecting of the back of you and into their eyes ... their internal visual processing gives them an illusion of light and brightness between them and your back ... but thats ALL it is ... just a representation created within their mind.
There is NO light or brightness between their eyes and your back ... it's just blackness in reality. The photons that reflected of your back then traveled the short distance to that persons eyes, traveled through a region
comprised of pitch darkness ... then that persons brain processed the photons that entered their eyes and represented that in the persons mind as your back.

Put your hand in front of your face ... are you seeing your actual physical hand ? NO !
You're only seeing a representation of your hand that was generated by your brain after it processed the photons reflecting of your hand and into your eyes.
In reality, between your eyes and your hand in front of your face is nothing but darkness ... with only photons carrying information about your hand making the actual crossing.