Eating Alices Cookie didnt take me to Wonderland. Stop telling people to avoid medication!!!

I have very mixed views regarding this thread and some replies, I do not agree with Oz but I am glad there is an open discussion regarding it.

My Auntie took her life last year on her 50th birthday whilst in a 'care clinic'. She was on around 15 pills a day and was diagnosed with being a manic depressive (bi polar). She had battled this for many years being put into various clinics and being given many pills and medication.

On the day she died my mother had requested to take her out for the day to the park, the doctor refused this as he had not had chance to check her notes and believed she could not cope with outside stimulus. 2 hours after my mum left she cut her throat with the broken shards of her tea cup.

The week before I had called her just to say hello and let her know I was thinking about her. About 10 years earlier I had tried to commit suicide as I was depressed at the time (18), she was a nurse and at my bed side when I came around she explained to me that what we have can only be cured by ourselves. They tried to put me on seroxat, after about 3 days I stoppped taking it left the country and found myself by traveling and finding out what I needed to 'cure' myself.

The day I called she congratulated me on my success and said she was happy that I had found a way because it was too late for her, at the time I did not understand what she was saying. Now I do but it was too late to help her, 20 years of pills and 'treatment' finished her off, I have no doubt.

Its a shame she couldnt take her own advice, I still mourn for her but I take great strength now in helping others free themselves from depression without taking drugs. However, I do realise that some drugs are effective and that some people benifit from them.
I think it is very personal, some people can overcome this dreadful illness by changing partners, environenment, attitude and even faith but some do overcome it with drugs.

I just hope that anyone who suffers from this can find their personal way out of it, no matter what method that be.

Thanks Auntie Di for helping me find mine and thus helping me to help others.

Thanks Oz for an interesting thread and your personal insight.


edit for spelling

[edit on 22/2/2010 by LestatG]

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by Zenagain
As for people telling people to take meds, or to NOT take meds, that my friend is called freedom of speech.

Fair enough

But to come here an rave and rant about why nobody else should take them is irresponsible. Last guy I knew that thought along the same lines as the people saying to avoid medication, hung himself......

And how many people have hung themselves while on anti-depressants? You wonder why people don't trust doctors and the thousands of types of medication out there? Perhaps you should listen to the side effects.

Anti-depressants are a load of crap, mankind has lived without them before and guess what? We can still live without them, if anyone's life is so bad that they need anti-depressants, perhaps they should do something themselves to make the situation better rather than swallow a magical pill the all knowing doctor prescribes them. Sorry to offend anybody who has been/is on anti-depressants, but that is the truth. Mental weakness seems to have increased 500% in the last decade or so.


*SNIP*

MOD EDIT: Removed rude comment, Review Courtesy is Mandatory
-burdman30ott6
member & forum moderator

[edit on 23-2-2010 by burdman30ott6]

Originally posted by Perplexity
We can still live without them, if anyone's life is so bad that they need anti-depressants, perhaps they should do something themselves to make the situation better rather than swallow a magical pill the all knowing doctor prescribes them. Sorry to offend anybody who has been/is on anti-depressants, but that is the truth. Mental weakness seems to have increased 500% in the last decade or so.

As I said before, and as you so blatantly ignored, I struggled for 5 years trying to right the hole I was in without consulting anyone in the medical proffesion, before I decided I needed help. Thanks for showing your lack of understanding about depression

I'd be willing to bet you are one of the first in line for the H1N1 vaccine as well, right?

Never got it, as i didnt need it....I dont see the connection with this and depression

This poster reeks of fraud, probably some plant from the fed.

Great, another personal attack

Maybe you are working for an anti-pharmaceutical website and making baseless accusations for them to try and discredit others

Oh, and thanks for not reading the OP properly....yet again

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Anti-pharmaceutical site? How would they profit from people not listening to doctors? Explain.

And there is no connection between the H1N1 vaccine and depression, the connection is doing everything TPTB tells you to do : Listen to your doctor, take a dose of this, a dose of that, and a pinch of this and you will rid yourself of restless leg syndrome, etc etc.

I can see your point in pleading with people not to give/take medical advice on forums, I too feel it is semi-irresponsible. I think people should think for themselves, do the research and decide what is best for them. I don't think you are giving enough credit to people on these forums. I highly doubt anybody would take medical advice from a forum post very seriously.

And you didn't address my main point here. I'm sorry somebody you knew hung himself, but anti-depressants are frequently being noted as inducing thoughts of suicide to people who take them. That was my main argument.

I do not understand some of the attacks at Oz and the thread, I stated earlier that I do not agree 100% with him but he has a point. Its well known that some drugs will work on some people and not on others or that some have higher thresholds than others.

