Eating Alices Cookie didnt take me to Wonderland. Stop telling people to avoid medication!!!

Pharmaceutical medication is TRASH. I've seen it make people sick, i've seen it kill people. The only way to health is ATTITUDE, that's why placebos always work for people with good attitudes and never work for people with poor attitudes. You can't regulate the hormones in your brain OP!? Bull, total and absolute bull you had a bad attitude and used doctors as a crutch - a sign of mental WEAKNESS.

Originally posted by PapaKrok

One thing to keep in mind: (as per my personal observation) most cases of mental illness involve some kind of illegal drug or alcohol use. It appears, at an alarming rate, as a concurrent diagnosis. Are you drinking too much or hitting the bong? That is “self medication” and has some pretty serious implications for your mental health as well. You should be concerned…
www.webmd.com...


Do what is right for you. It’s your body. Your mind. Your life.

first of all, theres no "alarming rate of concurrent diagnosis" of poeple with mental illness's due to "hitting the bong". most if not all are from illigal and legal stimulants.

matter of fact there's never once been a case of any mental illness developing due to marijuana smoking. its actually quite the opposite i know several poeple including myself who are prescribed cannabis FOR mental illness's. (yes im talking schizophrenia and the like).

i dont mean to be defensive but its comments like this that dont help our legal-case. which will in the end help alot of poeple. another thing is you shouldnt assume that just because where you live something is "illigal" that somewhere else in the world it might be a completely difference scenario.



maybe a better phrase would have been "hitting the crack pipe". Bongs are ironically one of the healthier means of smoking.

Originally posted by KyleOrtonArmy
The only way to health is ATTITUDE, that's why placebos always work for people with good attitudes and never work for people with poor attitudes. You can't regulate the hormones in your brain OP!? Bull, total and absolute bull you had a bad attitude and used doctors as a crutch - a sign of mental WEAKNESS.

Ok, edited as its not worth arguing with this personal attack

[edit on 22/2/2010 by OzWeatherman]

The OP's point is valid. There are too many armchair doctors here. Leave that to the REAL doctors. I've had 2 seperate experiences within the last year. I've been on anti-depressants for about a year now and I'm a helluva lot better than I was. Next, after blood tests recently she said I had to go on a med for high cholesteral. Huh? That didn't jibe with my diet. I ask my specialist about this and he said my readings were perfect. Needless to say I didn't fill this prescription. BUT that was on the word of a medical practitioner.

reply to post by LurkerMan


Here is the link www.procon.org...

Marijuana Compound Spurs Brain Cell Growth.
by Alan Moses for FORBES MAGAZINE 10/13/05

Originally posted by Blaine91555
One thing for sure is that many are practicing medicine without a license on the Internet. They should be held liable for any damages that result from their giving of medical advice, including death.

If you give medical advice you should all be held fully liable for the results. An MD is held liable, you should be also.

Every time anyone on the Internet gives medical advise, you should also give your full name and location so people know who to blame and who to sue if you are wrong. Anyone not doing so is a fraud and a phony and should never be trusted.

Thanks for the advice. I'll put it to use. Please post a name and address, in case your advice doesn't work for me and I need to sue. Thanks again.

Originally posted by LurkerMan
The vaults of Erowid is a good place to start for unbiased self-informing on this subject.


www.erowid.org

youll get a real breakdown of both natural and synthetic drugs.

legal quasi and illegit.

Absolutely! Erowid.com is a brilliant source chock full of un-biased info

Originally posted by KyleOrtonArmy
Pharmaceutical medication is TRASH. I've seen it make people sick, i've seen it kill people. The only way to health is ATTITUDE, that's why placebos always work for people with good attitudes and never work for people with poor attitudes. You can't regulate the hormones in your brain OP!? Bull, total and absolute bull you had a bad attitude and used doctors as a crutch - a sign of mental WEAKNESS.

Speaking of mental weakness, do you need a hug perhaps????

I would love to see your qualifications for giving the OP a diagnosis.

But then again, if the only way to health is ATTITUDE as you put it, you must be in very BAD health.

I quite agree that on a site like this, there should not be those who tell others to get off their meds as they don't have a clue other than what they read here of what is wrong with the poster they are referring to.

Originally posted by ManAnimal
reply to post by LiquidLight

 

So true.

Anyone who has had experience with either modern anti-depressants or ecstasy for that matter would never claim that they're the same thing or even produce close to the same effects.

and anybody who knows the mechanism of action for both or the pharmacology behind them will tell you...theres hardly a difference in how they work(the older ssri's). infact for a long time MDMA was a prescription antidepressent. untill it went schedule 1 in (1985? cant remember)

i dont think they were talking about the euphoria effect, thats simply your bodies reaction to the flood of seritonin. i think they were just refering to the effect's it has on the brain. its a very extreme comparison as the antidepressents arent dose'd for euphoria and Ecstasy pills are. typically if a medication produces euphoria it wont be on the top of the list for safest prescriptions due to abuse potential, this is why we are currently useing SSRI's and MAOI's as modern antidepressents rather than barbiturates like 30 years ago.

reply to post by rusethorcain


nice article.

notice it says "international researchers". because the Govt wont let us publish anything we find in american labs .

bah humbug.

