Eating Alices Cookie didnt take me to Wonderland. Stop telling people to avoid medication!!!

reply to post by noonebutme


Glad you like it :p It seems some people will just never learn that they can heal themselves tho, they are too used to relying on the system instead of on themselves.

reply to post by noonebutme


Glad you like it :p It seems some people will just never learn that they can heal themselves tho, they are too used to relying on the system instead of on themselves.

I don't really trust modern medicine either myself, but I do have reasons and I do think Big Pharma only cares about getting people to use their drugs.

The FDA/Merck were caught red handed intentionally suppressing the increased risk of heart attack from the use of Vioxx and released it to the public anyway. From the above link:

A study led by Graham that was concluded in the summer of 2004 found that Vioxx was responsible for an estimated 38,000 excess heart attacks and sudden cardiac deaths. In his testimony, Graham stated that this was a conservative estimate. He said that “a more realistic and likely range of estimates for the number of excess cases in the US” was between 88,000 and 139,000. “Of these,” he added, “30-40 percent probably died. For the survivors, their lives were changed forever.”

So, they intentionally put people's lives at risk to make a buck and even if only the conservative estimate is correct, that's almost 40,000 people, yet we can't fathom the idea that we kill our own people. We kill our own people for money all the time and I'm sure this wasn't the first or the last time the FDA was complicit in something like this.

In January of 2009, the FDA's own scientists wrote a letter to Obama saying that the FDA is corrupt and puts the American people at risk with their drugs and policies.
From the above link:

The scientists call FDA "fundamentally broken," and say that it has been "corrupted and distorted by current FDA managers, thereby placing the American people at risk." The letter alleges that the Director of FDA's Office of Device Evaluation "ignored the recommendations of all the experts" that had reviewed the science relating to mammography CAD devices and found it lacking, and cleared the devices for marketing anyway.

Death by Medicine

Then, there's the fact that popular anti-depressants Prozac and Paxil are nothing more than fluoride pills that throw your body into a state of fluoride toxicity. Fluoride in any form has been proven to destroy the thyroid and wreak havoc in your body.
From above link:

June 19th, 2003: FDA to review reports of a possible increased risk of suicidal thinking and suicide attempts in children and adolescents under the age of 18 treated with Paxil. Reports of studies showing that Paxil is no more effective than placebo in children.

June 10, 2003: UK Department of Health recommends that Paxil (Seroxat in Europe) should not be used in children under the age of 18 due to safety concerns of increased self-harm in children taking that medication.

Boy, that Paxil sure is an effective anti-depressant. Then, there's the fact that it only costs 11 cents to produce 100 Prozac pills, yet they charge us nearly $250 for it which is a mark-up of 224,973%! There's others, too.

I don't trust modern medicine and I don't trust doctors because they do what they're told to do. These same doctors are pushing untested vaccines (Swine) on pregnant women with scare tactics and intimidation. Right, I'm supposed to trust them and take their word for it when they say something is "safe".

Having said that, I would not come on this or any forum and start dishing out medical advice like I'm an expert on their situation. Share my view, yes, but advise someone to stop taking medication? No way. Some people do benefit from medication and you don't know their situation, but I also think it's way overused as a "quick fix" for many people.

S & F to the OP

This is all very simple and straight forward to me.

I work in the healthcare profession and agree with a lot of the comments regarding the over-use of needless drugs and it being all about the money.

Having said that, there are many instances were taking certain meds makes the difference between life and death.

I believe what the OP is saying, is that to debate this issue is great...it is what we are here at ATS for. What is NOT okay, is to tell someone who is on medication to STOP taking it, just because YOU say so. There are many meds, especially for psych issues, that have VERY serious side effects if you stop cold turkey. Certain depression drugs can cause suicidal idieations if you go cold turkey.

SO....bottom line: Debate away, free speech and all that good stuff. But yes, I agree it is extremely irresponsible, wreckless and maybe even deadly to get onto a message board and give bad, perhaps malicous medical advice to someone you don't even know.

For those of you who can not grasp that concept....well, that just scares me.

I know very little about depression, but I have been prescribed Adderall at around 15 for reasons I didn't even understand. I stopped taking it because it made me feel very edgy and focused. The focused part was really good, but I was acting very aggressive and non feeling towards my friends and family. It wasn't easy because I became very dependent on it.

I agree with the OP to the point where people should not be telling people not to take a certain drug. I mean if you think about it, if you listen to someone online who knows nothing about your condition or your situation, then you kind of deserve to get your shoes wet for jumping in the puddle. Humans have willpower, they will eventually come to use it, or it will use them, it takes time.

However, I feel really strong about the pharmaceutical industry, the health care industry altogether. In a world where money is power, it is more beneficial to treat a disease and rake in a lot of money every day then it is to cure it once and not get that daily income. Makes me sad.

