Fox News Sunday - Mitch McConnell Manipulates on the Public Option

On Fox News Sunday just now (2/21), Chris Wallace asked Mitch McConnell to respond to the re-birth of the Public option given the Democratic Senators that have signed on to passing it using Reconciliation, claiming that there is "strong bi-partisan opposition" to a public option, and further stating that:

"We know where the American people are on the bills the House and Senate passed..."

Small problem with this statement, yet completely in line with the deceptive tactics the Right has employed on manipulating the American people.

McConnell tries a "switcheroo" in his statement. When asked about the Public option, which recent polls still show wide public support, McConnell instead begins talking about opposition to the health reform bills in Congress, neither of which propose a public option.

What a liar....

Whether you are a Rightie, Middle, or Leftie, your intelligence should be seriously insulted right now...

This is a continuation of the deceptive tactics to brand the current bills in Congress as a "Government Take-over of Healthcare," even though the "Take-over" part was negotiated away by Obama long before a single negotiation was held.

As the matter of fact, those same polls do in fact show opposition to the current bills in Congress, but not for the reasons the Republicans are trying to claim credit for.

The American people oppose those bills because they do not have a public option, not because they fail to address the empty and inconsequential suggestions of the Right.

I know you on the Right have a ton of bad things to say about the public option. Let's not re-hash them in this thread. Instead, help me understand how those of you with integrity can support liars and manipulators like McConnell, and how you can live with yourselves electing him to the Senate over and over again? Is it because he happens to be lying for your team that you can stand it?

I'm also not interested in justifications about the handful of Democrats that oppose the public option. I get that they're spineless. I'm interested in a response to the clear manipulation by a major party leader, and the decisions by his constituent's to just take it.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by tommy_boy
I know you on the Right have a ton of bad things to say about the public option. Let's not re-hash them in this thread. Instead, help me understand how those of you with integrity can support liars and manipulators like McConnell, and how you can live with yourselves electing him to the Senate over and over again? Is it because he happens to be lying for your team that you can stand it?

I'm also not interested in justifications about the handful of Democrats that oppose the public option. I get that they're spineless. I'm interested in a response to the clear manipulation by a major party leader, and the decisions by his constituent's to just take it.

Thoughts?

Why bother helping you understand anything??? You apparently have solidified your "understanding" of the issues as you see them as evidenced in your post above. This is nothing more than another trolling trap with just enough bait to get the ignorant to enter into a lop-sides "debate".

No thanks, I'll pass - on this thread AND the public option!!!

reply to post by tommy_boy


I have been hard pressed to find polls that back your claim of 'wide public support'. Also keep in mind what the poll is asking, how it is asking it and the demographics of the people asked.

So please, if you have readily available sources that show this wide support it would be appreciated.

I absolutely agree with you! S+F

People are not mad because government is doing WAY too much, it's because they are not doing enough. People want to see an effective government, they don't want corporate health insurance to be forced upon them. 'Either you buy corporate insurance or you're in trouble'. That is pissing people off, I guarantee if Congress finalized a bill with a robust public option that would not break the tax payers backs(which it wouldn't) there would be strong support for it in the polls. I believe that is what we are looking at here, we all know this bipartisan talk is a trap against the republicans so the american people can see what kind of snakes they are. If Obama passes a public option even with the 51 vote system we will not see a landslide for republicans in november. This healthcare is killing the democrats, they have moved center since they have been elected and it is pissing Americans off. Just look at the polls, more Americans believe democrats and obama are trying to be bipartasin much more than the republicans and this health care debate will finalize that! If Democrats turn to the left like they were elected to we will see the democrats hold steady in november, if they continue to the center it will be a republican landslide.

reply to post by Misoir


Dude... you're dreaming! I sincerely hope that the Democrats do move left - WAY left!!! With the Republicans already leaning WAY right -a third party would be shoe-in and we could finally rid ourselves of these posers!

