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Government employees are not innocent...

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posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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MasterJedi, while I sort of agree with what you're saying, I can't agree that ALL government employees are just mindless wretches working "for the man." I think the best way to destabilize and take out a corrupt ANYTHING is from the inside out. If I had a degree that would lend itself to a government post, I would definitely take it. The best offense is a good defense, and knowing that so many government workers are at a top secret clearance level, there are probably many of them that hate the way things are going as much as we do. I agree with the poster that said that many of these people could become allies should a Revolution ever erupt. I would say GO for the government jobs, take their money and their knowledge and use it against them.

Just my two cents worth.

-truthseeker




posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


I would argue that by the very fact they accepted a position at the IRS, they are openly acting against my natural rights. They are acting in concert to loot and suppress me.

Do we consider the galley cook in a concentration camp any less culpable than the guy who threw the gas into the gas chamber?

It takes a special breed of person to work for the IRS. The IRS is one of those wholly evil institutions of government right down to its core, just like the ATF. The ATF's sole mission is to violate the natural and constitutional rights of the citizenry.

Again, violence begets violence, so I can't condone Stack's actions, but I certainly understand why he might have done it.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


I would argue that by the very fact they accepted a position at the IRS, they are openly acting against my natural rights. They are acting in concert to loot and suppress me.

Do we consider the galley cook in a concentration camp any less culpable than the guy who threw the gas into the gas chamber?

It takes a special breed of person to work for the IRS. The IRS is one of those wholly evil institutions of government right down to its core, just like the ATF. The ATF's sole mission is to violate the natural and constitutional rights of the citizenry.

Again, violence begets violence, so I can't condone Stack's actions, but I certainly understand why he might have done it.




Believe me, I don't argue your point at all. I agree that it takes a special brand of person to join the IRS. But what many people don't understand is that someone as lowly as the Subway Sandwich Shop worker under the Capital Building, or the Janitor in the White House, or whatever, ALL need TOP SECRET CLEARANCE. In the same right, I don't think that everybody in the IRS is innocent, but the alternative (going hungry, losing your home, etc) is a deciding factor that keeps these people from quitting their jobs. I think comparing IRS workers to Nazi Internment Camp workers is a very far fetched and disgusting idea. And if you were really oppressed, do you think you'd be able to afford a computer to post on this very topic, or pay for the internet required to post on this topic?

We're a long way off from complete and utter governmental collapse. But I stick by my point that these people that you seem to deem as all-encompassing evil, might actually be able to provide us with the information necessary to make an intelligent decision when it comes to a revolution.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


Oh calm down. I'm not comparing them to Nazi's. I'm comparing their culpability, which is an entirely different matter.

I don't accept your excuse for their joining the IRS any more than I accept the robber's argument that he had to rob people in order to feed himself.




[edit on 21-2-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


You're still comparing apples to oranges my friend. Until the day that I see IRS workers, or our own government shuffling people off into the gas chambers, I stand by my original statement.

addendum: So what would you have seen done? What are your ideas and choices? Would you prefer to live in a world of anarchy where people can rape your mother or daughter or wife and get away with it because there are no laws? Most of the people that work in the IRS started out as CPA's (Certified Public Accountants), and when they were offered more money to work for the government they jumped at the chance.

Listen, I agree that our tax system is f*cked up more than I'd like to admit, but grouping everybody who works with the IRS as scum is just a little bit too much. I believe that a change in our voting laws, voting out incumbents, term limits, etc. is the first line of defense. Don't get me wrong, I'm no hippie tree hugger who says that all violence is bad. I do support the option of violent revolution if necessary, but how do we do that if we don't even know who or what to attack?

A flat tax would be better, as income tax IS illegal, however until someone stands up to TPTB, in a democratic manner, nothing will get done.

I think you are just mad that you have to pay taxes.


[edit on 21-2-2010 by truthseeker1984]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


No, I'm not comparing apples and oranges. I could use any example and the comparison would remain the same.

Do we consider the get-away driver less culpable than the guy who robs the bank?

When you take a position at the IRS, no matter if you are a janitor or a field agent, you are acting to loot and suppress the citizenry.



[edit on 21-2-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


I see that neither of our positions will change, so thank you for the respectable debate.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by conspiracyrus
 


you my friend are very wrong,in a court of law its called being an acomplice.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


How would you suggest our country run without the IRS?



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeker1984

addendum: So what would you have seen done? What are your ideas and choices? Would you prefer to live in a world of anarchy where people can rape your mother or daughter or wife and get away with it because there are no laws? Most of the people that work in the IRS started out as CPA's (Certified Public Accountants), and when they were offered more money to work for the government they jumped at the chance.

Listen, I agree that our tax system is f*cked up more than I'd like to admit, but grouping everybody who works with the IRS as scum is just a little bit too much. I believe that a change in our voting laws, voting out incumbents, term limits, etc. is the first line of defense. Don't get me wrong, I'm no hippie tree hugger who says that all violence is bad. I do support the option of violent revolution if necessary, but how do we do that if we don't even know who or what to attack?

A flat tax would be better, as income tax IS illegal, however until someone stands up to TPTB, in a democratic manner, nothing will get done.

I think you are just mad that you have to pay taxes.