What would be any difference in those who think medicine is poison to our bodies, than eating processed foods, breathing the polluted air, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, snorting drugs, or even drinking the nasty water that we are forced to drink and what about the crap we use on our bodies, deodorant , creams, lotions, the list could go on..........

hummmmmm..........

responding to OP:

I understand where you are coming from however,

The problem is, is that more and more people are taking more and more medications for every little thing. Oh my back hurts, here's some Vicodin, oh I'm sad, here's some Zoloft, oh I can't sleep here's some Lunesta, etc. etc. Then you end up with someone who is overmedicated and in some instances DIE. So, I guess Michael Jackson was taking proper dosages.. because it was issued by a doctor.? Someone please let Heath Ledger know why he died.. he was prescribed medicine because he couldn't sleep and had depression. Look at Britney Murphy.. she was taking meds for pneumonia and anemia and look where it got her.

And I have personal experience. My mom died thanks to the fabulous doctors of medicine giving her too many pills that didn't work together. I was diagnosed with depression and the pills they shoved down my throat just made it worse.

I found things like meditation, excercise and eating right helped me the best.

Do I think there is a need for medication? Of course. Do I think we are overmedicated.. YES!!

sometimes it's good to hear others' personal experiences, because sometimes Doctors just give you the latest pill ...

[edit on 22-2-2010 by galatea]

reply to post by LiquidCrystalz


Some of us don't use crap on our bodies like deodorant, creams, lotions or anything like that :p If humans needed that stuff for our bodies I think we would have been born with it lol (just a thought). I do belive that once you start using deodorant you will have to keep using deodorant as it clogs up your pores and makes you sweat even more... I am used to clean air and lungs and get my water from natural sources.

There are ancient skeletal remains of human and Ofhuman beings of which show evidence of life over 100 years of age.

The answers to a human beings longevity are found In/Of nature as per design. Man is much more a part/apart of/from Nature than 'one' realizes.
Man can only attempt to mimic nature as an artiste' impression of a "Gross Piton".

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Perseus Apex]

Oz sounds like he likes his pills. truth is changing you daily habits will do alot more for your body and spirt then pills. meditation is golden.

Oz have you ever tried a spiritual look at your depression?

also be less presumptuous. Alot of us do know what we are talking about, and i doubt you are a Dr. ether. Anyone with common sense can see that the pharmaceutical companies treat everyone like a customer not a patient, Anyone who had to buy medication in the last few years before wallmart and target started "PUSHING PILLS" at discount rates, they used to be so pricey i remember my grandmothers on both side of my family crying at times cause their medications was so expensive. So it would just be Great if you didnt go on this rant about how we are "killing" people, DRUGS Rx or recreation are bed for your body period.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by killartofu]

I agree with the OP, however i feel that it really is not that simple at least for those in the US. They are definitely an over medicated society full of misdiagnosis and doctors willing to hand out drugs like candy and the big pharma companies give solid reason for people to be concerned. In Australia the system is not as bad, at least not yet. Take heed of that warning.
But again in my experience being diagnosed with PTSD and depression, i chose not to go the medicated route, and i feel that if i had i would not be in such a good place now. However treatment is really the key, if i didn't see a head doc i know i would be worse off for sure. Today, i am still always going to have to battle these demons they will never go away, but i don't want them too. I can manage my life to be in control of it always.

So while i agree with you Oz and this thread is great and can open many a can of worms, each situation can be managed differently, but always do so with advice from one or more trained healthcare professionals. Sadly if they are dishing it out because you lost your cat then i don't know what hope there is.

Exactally !!! Lets not consult our pastors, or pray about anything, or go talk it out with our psych's, friends or family ....we'll just take a pill.

yea.. there's REALLY needs to be a balance and all I've seen within the last 10 years, is ..

A pill for EVERTHING !!! seriously .. accrd to the AMA, FDA etc.. there is NO cure for virtually ANYTHING medically wrong with your body. It's either a pill or surgery .. don't believe me, look it up.

pills aren't the answer to EVERYTHING!! and yes, I've beat depression without taking meds for it.

How depressed was I? well... I don't want to bore you with what I went through in the last 10 years or even my childhood but.. let's just say...

A pill is NOT always the answer!!! I think it would be good if you inserted a bit more balance in your research .. or even suggest a second opinion. Most doctors work for big pharma anyways, everyone knows that; from some of the doctors I've seen yeeeeah.. I'll definately get a 2nd and 3rd opinion..

My question to OzWeatherman is a what if sernerino is .. "what If there isn't any way to get the meds you need.. then what do you do.. especially when you have NO insurance or TSHTF!"

~How would you beat depression then ??
~If you borrow some, how would you know it was good for you to take it;
what are the side effect, or even worse .. After effects?

~will you risk your health even MORE just to get rid of this depression by taking more meds, some which maybe even more harmfull to some than good..

yes, you see you really need to bring a fully balanced post to the table. and with more than just one web link and screaming at the members; which is also intresting since you never posted how you came to this knowledge that members are telling other members to stop taking their meds. It sounds as if all the members are telling you this specifically or is there just one or two people telling you this ??

Here's my one web link.. took me all of 12 secs to find.. and WAY more balanced..

Here's some real questions should someone have if they think they're depressed.