There is no doubt in my mind that the partisans are not fooling anyone except themselves - keep up the good work!

Ok just a few points for you.

1. Both sides are guilty of spinning information to support their side. Even you admitted that those in favor of a public option spun information to support their case.

2. THIS NATION CANNOT AFFORD A PUBLIC OPTION. We have two limited public options now, Medicare and Medicaid. They are both bankrupt and a huge economic burden for a country that is 14 trillon dollars in debt.

3. No one who supports a public option can come up with a realistic, sustainable way to pay for it in the long run.

4. Many doctors won't even take Medicaid patients because they are not reimbursed enough for the effort of taking care of them.

5. Raising taxes to pay for more people to have healthcare will just further injure an already seriously damaged economy.

6. When you get the governments in this country to balance their budgets and find away to pay for a public option, without raising taxes, then you can have a public healthcare option.

When you and your family have a mountain of debt do you go to your neighbors and tell them you will pay for their healthcare premiums with your credit card?

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Sunchine]

reply to post by Misoir


I hope the Dems go more left. Not sure how Obama could get more left without pulling out the old USSR flag, but let him try. People do not like these Progressive policies that are bankrupting the nation. So let them go left and get slaughtered in the next election when people will be even more pissed with more government intrusion into their lives and much higher taxes to pay for everyone else.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Sunchine]

reply to post by kozmo


Pretty arrogant of you, Kozmo.

It's a pretty legitimate criticism. Don't bother explaining it to me, then, if you don't know the answer, but if it's trolling to call out blatant hypocrisy, then I'm guilty. You can't change the system unless you weed out the liars. Isn't that really what I'm asking? For people that support this rhetoric to either own or disown their leaders? This is no different than those that bash Obama for being to conciliatory.

I gave you a quote, and I exposed his spin. Where's the problem again?

But again, hide behind your partisan hat. I'm simply calling out a lie that JUST happened.

Feel free to pass, Kozmo. I'm looking for legit responses to this, not arrogant haters that can't stand criticism of his party or his leaders. People that jump on things like this aggressively like you did usually turn out to be the most partisan anyway.

Your question about how can someone support a liar like McConnell can be answered by saying that if you call anyone who spins a liar and they should not be supported then how do you support liars and spinners like Obama, Pelosi, and Reid, ETC!

reply to post by ownbestenemy


Thanks, ownbestenemy, for at productive comment, unlike kozmo, who just likes to call dissenters Political Trolls.

I have more recent ones, which I will post shortly, but here's an article from late 2009 that somewhat shows more people being "for" more of a public option rather than what Congress and the WH has tried to pass. More to come...


Washington Post

Originally posted by Mr Sunchine
reply to post by Misoir

 

I hope the Dems go more left. Not sure how Obama could get more left without pulling out the old USSR flag, but let him try. People do not like these Progressive policies that are bankrupting the nation. So let them go left and get slaughtered in the next election when people will be even more pissed with more government intrusion into their lives and much higher taxes to pay for everyone else.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Sunchine]

God knows we the democrats are intruding into personal lives, that is what the Republicans do don't get confused. That is all the right is about, intruding into the bedroom to force their stupid jesus bull # onto all of us. They want to restrict people's behavior to fit that of their stupid bible! The democrats aren't on the left, they are for too far to the left for those stupid americans who think anything other than redirecting wealth to coroporations, basing society on religion, and building a huge military to overthrow other countries against their will is too far to the left. I guess if you don't strongly support any of that you are a soviet communist. Stupid trash talking, that's all this is!

reply to post by Mr Sunchine


That's actually not an answer, Sunchine. The "Everyone does it" argument doesn't fly. I'm happy to either agree with or rebut Pelosi/Obama lies in another thread. I'm asking how can Righties support a liar? Or is it OK to lie and manipulate so long as it confirms with one's own beliefs?

Thus far, all attackers have only attacked my motives and the system, but have given McConnell a free pass. Not a good sign for us as American citizens.

