Eating Alices Cookie didnt take me to Wonderland. Stop telling people to avoid medication!!!

Originally posted by nik1halo
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

You are right.

How many times have people on this thread alone stated that clinical depression (not just feeling low because of a crap life) is a MEDICAL CONDITION. It is not caused by spiritual problems. Councelling will not help on it's own, because councelling can only help the psychological problems, not the physical chemical imbalaces in the brain.

Now wait hang on. Some people can just go into therapy and be ok, even with very bad depression. However lots of them can't and i get annoyed when people say it's to do with willpower. I would say the ones who need the meds have more of a chemical imbalance. I'm not a doctor of course but that seems obvious.

Originally posted by nik1halo
I'll admit that exercise and proper diet will help with clinical depression, because the endirphines will help to rebalance the brain chemistry, but it is a quick fix and once the endorphine high wears off, you're right back to where you started.

Absolutely, eating well and exercising can help. I know doctors where i worked often told patients to give both of those things a go. They still medicated them though because they needed it. For things like depression the goal was often to ween them off the drugs slowly, but sometimes it wouldn't work.


[edit on 22-2-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
People on ATS are the worst kind of people to take advice from, as many of us are clouded by conspiracy theories involving "evil agendas" by pharmaceutical companies.

Yeah, but they're not really theories are they. I mean there has been enough evidence uncovered to prove that conspiracies involving "evil agendas" by pharmaceutical companies are in fact a reality.

For example:
www.ahrp.org...

I agree that telling somebody you know nothing about to not take their medication is not advisable because it is much more beneficial to instead advise people to do extensive independent research on the medication they have been prescribed along with an extensive background check of the manufacturer. That would be far more useful and more in keeping with how the people on ATS form their opinions.
I suspect that in the case of clinical depression, it could also be useful to suggest that somebody else could do the investigating on their behalf.

Hows that Oz..? Potentially good advice?

Originally posted by (C2C)
reply to post by ziggystar60

 

Shame on me lol. Whatever. You can say a depression is not a persons fault all you want, but i think it is a result of their own mind. You can turn it around at will and I have done it so I know this.

YOU can...doesn't mean everyone else can

Just because you pulled it off does not mean the rest will be able to

And to the poster who said Oz's depression wasn't hormonal...sorry were you the one doing the tests?

-Kyo

reply to post by OzWeatherman


I happen to have several friends who are doctors, one works at a VA, THEY state that THEY are only PRACTICING MEDICINE, they do not have all the answers. Doing ones own research is the best way, and FYI, MANY people back in the day would go to Native Americans and get the things they needed to heal themselves. Big Pharma is a joke and THAT is why people take their own lives, they were messed up BY the medical institutions!!!

Thank u for posting this. I've had ppl tell me I should take my son off of his medication bcuz 'it's poison', 'the docs are filling him full of meds he doesnt need, he can cure himself thru his own mind' 'Drugs are tested on animals and it's immoral for me to give them too my son'. This is maddening to me, Some ppl have no clue, some may never get it. My boy has Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia which is where his body doesnt make cortisol. He also has the salt losing form that screws up his whole system. Bcuz he has this he's on corticosteroids and florinef 3xs a day to regulate his system. If he were to stop taking his meds he would literally die within 3 days time. Please, please dont listen to those ppl who tell u u dont need meds. Would u not take medicine for diabetes if u needed too? How about bp meds? antibiotics? pain meds for cancer? or steroids after a transplant? These ppl have every right to live the way they see fit but dont push ur ridiculousness onto other ppl by acting like u know better than a parent or Doctor. It's irresponsible and could cause someone serious illness and maybe death. Thanks again for posting this.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Now wait hang on. Some people can just go into therapy and be ok, even with very bad depression. However lots of them can't and i get annoyed when people say it's to do with willpower. I would say the ones who need the meds have more of a chemical imbalance. I'm not a doctor of course but that seems obvious.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

"Clinical depression" is a chemical imbalance in the brain, not a psychological condition. If there is no imbalance, then that is simple depression - purely psychological with no physical cause.

Simple depression can be and should be treated mainly with therapy and councelling and anti-depressants used only in the most extreme cases.

Clinical depression requires drugs to restore the imbalance in the brain. Extended councelling is often not required at all in these cases, as simply restoring the balance solves all problems.

I had clinical depression; my life was going well, I had a good career, beautiful wife and daughter, absolutely nothing to be depressed about, so after starting to take the anti-depressants, I was fine and back to my normal self, no real councelling required and now I'm off the drugs and happy as larry!

reply to post by Demetre


Oh but don't you get it? Your son could heal himself by eating more green veg and sniffing clouds! I'm sorry to hear about your son and i'm glad modern medicine can keep him alive. I cannot believe people would advise you to take him off such important medication. I think it's all down to a real distrust in the pharmaceutical companies. Don't get me wrong i think lots of the things they do are bad, but the simple fact is they produce many drugs which save lifes.