Your argument assumes two things:

1. There is no voluntary way to organize and employ a police/justice system.

2. That eliminating government automatically causes society to devolve into chaos.

I would argue neither of those are true.


The measure of the state's success is that the word anarchy frightens people, while the word state does not.

Joseph Sobran, Anarchy without Fear



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 12:08 PM
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to the OP:

Be careful what you say. You never know who is watching, and you never know when "Karma" might strike you...

You, and those like you, should realize that the internet is not anonymous, and it is very easy to find out where you live

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Snarf]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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I know what your saying but people have to survive the way they know how to..We are all trying to find a new way to live but we haven't all figured it out yet...so for now you have to play the game until you can control your own life...
i work for UPS and handle MERCH FROSST pharmaceuticals. Personally i hate pharmaceuticals. So should i hate my self for working and shipping these unnecessary drugs to people that are probably making them more sick. If only we had nutritious food we wouldn't be sick....that's going off topic though.

I wish i could live in the bush grow my own food power my house and not worry. but for now...i can't



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by mslag67
 


You should question why you can't and what forces are at work that prevent you from doing so.

Perhaps the fact that government has looted your labor and given the product of your labor to others they have deemed more worthy than yourself plays a large role in your situation.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by novacs4me
 


Maybe some distinction needs to drawn between the federal and state government. I assume the OP is looking at the employees of the federal government so teachers and local law enforcement would be a different story, hate to make assumptions though.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by MasterJedi

I'm as caring and compassionate as the next person, but I stand my belief that you are not innocent if you knowingly work for a corrupt boss.



I can kind of understand where your coming from, although I don't want to apply your ideas to the whole Joe Stack incident. I highly doubt everyone in the building literally worked for the government. After all, I'm sure there are janitors within the building who are working for an outside company who have no affiliation with the government, or temp workers who are working for their respective companies. Although, that's not what I intended to comment on.

I agree that if you are working for a corrupt company/agency/boss it is your responsibility to know what kind of things go on. After all, when your part of a company, you're part of a machine mechanism, where no matter how insignificant your job is, you help the machine work. So even if all you do is enter numbers into a computer... you're still a cog that is essential to the functioning of the machine.

I used to work at one of the most corrupt places there are: a debt collection law firm. They even had to open another department within their company to deal with the lawsuits against them from their mistakes. They tried to collect debts that have already been collected, and they tried to collect even when the time to collect the debt has legally run out. A few times they also tried to collect debts that were non-existent.
I spoke out. I called them unprofessional and I made sure everyone I knew in person knew what an evil place that was. When I quit (which was months and months after I called them unprofessional, believe it or not they didn't fire me when I spouted off at them) I made sure their company was crippled without me. When I left... they basically slowed down for days because paperwork kept piling up and no one knew how to handle it. Soon after, my boyfriend who was their IT professional, quit too. So that just screwed them, since he had all the information of the company and he was the one who solved their computer problems (it took them months to find someone else to hire).
My point is that, in that situation, I knew I was being part of something wrong, so I took the initiative to leave. Others who work in corrupt environments should know to leave too: although I'm sure it's much easier said than done.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by MasterJedi
 




Are you an employee of the US government? If so, then doesn't that relinquish any hold on the word "innocent" you could have claimed, if and when that civic building is destroy in a revolution?


Throw an airplane against a building with people inside, isn't a revolution, it's the exacerbation of the murderer personality of someone's ego, that was just waiting the "right" moment to show up. Justify this act automatically justify the actions of muslim suicide-bombs and general terrorists. A huge mouse-trap was set up in USA and right now, I'm hearing thousands of CLACK, CLACK, CLACK, the sound of people being caught... Americans are talking that an "Illuminati NWO plot" is destroying America, but this kinda "Joe Stack attitude" is EXACTLY what this plot needs to install a Martial Law, that indeed is a solid step to final NWO.

Americans are thinking Joe Stack was a hero of the new revolution...




[edit on 21-2-2010 by ucalien]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by mslag67
 


You should question why you can't and what forces are at work that prevent you from doing so.

Perhaps the fact that government has looted your labor and given the product of your labor to others they have deemed more worthy than yourself plays a large role in your situation.



Or, maybe YOU should stop blaming your shortcomings on other people. You are responsible for your own life.

Government employee's are no more guilty for the OPs cut in food stamps than someone who works at a police station is guilty for police brutality.

Grow up.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by ucalien
 



Americans are thinking Joe Stack was a hero of the new revolution...

Which, in its self, is a racist thing.

Its okay for Joe Stack to fly a plane into a building

but its not okay for a muslim to do the same thing, for the same exact reason.

People who think this are the reason hatred exists in this world...and the reason i applaud every time one of them gets "shut up" in a hurry.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by Snarf
 

"to the OP:

Be careful what you say. You never know who is watching, and you never know when "Karma" might strike you...

You, and those like you, should realize that the internet is not anonymous, and it is very easy to find out where you live"

That is so true but hey who cares its not like they can trace your IP address or something.

And yes I am employed by our Government.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by hillbilly4rent]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Snarf

Or, maybe YOU should stop blaming your shortcomings on other people. You are responsible for your own life.

Government employee's are no more guilty for the OPs cut in food stamps than someone who works at a police station is guilty for police brutality.

Grow up.


Nice straw man there, followed up by a wildly off-base comparison.









 
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