I guess lying and deception is OK for you public option opponents so long as you get your way eh? Doesn't bode well for our system.

reply to post by Misoir

God knows we the democrats are intruding into personal lives

Couldn't agree more with your opening sentence. I do agree with our premise that both sides of government want to interfere in our lives too much and redistribute our wealth to others be it the poor or corps. Neither should be handed the resources our government steals from our paychecks.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Sunchine]

reply to post by tommy_boy

Or is it OK to lie and manipulate so long as it confirms with one's own beliefs?

I guess you need to answer that for yourself. You seem to support those behind a public option who are just as guilty as spinning and lying as McConnell. So I ask you is it ok to support those like Obama, Pelosi, and Reid who lie and spin?

I guess to address your issue. Yes McConell is just as guilty as Obama, Pelosi, and Reid as spinning and lying. I guess he is just as guilty as every other politician.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Sunchine]

reply to post by Mr Sunchine


You took that line out of context, that was sarcasm. If I had to choose between intruders into my wallet or intruders into my personal life I would choose my wallet, atleast they are helping the needy with that money! I say since neither side can come to an agreement, give it back to that states and make the federal government like it was constitutionally supposed to be, this way neither democrats nor republicans can push force their views on every person in our country. Democrats will have the northeast, great lakes and west coast; Republicans will have the southeast, great plains and rocky mountain west. We all win!

Originally posted by Mr Sunchine
reply to post by tommy_boy

 

Or is it OK to lie and manipulate so long as it confirms with one's own beliefs?

I guess you need to answer that for yourself. You seem to support those behind a public option who are just as guilty as spinning and lying as McConnell. So I ask you is it ok to support those like Obama, Pelosi, and Reid who lie and spin?

I guess to address your issue. Yes McConell is just as guilty as Obama, Pelosi, and Reid as spinning and lying. I guess he is just as guilty as every other politician.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Sunchine]

Fair enough, Sunchine. Thank you

Yes, I am for a public option for the record.

And I'm happy to state an opinion on specific lies by Obama (I'm not so much a Pelosi supporter). If there's a thread that has any of these, I'd be happy to read and comment.

reply to post by Misoir


Look the truth is both sides intrude into your wallet and your personal life. I agree with you that we should give power back to the states and limit the federal government down to what its true intention was when the Constitution was written.

reply to post by tommy_boy


Riddle me this, Batman. How are we going to pay for a public option and keep medicare and medicaid solvent for the next 25 years without a massive tax hike?

How is it that evey hospital claims it is on the verge of bankruptcy while they keep adding new buildings and amenities and every doctor claims he can barely pay for his McMansion and his new Beemer?

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Sunchine]

reply to post by Mr Sunchine


You are right they are both guilty of the same things. It's just the difference in who they want to bow down to, the poor or corporations.

reply to post by Mr Sunchine


But before we can do that, there needs to be a revolt against this type of disingenuous handling of the American people.

We need to call our officials out on bold and blatant untruths, regardless of party. Vigorous disagreements are fine, but guys, we've allowed our elected officials to make up their own realities.

Another case in point: The Republican talking point that the Recovery Act has not created a single job. That's a manipulation. Of course it's created or (to use a bad word) "saved" jobs. What it hasn't done is created more jobs than the recession is losing each month. But before there can be net job creation, there needs to be a deceleration in job loss. The Stimulus, arguments on price tag aside, has accomplished this.

More more (I'm on a roll): Earmarks in the stimulus.

THERE WEREN'T ANY!!!

But there were a TON from both sides of the aisle in the Omnibus bill.

Yet every Republican with a microphone in their face proclaimed the Stimulus Bill as filled with pork and, therefore, a major spending failure.

This is the stuff that should insult our intelligence.

If you believe the Public Option is bad, GREAT! Tell why and give facts.

Same on the Stimulus.

Same on the Obama Administration.