The importance of identity secrecy when TSHTF

Excellent idea for sure to what-if the scenario of a roadblock and add in limited armaments. Unfortunately I see very few positive outcomes to this based on what information has been given. Chances are very high that the person sent forward to the opposing force as an arbiter will likely either be taken hostage and/or killed if they don't believe the bluff about being surrounded by a superior force. Its not overly likely that they will if they have any sense because what superior force is going to be carting around an unarmed old man?

The real lesson I think to be learned here is to regard every hill as an ambush in a SHTF scenario, because if you don't you won't be crossing many hills. Ideally you should have a scout glass the area before your group moves up the hill, that way in the event of an ambush being prepped at the bottom you can turn around and either go around or wait till night to remove the opposing force.

Maybe you send grandpa up to say he is with the supply trucks that are supposed to be there on time ,and how he cant figure out why they didnt read the map the same as he did,and now his dam truck is broke and he aint no mechanic,nobody paid him to be a mechanic!.Then gramps can lure a good percentage of of the males away from the group,especially several with the weapons they will bring with them when they come along to "help out "the broken down supply truck.Wink .wink,nudge,nudge.

As soon as gramps lure them into the predetermined killing zone,our buddy snipes the one closest to grandpa,gramps picks up the dead mans weapon and has a chance,as our buddy takes out at least one more,maybe two more bad guys,now gramps is probably engaging whoever is left,even if we lose gramps,we are now armed with three times the firepower we had half hour ago and we have severely damaged our opponent ,who by the way must have some resources of their own.You see sometimes you have to learn to take risks as a predator as well as risks as prey.

And you NEVER EVER sacrifice one of your people without a numbers victory,one way or the other either through many surviving or many opponents dieing.

While I find it difficult to believe anyone will have to hide their identity in any future conflict scenarios, I do agree and understand why certain scenarios could prove to be a challenge to surviving. Those other situations are worth discussing and as such I feel I can share a few thoughts on the subject matter of survival.

While any movement of large groups is likely to run into some armed group demanding some kind of toll fee for passing, its another to have to deal with groups that only want to kill you, rob you and leave you rot on the ground with your family and friends because you are the wrong skin color or because you don't believe in the same God they believe in.

There are many factors that could complicate a given situation but in the end, only those capable of self defense will have a chance at survival. Unfortunately, self defense is only one side of a certain coin. We need to discuss the flip side of the coin to better understand self defense.

When the criminals go forth looking for victims, you are either going to be a victim or you are not. The utterance from your lips that you choose to be a stand up person defending your self and your family is a noble act, but without the means and will to act on what you know has to be done, then you might as well just shoot yourself as to play into the hands of those intent on killing you and your family just because they can.

Having a weapon does not mean that you will use it. While many say, "Oh yeah, I can pull the trigger on someone" is easier to say than do. Mix in multiple armed targets intent on killing you and you will quickly come to find that unless you are clear on discerning a real life and death situation, then you might as well be dead because most likely you will be dead by your own inability to see when and where death should be dispensed with no mercy and no hesitation.

Talking about situations that are life and death can give someone to a lot to think about, but unless someone discusses the reality of a given scenario in how to kill your way to survive another day, then most likely you will become the victim to someones criminal actions because you failed to comprehend when using lethal force is the only choice that is going to keep you alive.

When it come to killing, you should know how to effectively use a knife, a handgun, rifle and even a bow and arrow. Effectively means being able to kill what you target and being able to kill it as efficiently and soldierly as human possible. This means that if you are using an ice pick to defend yourself, you better know what points on the human body could be pricked to mortally wound your opponent.

I said mortally wound because the intent is to kill the target and not dance with them to some music playing in the background. Just barely wounding someone intent on killing you is only going to make them that much more intent on killing you. Life and death situations are called such because someone lives and someone dies. It is the struggle and the use of clear will and lethal force that makes the difference. This has to be learned and then executed in a quick fashion to be affective so I'm not saying it's easy to learn. I am saying that without it, life and death takes on more death than life.

Knowing where to shoot someone with a handgun or rifle will ensure they stop doing whatever they were about to do. Wounding has no place in a life and death situation and the only wounds that should occur in a life and death situation are those wounds that occur because it was just that, a life and death struggle that ended with you killing your opponent. Hunters don't go out to wound an animal, they go out to kill it so they can eat it. No games, no wounding, no psycho war crazed death ideologies. Just death with no politics or religion mixed in. Cold, hard, life and death.

Discuss scenarios, but learning when and how to kill is the only ingredients that I know will lead one to a successful life and death situation. While there are no guarantees in any training, being cognizant when and how to use lethal force is what must be learned and understood in order to survive another day.