You raise a good point. All these people who distrust the pharmaceutical industries should never take anything, including antibiotics. I'm sure some of them have never had to, they've been lucky but as they get older something may start to break down a little and i wonder if then they will start taking something when a doctor tells them they'll die if they don't.

Antibiotics, that's all that needs to be said really. These drugs are a true miracle and save millions of lives a year.

Originally posted by Banora_White

An obvious example is balancing the brain chemicals with someone with depression. It's not about "drugging you up"..it's about restoring your chemicals to the correct balance ideal to the bodies functioning.

Not really, it's about selling a product and making money. Legally, that is all it is allowed to be about. If it was about anything else, there would be lawsuits. Of course, that fact on its own doesn't necessarily have to mean that the product is not a good product...

reply to post by OzWeatherman


I understand some extreme situations may call for people to use medicine, but only because they don't know any better. Me personally, I used to have asthma bad, used inhalers all the time, always getting asthma attacks. It wasn't until I stopped using my inhaler, stopped listening to what the doctors were saying, and started doing what I wanted that I cured my asthma. What doctors were saying was I shouldn't run or be very active and always have my inhaler, but being active and not having my inhaler was the very thing that helped me get over asthma. By the way, what was it about life that had you depressed? and what is it about life that has changed?

reply to post by nik1halo


Thanks for the clarification i get what you mean now

So the drugs fixed your problem, you're now off them and everything is great............yet many people would have advised you to not take them and you may have ended up in an institution or dead. But no you made the wrong choice obviously lol.

I can't speak about anti-depressants, but I do have personal experience with mental health "professionals" and I have to say that I have NO trust in them whatsoever.

I'd never follow any of their instructions (at least the one's that I've dealt with) because they truly have no idea what they're talking about ... unless they're talking about jacking up a bill for an "illness" that never existed. I posted a thread about it a year or so ago. I won't go into details in this thread. Anyone can go back and read what I posted to find out the whole story, but I'll never trust doctors that same way.

In my experience, doctors have done what they can to bleed insurance carriers and jack up the cost of their services regardless of the health of the patient.

I understand some extreme situations may call for people to use medicine, but only because they don't know any better.

reply to post by agentofchaos


Right. Diabetics....throw away your insulin.

High blood pressure.....throw away your lipitor.

Cancer......throw away your chemotherapy.

depression.....toss that prozac out the window.


I agree with some posts on this thread. Some people do see medication as a quick fix, or use it as a band-aid to cover up problems. I've worked in pharmacy for years, seen lots of people who were prescribed dozens of medicines.....I get the arguments.

But the fact of the matter is....some medicine is helpful. Some is essential. And the average layperson cannot possibly advise a person whether he or she should take that medicine.

Having said that, if medication troubles you.....get multiple opinions. Be your own advocate. Do the research, see what (if any) alternative options are available to you. But don't blindly state that all medicines are bad, or that the power of the mind can cure every illness.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Exactly my point my friend. My life was spiralling out of control and I simply couldn't understand why. I nearly lost my job and my family and probably would have lost my life, all for the need of 6 months supply of fluoxitine.

But obviously I was wrong to see my doctor and all I really needed was a good chat and a cuppa tea and to "pull myself together"

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Thank U! He was 3 wks old when he was diagnosed which was 13 yrs ago so he's really doing excellent. His body makes more testosterone which has caused him to go into early puberty. Hes the only kid in his grade that can have a full on beard. 'All the chics like it' he said. He's workin' it..so funny.

I believe medication has its place. I tend to avoid it when i can, partly due to my work as a holistic therapist, i try to find more natural ways to heal myself. Having said that i dont discount my doctors opinion and would take medication if urgently required.

I was once on anti-depressants for a time, not long actually, maybe 2 months, i asked my doctor how long i would need to take them and he said, as long as it takes for the circumstances in my life to change, usually 6 months to a year he said. I wondered about that for a while, quite a statement considering depression is meant to be a chemical imbalance.

On a side note, I work for 2 doctors. They have both told me that they have given out and still do give out placebo's. They find it amazing when people come back feeling better, unaware they have taken nothing. They also said that cancer and aids can be cured but never will as there is far too much money being made through these diseases.

I find it all leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

Peace

Great thread OZ. I agree 100%... I was wary of taking such mediation but after a few years I finally bit the bullet and took them and it’s the best thing I have done in a long, long time. I am back to my normal happy self and enjoying life again.