Cant we be civil regarding peoples views even if we dont share them? Yes we can. Its not hard.

I for one am glad for this thread as a) it let me to vent or relay my story b) it could be a great source of info for people suffering from this illness.

Maybe they find that they have been trying to think positively but they need a chemical to restore some balance and on the flip side people who have no luck with drugs might see that a positive attitude or a lifestyle change may be the for them.

People are different and complex there is no answer for all, the best we can do is to try and make the best of what resources we have whether it be spiritually or physically.

Peace

Originally posted by Perplexity
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

Anti-pharmaceutical site? How would they profit from people not listening to doctors? Explain.

Well make a baseless accusation and get one back

And there is no connection between the H1N1 vaccine and depression, the connection is doing everything TPTB tells you to do : Listen to your doctor, take a dose of this, a dose of that, and a pinch of this and you will rid yourself of restless leg syndrome, etc etc.

1. The H1NI is a vaccine, anti-depressants target an exisiting problem
2. I saw three doctors, as I said in the OP, and in other posts, and as many other people have said, its beneficial to see more than one doctor
3. I had 5 years before I decided to get external help, not exactly following doctors orders for a long period of time

And you didn't address my main point here. I'm sorry somebody you knew hung himself, but anti-depressants are frequently being noted as inducing thoughts of suicide to people who take them. That was my main argument.

He took them for a fortnight and hung himself 4 months afterwards. Hardly enought time for the medication to even register in his system or make changes to how his body works. As I said beofe it wasnt until 3 weeks to a month that they actually start having an effect. Unfortunantly he was one of those people who was succeptible to believing everything they read on the internet....and sadly he payed with his life

Originally posted by LestatG
People are different and complex there is no answer for all, the best we can do is to try and make the best of what resources we have whether it be spiritually or physically.

Agree 1,000,000,000%

...it certainly doesn't help to berate people for the choices they make or the paths they take to achieve their own wellness.

We may have walked within similar shoes as the next guy - but his/her shoes are his/hers...yours are yours...there is always some difference, even if its just a different type of foot odour...

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
He took them for a fortnight and hung himself 4 months afterwards. Hardly enought time for the medication to even register in his system or make changes to how his body works. As I said beofe it wasnt until 3 weeks to a month that they actually start having an effect. Unfortunantly he was one of those people who was succeptible to believing everything they read on the internet....and sadly he payed with his life

Sad indeed. You are missing my points on so many levels though I think I will refrain from posting. I wasn't saying anti-depressants made him hang himself, I was saying that as a whole, anti-depressants are notorious for giving the patient frequent thoughts of suicide.

If he believed everything he read on the internet than it is doubly sad it cost him his life. Nothing should be taken as fact unless you sit down and do the research yourself. Most adults know this.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Perplexity]

Originally posted by alien

Originally posted by LestatG
People are different and complex there is no answer for all, the best we can do is to try and make the best of what resources we have whether it be spiritually or physically.

We may have walked within similar shoes as the next guy - but his/her shoes are his/hers...yours are yours...there is always some difference, even if its just a different type of foot odour...

I love that metaphor, it really sums up what it is all about, I cant add much more, just to say that it was well put. (different foot odour, great stuff).

[edit on 22/2/2010 by LestatG]

Originally posted by Perplexity
[If he believed everything he read on the internet than it is doubly sad it cost him his life. Nothing should be taken as fact unless you sit down and do the research yourself. Most adults know this.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Perplexity]

Exactly the point of this entire thread!!!!!!!

This is why people shouldnt be advising people on boards or the internet, which is why I started this thread. I have seen it numerous times in my time here, and some people are gullible or more inclined to believe boards over proffesionals, due to personal beliefs or other factors.

should be skeptical of anything that takes over a month to start working.

hell, ive had placebos kick in much faster.

Originally posted by LurkerMan
should be skeptical of anything that takes over a month to start working.

hell, ive had placebos kick in much faster.

It changes your hormonal balance. Anyone that thinks after 5 years of someone suffering depression, that person can be cured by simply taking on tablet, is clearly misguided in what depression is

Just a couple of quick thoughts...

The incidence of depression has seemed to grow drastically over the years. I remember hearing a controversy over Prosac. It was said that Prosac is necessary to cure the mental illness/disorder that is ultimately cause by using Sweet n Low.
Donald Rumsfeld at one time owned major shares of both products manufacture, Sweet n Low as well as the makers of Prosac.
It was compared to the cigarette manufacturers owning the distribution rights to cigarette cessation products.