If you're going to cut pork chops like a good butcher, you need to know how and you have the tools to do so. Life and death situations boil down to what you know and what you are willing to do when those situations arise. Good butcher don't flinch or get squeamish when cutting hog and it's because they understood what they are doing and most likely have done it before.

Without discussing how and when to kill will ensure that you will fail the first time you are placed in a situation where you don't have time to think, only act. Failing to act is and would be a certain death sentence for you and your friends and family but if you are going to act and want to act with a measure of success, then you must learn how to kill using and understanding how different types of weapons induce enough injury to kill your opponent.

Thanks for the posting. I for one found it a good subject matter to discuss. I sincerely hope I have provided some food for thought.

You bring up an awsome point ,an integral part of my plans is immediatly indoctrinating by example and experience ,my whole group.Death and its immediate and permanent consequences must be understood to build the foundation that will allow for a determined directed survival mindset,there is no such thing as KILLING ---only---SURVIVING,and the sooner the group gets on this page the better.

reply to post by angrymomma


Sending out the healthy 35 year old........what if they shot him dead no questions, no dialogue - you are down one healthy prime male and his gun.

Questions to for all, have they seen us yet? if no can we go around - detour to the side - avoid? (Read Sun Tzu's quote below).

angrymomma has a point though sending a healthy young male may make them wonder if we have a lot of similar men in our group. Good stradegy.


If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. if they have not seen you, you need to first back off, hide and observe. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. - Sun Tzu, the Art of War

If they have not seen us yet, watch them - do any go privately for a potty break? if yes, one person alone with another gun - you can abush him/her and grab their gun.

Do they seem well armed? Possibly with night vision capability? Then you can't sneek up on them at night.

1st choice because they outnumber is to avoid and observe.

In my bug out bag I have a copy of Art of War by Sun Tzu and some good binoculars. I'de like to get night vision. if they have not seen you, you need to first back off, hide and observe.

Keep in mind old people are expendable however and this is a big however, we (us old ones) have been around a while. While some of us have slept our whole lives, some of us (me) have studied, watched, taken notes and have a wealth of knowledge and experience to offer.

Also, as I get older, I fear death less. It is inevitable and coming sooner than later - it will be a release for me to be rid of this 3d shell so come at me with everything you got, I don't fear being deleted from the game.

I listen to my kids who are approaching their mid 30's and they are still naive to somethings.

angrymomma is also right in keeping grandpa back. He has shooting ability, hiding the old and women is wise. (most consider old and women weak) but any member that can sharp shoot is a keeper.

Unit is right, why is there a checkpoint with two trucks? Are they on the defensive or offensive?

The children, women and teen can be taught to shoot by grandpa.........I learned at 12 on a standard rifle and could knock 9 out of 12 beer cans off a log average. (I had cateracts so I compensated by aiming to the left of the scope by 1/8 inch) if I remember correctly / long time ago).

Now that my eyesight is corrected, I can get 10 out of 12. Woman can shoot, even "old ones".

However having only 1 rifle and 1 shotgun isn't diddly squat. We need to arm up.

With only one gun and one rifle observing and avoiding are the best options currently available.

The order of survival to be determined is who is the most valuable (defense skill wise) and who has the most potential of becoming able to shoot well and make good decisions......

Again, I can't stress, while grandpa would seem most non threatening, he is the only one at this point that can shoot straight........that in and of itself makes him invaluable.

You have got to be able to hit your mark from a distance the very first time.

Do they have hidden marksmen? That's another good question.

I say stand down, hide if they haven't seen you and assess the situation or avoid, detour if possible because you are currently out numbered both manpower and weapon wise.

asktheanimals reply at 17:07 is priceless, very wise.

I'm traveling along this interesting thread as I go, many insightful posts.


[edit on 15-8-2010 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by zaiger


zaiger you are right. I often dream of a secret HIDDEN FROM SIGHT bunker.

but, eventually when your food, water and other supplies are gone you will have to come out of hiding.

Most people when TSHTF won't have a secret hidie hole. They will be left out in the open, traveling in family groups.

I've seen people get crazy trying to maintain their 9-5 cubical slave job, I can just imagine if a apocalyptic scenario happened how violent and savage people would become, even your meek little office sheeple would get pesky.

While I would never go out of my way to harm anyone, I would try to help anyone that seemed descent - one needs to be ready to defend their family. I have a nine year old grand daughter and the first thing I would have gramps do is show her how to aim and shoot. We play hide and seek all the time and I've trained her to hide and remain quiet no matter what.

She's a regular little Newt, (Carrie Henn / Aliens). She can really hide well, very creative little person. Once she hid in a drawer putting covers over her - how she fit in there I will never know.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by ofhumandescent]