Before I took the medication I truly believed it wouldn’t help only make me worse. I use to troll through the internet looking for what users had to say about taking such drugs, unfortunately there's a lot of bad things written about it, but there's good stuff too (think positive ppl). I realize now not to listen to such damming statements and instead try the mediation for a month or so. If it works great if not go see your GP again and something can be worked out and I promise you won’t lose your mind, or become enrolled in a dumbing down programme run by world governments in conjunction with various pharmaceutical companies.

Remember if the powers that be wont to rid us, especially since the world’s population is now at an all time high, how come all these new mediations actually allow us to live longer than we have ever lived before. Think about it people....

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Haven't read all the replies, just wanted to reply back to the OP.

I half-way agree with you and half-way agree with the second post on this thread. I often find that a balance on certain issues is the best way to proceed. The first thing that came to my mind was the church of scientology when you mentioned people halting their medications based on the opinions/demands of other people who are completely unqualified for the job. They have caused the deaths of thousands either because they stopped taking their anti-depressants or insulin, etc.

Most of us are unqualified for giving out medical advice. But many of us have also been the victims of misdiagnosis of those same professionals who are supposed to know what they are doing. I've had 2 knee surgeries that resulted of a misdiagnosis, and my brother almost died from a ruptured appendix (it had been ruptured 5 days, its amazing he lived) because the doctor diagnosed it as constipation. I've also had numerous anti-inflamitory and pain meds recalled because they were causing heart failure, liver problems, you name it. I had stopped taking them before the recall anyway though as I had noticed no improvement what-so-ever.

My grandmother used to have diabetes and took a good 20 pills or so a day just to "survive." Now that she lost a good 120 lbs. or so she is down to pretty much taking a vitamin and watching her blood sugar without having much trouble. People need to stop looking for the "miracle pill" and "quick fix" that will turn their life around. In reality they keep them prisoners in some cases. Not all though!

My distrust of doctors and meds is for good reason, and that's without having to do research on them which would make my distrust all the greater I am sure. That being my opinion however, I also recognize that medicine can also save lives. My views pretty much come down to this:

God created us to be able to survive in a world where injury and sickness are rampant. Let your body do it's thing unless it's losing the battle on its own. When all else fails, resort to medicine, and as little of it as possible.

I want to agree with both sides on this matter...


My parents both have 4 year degrees in Acupuncture, My mother is also a reflexologist and my Father studied in China as a praticioner of Qigong(energy moving, along with 4 years in medical and rehabilitation massage therapies. I can tell you that at no time would my parents ever tell someone to get off there medications, and they see people on all types of medicines all the time. The reason they would never do this is because number one, it is illegal to do so, but also it is wrong lead people to descisions that they themselves have not come to on their own.


With that being said I can say that many times the problems that my parents treat are from bad diagnosis and over medication which have actually not only introduced new problems into the patients life but usually made the originally problem in many cases far worse. If you read the little slip of paper that comes with whatever medication your taking, you will find some very disturbing things about the side-effects.

Western medice such as we have here in the US is very much like our society as a whole. We usually want quicker fixes for our problems than our bodies require. Western medicne rarely addresses the cause for such issues with us, instead, in many cases it exploits them. Only slowly now are many people waking up to this pill for everthing culture and starting to listen again once again to their bodies.

Most health professionals (doctors and such) are probablly not sitting around saying how can we destroy and exploit human suffering today and make a buck. Many are just untrained these days in listening to their own intuitions and tend to prescribe as if stabbing in the dark until something alleviates a symptom for a patient.

On the other hand higher ups in the pharma industry are business men and women and many of their descisions I feel are not with your best interests at heart. The reason why we rarely if ever these days cure anything is that curing a human ailment takes power and money away from certain sectors of society which benefit from that ailment.

Example: Anyone care to venture a guess at the money and number of jobs that are created because of diseases, and mental problems ect..Lets just take Aids or Cancer or Muscular Dystrophy how many people are employed by charities and medical research because these problems exist, and how much money do think these diseases command? Is it any wonder that many of these diseases remain so long without cures? Just things to think about.

How many industries would kill to have a client base which was dependant on there goods, services or products until the day they die. We in America I feel have become a harvestable resource, a renewable resource if you will to the Pharma industry-They test their products on the public and then wait with plenty of money on hand for the lawsuits which will inevitably come and it does not phase them one bit. If they can get you on one product that gives you another symptom as well even better, because now they have something for that too so don't worry.

My parents tell people to read the warning information that comes with their presciptions, some people they treat are taking between 10 and twenty medications. My parents give their clients treatment and most times their clients figure out on their own that their being posioned in many cases, but that is for them to decide along with their doctor and not something that another person should lead them into. The person themselves has to come to their own conclusions and without excuse, justification or prejudice evaluate what they are taking into their bodies. Almost every day my parents have atleast one person if not more who the medical community has no answers for and has simply medicated them into oblivion and within one hour long session a resurgance of life begins again. Its amazing how resilent our bodies are and how they cry out for true healing and answers