When did we start to see ads for drugs on television? Was it in the 80's
I remember when you had to "ask your doctor" to learn about a new drug.
And the doctors office is where this choice belongs.

As soon as they came out with children Tylenol I knew there was no stopping the reach of the pharmaceutical companies and their lunge for profits no matter what the cost.

Studies in subliminal advertising techniques find that creating animated cartoon characters, to represent drugs endears them to people making them seem much less threatening.



[edit on 22-2-2010 by rusethorcain]

reply to post by (C2C)


Apparently, for Depression, Suicidall Thoughts, giving up drugs and alcohol...high levels on Niacin also known as vitamin B3 brings amazing results...but of course pharmaceuticals will not want you to know these things...even though it has been successfully tested. Even the guy who wrote the BOOK (AA) had it recommended by a friend Dr. and wanted to introduce it at AA meetings...I say...know your vitamins and herbs, they are a lot better than what many companies would want you to believe...

I have battled with depression,ADHD,anxiety, and dress for most of my life, before i took any medicine it was terrible, I lost job after job, could not keep a relationship or friends, and did horrible in school, I was almost ready to end it all, instead I went to the doctor, got on some medication, , my whole world changed I went to college and graduated I'm now married, and I feel free, so people stop telling others what to stop taking their meds, you have no clue, even if you have done research, back off, meds are a godsend for many people they were for me

reply to post by l neXus l


I am very glad to see yet another person who has had their life drastically altered for the better because of the available medications.

For all of the people relating stories about how someone they knew was harmed by the medications i will say two things. Sometimes people have bad reactions to medications, this doesn't mean the medications are bad and should be banned it was just an unfortunate consequence. For every person they harmed 10 can be saved. Also how do you know it was the medication? Maybe the medication wasn't working very well and their depression just finally overcame them. Medications have to be adjusted slowly and the time it takes can be to much for some. This is why some people are commited while their medications are sorted out.

As for those using medications being weak willed, that s a dispicable thing to say. If you have a terrible chemical imbalance then you can't just wish it better or alter it. It's like saying you are able to control exactly how much adrenaline your adrenal glands release or how much testosterone your testes release.

Some people overcome depression with willpower, but that is psychological depression, something which can be fixed with councilling, det, exercise, life changes. It is not the same as depression whos root cause is a chemical imbalance. People can have a fantastic life, everything seems great and balanced and turned out just like they wanted and yet they fall into a pit of depression. We have heard from several people in this thread alone who have related such experiences.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

I'm new here, longtime lurker and I know the drill. I hope I do not insult anyone with my thoughts here, I do have some very strong thoughts on this issue.

Let me state that I do believe that some people do have chemical imbalances in the brain which lead to depression. And for this perhaps medication is warranted.

However - my understanding is that people with this chemical imbalance comprise apx 1 or 2% of the population. The number is extremely low.

So why is it that so many people are taking these pills? I'd guess at least 20% of the (US) population is on these anti depressants.

And these are the people who I would tell not to take them. Sure you very well might be depressed - life is not always a picnic - but you're not necessarily chemically imbalanced.

And do they test for this imbalance? I've never heard of anyone on these pills going for a test first. The pills are simply passed out.

I've dealt with a number of pill heads and in my opinion these drugs make a bad situation worse. The people on this stuff act the same way as those who have been in prison. One minute fine - the next minute like they're going to snap.

I was stalked by one of these pill heads for years. Nothing but a weak minded person who chose to be weak and act the victim. It was blatantly obvious, everyone said the same thing.

This guy tossed down any and every anti depressant, mixed with mood stabilizers, pain killers - to speak to him you'd think you were talking to someone blind stinking drunk.

He became incoherent, psychotic, delusional, and violent while on these various pill cocktails.

And what of MY rights? Why was this chemical Frankenstein allowed to harass me?

How about Andrea Yates? This woman systematically drowned her 5 children while wasted on these pills.

WHY did this incident alone not cause these drugs to be yanked?

I used to take herbal Ephedrine for allergies. Some high school football player dropped dead while on this stuff and it was immediately outlawed. This kid had a heart condition, OK? There was no reason to outlaw Ephedrine.

But when you have clear evidence of these anti depressants making people violent - why aren't THEY outlawed? What do you think Andrea Yates' children would have to say about that?

Consider how many news stories you hear of people going berserk, shooting up stuff, murder, etc - think of how many of these people have been on these pills.

This is not good stuff. Its just my opinion and I don't mean to tell anyone what to do - I wouldn't for any subject anyway - but I do think this stuff is garbage and if it's of any use at all - just for a minute group of people.