Questions to ask yourself and a mental health professional

~Is my depression severe enough to justify drug treatment?
~Is medication the best option for treating my depression?
~Am I willing to tolerate unwanted side effects?
~What non-drug treatments might help my depression?
~Do I have the time and motivation to pursue other treatments such as therapy and exercise?
~What self-help strategies might reduce my depression?
~If I decide to take medication, should I pursue therapy as well?

Questions to ask your doctor

~Are there any medical conditions that could be causing my depression?
~What are the side effects and risks of the antidepressant you are recommending?
~Are there any foods or other substances I will need to avoid?
~How will this drug interact with other prescriptions I’m taking?
~How long will I have to take this medication?
~Will withdrawing from the drug be difficult?
~Will my depression return when I stop taking medication?

source

....and depression is cureable TO SOME people without taking meds for it. SOME ........not all ..

Let's break a few myths:

1. Anti depressants are not placebos, they most certainly have numbing effect, depending on type they usually reduce feelings and emotions to null.
   
2. They do not cause long term addiction, and are meant to kind of let you live in emotionless wonderland for a while. For example heroine (and its derivatives) is used as an anti depressant.
   
3. Taking or not taking meds unfortunately *is* your own responsibility, pretending "they are great for you" is same as pretending "they kill you". It is not recommended to snort heroine because your cat died, but you still can thanks to Mexican drug lords who care about your well being (same with big pharma).
   

Oz, I couldn't agree more. I was put on anti-depressants (fluoxatine) about a year ago and as you said, it took a couple of attempts to get the dosage and drug right, but they saved my life, my career and my marriage. Like you, I'm now off the drugs and seem completely cured. Obviously, I still get days when I feel down, but who the hell doesn't? That's just life.

Also, after being born with a number of congenital abnormalities, I can say that without modern medicine and drugs, I would simply not be here today.

OK, doctors make mistakes and bad decisions. They are human, but I can tell you hundreds of times more, where modern medicine has helped, rather than hindered.

S&F

edit for spellnig

[edit on 22-2-2010 by nik1halo]

Is the OP qualified to prescribe medicine or diagnose illness?

Apparently there is some confusion regarding advising people not to take medicine and holding a gun to someone's head and demanding they put the pill bottle down. Maybe someone else can explain it.


: )

[edit on 22-2-2010 by skoalman88]

Originally posted by noonebutme
reply to post by LightWonder

 

That sounds like you were just a bit depressed as everyone gets from time to time.

But for people who are clinically depressed or suffer actual mental disorders, altering their perspectives isn't as easy as it was for you. The reason they often can't is because of their mental illness.

I don't see how being happy will change a manic depressive or someone suffering from schizophrenia - mainly because due to their illness, they don't know how to be happy. So they need help. And in many of these cases, certain drugs alter the current drug chemistry in the brain, either increasing/decreasing a particular hormone or neurotransmitter that then *allows* their brain to 'see' a new perspective.

ps, I'm not a doctor. But i do suffer from severe depression which at times, only drugs have been able to get me out of the spiral.

The point I am trying to make is that if other natural methods were practiced like meditation etc. instead of resorting to a synthetic temporary fix, people could solve alot of problems within themselves which with out a doubt could fix some internal issues.

I'm tired.. hope I got my idea across clearly.

cheers.

Well done OP!

It's grotesque how many people on here are deluded enough to think they're medical experts despite clearly lacking any medical training or scientific understanding.

It's even worse when the majority of them spout unfounded nonsense and woo such as self healing, homeopathy and spirituality when they're all proven to be complete bull#. Isn't it fraud/potential manslaughter to dispense those kind of lies and jepordise people's health?

Not all meds are equal and different people respond to different medications and dosages, but the only people who can give proffesional opinions are qualifed doctors and statisticians (the people who can expose any number fiddling).

a question for folks who bring up side effects, do you realize that the FDA requires companies to list side effects?
they legally have to.
the thing is though, they have to list ALL of them, even the ones that happen to one person.
that is why you see lists a mile long and include serious things, even death.
its mostly due to the company being liable even if the effect happens to only one or two people ever.

sadly people not taking a drug that would otherwise work seems to be a side affect of the listed side effects out of fear.

Originally posted by LightWonder
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

sounds more weak-spirited if anything,

its all mind over matter, i "thought" i was depressed.

What??!!!?

Are you saying that a personal hell that I dealt with for years is down to me being weak-spirited?? If this is the case, this is on of the stupidest, ignorant, insensitive and insulting posts I have ever come across. I would not have wished what I went through on anyone, but in your case, I hope that one day you experience it just to retract that heartless post

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by LightWonder
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

sounds more weak-spirited if anything,

its all mind over matter, i "thought" i was depressed.

What??!!!?

Are you saying that a personal hell that I dealt with for years is down to me being weak-spirited?? If this is the case, this is on of the stupidest, ignorant, insensitive and insulting posts I have ever come across. I would not have wished what I went through on anyone, but in your case, I hope that one day you experience it just to retract that heartless post

Chill. Many people have had hell periods within their life.

Doesn't make you any more special than someone else.

::Cough:: maybe you need a chill pill for that rage.