Originally posted by Night Star
I have depression/anxiety and am on a medication for it. It does help.

The Proper Treatment for Depression

1. Eliminate toxic substances from your diet and environment.
A. Remove mercury fillings. This will help some but not all. Stop eating fish high in mercury,tuna fish,swordfish,shark,etc.
B. Eliminate Aluminum from your diet,aluminum pots,aluminum in baking powder used in foods,alum in pickles.Aluminum in deodorants.
C. No alcohol or tobacco
D. Food allergies and food additives can cause depression

2. Take mega doses of vitamins,especially the B vitamins

3. Vigorous exercise for 20 minutes will help some

4. Take anti-depressants as a last resort. They will NEVER CURE YOU of a depression that is caused by the above.

I suffered from severe depression caused by 18 mercury fillings for 40 years and was taking 3 different anti depressants at the same time. Within two weeks of having my mercury fillings removed I was able to stop taking the anti depressants and my health gradually improved.

Mercury is the most poisonous non radioactive element. Mercury and aluminum are both neurotoxins.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


I do understand your concern. But these people are making valid points.
Modern medication has just got totally out of control. Before I continue I should point out that I do have plenty of experience in this area. True I am not a qualified doctor of any kind. But if I were I wouldnt have such an open mind because I would be under the thumb of the drug companies myself. I have worked with and around the "professionals" for 30 years.
Medication is handed out by these people as requested by the reps. of the drug companies. Treating mental illness is just a series of experiments at the expense of the patient. If something seems to work the patient may be left on that medication for many years or untill the latest experimental drug is "pushed" by the company reps.
There is no real science in the treatment. Fact!
Your statement regarding hormone imbalance etc. is true up to a point but the real time effects on the patient when under medication cannot be measured. It is all guess work.
As I stated earlier I have been around these professionals and heard their conversations as they play with the lives of their patients.
They dont really care. It is not possible to care at the level you would hope because these people have lives of their own. They go home and forget about the patients. Only the patients and their families know the suffering that results from these experimental perscriptions.
There is far too much faith put in these new gods. Meaning the medical professionals. Especially in UK with our 3rd world National Health system.
Maybe if you are a millionaire with a private doctor and plenty of legal protection you might get a bit of respect.

Anyway in conclusion you cant trust doctors or the drugs they peddle.
The more intelligent people understand this the better

reply to post by Oz Weatherman



So bottom line here, is that i agree with getting help when needed, and yet i also feel strongly if at all possible get off the drugs as soon as possible, step down method worked great for me and that took about 4 months time.


[edit on 22-2-2010 by antar]

reply to post by intrepid


Lecithin pills 3X a day or even better if you can manage it - natural granules sprinkled over cereal (tasteless and bland) will lower your cholesterol all by itself.

My whole family takes it. My families doctor takes it after seeing the results on my sister, brother and mother. The discovery was too late to save my dad who was the cause for the search for answers.

It is a naturally occurring B vitamin, a bit waxy, bonds to the cholesterol and helps wash it away...it acts like Dawn dish soap does on grease. Very effectively.

Nature provides lecithin abundantly in WHOLE GRAINS which nature intended as a primary food source. Were this the case we would never have a problem with plaque or heart attacks but WHOLE GRAINS are no longer a primary food source for anyone. Lecithin is removed from the grain used in most breads and cereals and resold as vitamins. The lecithin added (so the label says enriched - a warning to put this product down) is not natural lecithin it is synthetic/man made lecithin which is only about half as effective as the real thing. It is returned to the grain, bread and cereal products that are meant for mass consumption in smaller quantities than are present in the unaltered grain and so is half again as effective.

Timed release niacin and oat bran help also.
Niacin causes blood to be forced through tiny capillaries quickly straightening out veins like unkinking a hose.
Because your body cannot fully break them down the oat bran acts like tiny cellulose scouring pads to scrub the waxy cholesterol buildup out of your veins. Sprinkle it on everything.

These measures will combat effects of a high saturated fat diet and lower cholesterol numbers very quickly (30 days) however combine them with a lower saturated fat diet and the cholesterol readings will continue to drop.

Tests fluctuate and "normal" varies from doctor to doctor so I hope you don't need to lower your cholesterol however it is almost a fact since our bodies produce it by themselves that unless you are on a wholistic macrobiotic diet (a cancer cure by the way - see Kushi Institute, MA) everyone does need or soon will need to lower their cholesterol.

-All the best and thanks for not attacking me for taking an opposite view in the first place - commendable, mature.