And these pill poppers - OK - they are driving cars. I know that some of this stuff does indeed make you feel 'wasted'. Xanax as example. I can only guess what the exotic "cocktails" make you feel like. So these people are driving around on this stuff, they're at the workplace on this stuff...

I really don't get it. You can practically be arrested for smoking a cigarette - but people can go about wasted on pills?

What about US that have to DEAL WITH you people?

You're easily spotted also - nervous ticks, incoherent speech, alternating with periods of dazed blankness. Effects eerily similar to the behavior of a PCP addict.

I will admit I do preach at people to get OFF this crap. But - that's up to the individual.

I met a guy the other day - I overheard him talking about "Seasonal Affective Disorder". That alone turned me off the guy - he might be a pill head and I absolutely cannot deal with these people. Sigh. He's cute too. Pity.

Ah well, just some thoughts. By no means a lecture towards anyone personally. Whatever you gotta do to get through is what I say.

Originally posted by Whiffer Nippets
However - my understanding is that people with this chemical imbalance comprise apx 1 or 2% of the population. The number is extremely low.

Do you have a source for that or is this personal speculation?

And do they test for this imbalance? I've never heard of anyone on these pills going for a test first. The pills are simply passed out.

Not sure where you have that idea from. Not sure if you saw before, but personally I had to see 3 doctors and do 2 questionnaires before i was prescribed anything. They dont just hand out pills here

I've dealt with a number of pill heads and in my opinion these drugs make a bad situation worse. The people on this stuff act the same way as those who have been in prison. One minute fine - the next minute like they're going to snap.

Never happened to me....but you may be refering to those who are prescribed the pills for nothing

And what of MY rights? Why was this chemical Frankenstein allowed to harass me?

Did you call the cops? And are you 100% sure that the pills and not his illness were responsible for this?

And these pill poppers - OK - they are driving cars. I know that some of this stuff does indeed make you feel 'wasted'. Xanax as example. I can only guess what the exotic "cocktails" make you feel like. So these people are driving around on this stuff, they're at the workplace on this stuff...

Sorry, are you refering to all of us that have had to use medication, or those who are unneccesarily using it?

You're easily spotted also - nervous ticks, incoherent speech, alternating with periods of dazed blankness. Effects eerily similar to the behavior of a PCP addict.

Sorry again, all of us, or just the abusers?

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Sorry if anything I say here has already been said. I have to tell you how wrong you are. Modern medicine is poison!! I'm glad you got over you depression as someone else who has suffered with the same syndrome. A few years ago I attempted suicide. I was given Celexa in the hospital before they would even repair the damage I had done to myself. That lasted about of week of feeling sick and jittery before I quit taking it. Then I tried effexor which was totally weird feeling. Then I took Lexapro for about a month. The lexapro did seem to make me feel better without too many side effects beside possibly making me psychotic. I had some pretty off the wall thoughts that were not like me. Because of that, and because it did make me sleepy and caused me to lose my job in the long run despite them knowing I was having this issue with the medication, I ceased taking this medication. I still suffered with my depression after this for a bit until I started making some significant changes in my life like moving to a more opportunistic area. I also took to heart some things my therapist had told me about my situation that helped put things into a better perspective for me to be able to get past a lot of the emotional stress that was holding me down. I no longer feel this way anymore and have a much more positive outlook on things.

Most likely what helped you the most was therapy and the decisions you made because of it, and possibly the placebo effect of the anti-depressants. Having taken this medication (unfortunately... nothing is really extensively tested before the FDA approves it, not to mention the trials are almost always conducted by the people who manufactured it) I know that the chemical "balance" created by these drugs was not natural and thus could not have been the state my consciousness or anyone else's for that matter should be in.

I have spent way more time researching natural medicines and big pharma to know that almost anything they could give you is poorly tested unless it's been in circulation for at least a decade or two. Next time you see a class action lawsuit commercial on TV because some one was given a drug during birth or for pain and they all have caught some disease now, or their kids have birth defects you will open your eyes. I also have gotten a lot of my information from a professional. Most professionals will not tell you these things because they're forced to comply to a system that does not work or they loose their license. Then all the time and money spent on their education would be for naught.

Now please. STOP TELLING PEOPLE TO POISON THEMSELVES!!

Originally posted by haplo

Now please. STOP TELLING PEOPLE TO POISON THEMSELVES!!

IAM NOT TELLING PEOPLE TO POISON THEMSELVES NOR AM I RECOMMENDING PEOPLE USE MEDICATION

Read the friggin OP again

I have never said anywhere in the thread that people should take medication, so come back when you actually understand the point of this thread