Peace

I want to touch on something else. I was one of those kids that was put on ritilin in the third grade and was on it until 7th grade. By the time I was finally taken off of it because it was ineffective (my parents didn't know what to do other than what the doctor suggested), I had developed sleeping problems from it. Over the next several years, I was put on numerous anti-depressants, most of which did nothing or made me feel like I wasn't myself. I can't explain it, but if I may borrow a lyric line from a Garbage song:

"If flesh could crawl, my skin would fall from off my bones and run away from here.. as far from God as heaven is wide."

That's what it felt like to be constantly on these prescription poisons. I wanted to take my skin off and run away. These drugs were doing things to me that were bad and my body was telling me to stop putting them in me. They ended up worsening my sleep problems and was put on another drug to help with that. It wasn't until I was 16, on Effexor and Nortriptyline (I think) and about to be put on something else that I decided I was done with this. It wasn't helping, made me feel like crap and was only giving me more problems. I stopped them cold turkey with no withdrawls and haven't looked back.

My personal conclusion is sort of on the level of being "weak" because in many ways, I was; too weak to face the problems that were causing it because it was much easier to just submit to them. I think what is happening is that throwing people on drugs is distancing people from their own internal ability to manage feelings. Instead, we are teaching our bodies that when we have a problem, we pop pills to deal with it. I've known several drug addicts, particularly with marijuana, who have developed this same thing. Problems? Let's get high. Feel angry? Let's get high. Feel sad? Let's pop some pills. Chemicals replace internally managing feelings and so people forget how to do that. Big pharma are just drug dealers on the comeback just like street dealers and no side effects or considerations for the well-being of the users will get in the way of that. I don't doubt that prescription drugs are necessary in some cases, but for God's sake, people need to get in touch with themselves more and less with taking drugs, illegal or otherwise to manage feelings. I, for one, will never allow myself to be put on prescription drugs again though I doubt I'll ever get the opportunity to refuse them again. I'm done for good.

This becomes more of a problem when the drugs stop working and you're left with no internal way to cope, so what happens? You do more drugs or you switch to another one. IMO, this is a dangerous course of action in many cases. Some people need medication, but not nearly as many that are currently on them.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Kratos1220]

Originally posted by Kratos1220
My personal conclusion is sort of on the level of being "weak" because in many ways, I was; too weak to face the problems that were causing it because it was much easier to just submit to them.

Thats fair enough if you have simply been thrown on them, but personally I tried to deal with it for 5 years alone, I did not want to submit initially, until I decided to get help. It doesnt sound like you needed Ritalin or anything (btw I disagree with the use of that) at all. It also seems like you were misdiagnosed as having depression too...

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Thats fair enough if you have simply been thrown on them, but personally I tried to deal with it for 5 years alone, I did not want to submit initially, until I decided to get help. It doesnt sound like you needed Ritalin or anything (btw I disagree with the use of that) at all. It also seems like you were misdiagnosed as having depression too...

Well, I am a trauma survivor, but you are right in the sense that most of the doctors I had been to only wanted to put me on medication and didn't seem to have any real interest in getting to the root of things. I had to do most of that myself though I am seeing a psychologist now which is helping with the things I couldn't quite get on top of by myself. It is a relief knowing that I don't have to worry about medications.

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Originally posted by Kratos1220

Well, I am a trauma survivor, but you are right in the sense that most of the doctors I had been to only wanted to put me on medication and didn't seem to have any real interest in getting to the root of things. I had to do most of that myself though I am seeing a psychologist now which is helping with the things I couldn't quite get on top of by myself. It is a relief knowing that I don't have to worry about medications.

Im glad its working out for you. Sorry you had a bad experience with it though, it must have been extremely difficult as a kid, having to take these things. I can completely understand your stance on it.

I had to accept I needed help after 5 years of avoiding the problem. I may have been lucky to have had a doctor that referred me to a specialist at the time. But like I said always get multiple opinions and I guess it does pay to be wary of pill happy docs. (after hearing your story)

Good luck with the psychologist, hope you get better soon

You have really given the hornets nest a good shake.

Current medical thinking is that "Current" and will change.

Just look at the medical advice on say when to wean babies onto solids in the last 40 years or how babies should eat. Remember in the 1960s, we babies were all like balloons as we were fed super fat milk at an early age. And lets not forget the encouragement of African babies onto marketed milk (as opposed to natural milk).

I have posted about recent research showing Calpol (junior paracetamol) seems to attack the nervous system and encourage asthma. So we may have a real cause for the massivbe increase in child asthma!

Don't you think people need to know about these things.

These type of changes are more clearly seen with babies, but don't you think that thinking on other drugs/treatment also go in circles even to "Drug up" or not to "drug up" will go in trends. Current medical ternde seems to be going towards some natural therapies e.g. get people to health clubs rather than give them drugs to lose weight.