There is skepticism and, frankly, there is being an ass.

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posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by haterproof


A self proclaimed and self-absorbed ass on the internet.


Off net, as well.



You are very important.


Yes...I am. Thank you for seeing this.

High five!

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Mask]




posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 03:31 AM
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Thanks for posting this. This very reason is why I fear that people who see things that are unexplained to them might fear coming here and sharing it with us. IMO, we need to know about ALL potential sitings in order to learn as much about the phenomenon as we can. You never know when someone may have a missing piece of the puzzle that we need to add more to our understanding. A forum should be inviting, not have bulldogs at the gate barring people from trying to get in.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
reply to post by neformore
 


Rock on daddy-O many are feeling the very same sentiment and you have summed this up very nicely.




I concur.

Neformore has summed things up quite succinctly.

Alas, I do not believe that things will change. This site has become known as a place where one can engage in asshattery under the guise of skepticism or to troll by making deceptive threads/posts. There are sites which tell people how to troll ATS...


You can insult someone so long as you are claiming to be debunking them. You can be rude so long as you post a link and quotes from an external source afterward (the quote need only be of slight relevance to the topic at hand and remember; nobody follows links these days, so this makes it look like you have researched what you are talking about.)

You can even imply that someone is a stupid moron, but you cannot call them a stupid moron. You can make as many rude, disdainful, demeaning implications as you wish - but you must do so under the guise of skepticism to get away with it.


*Know what I mean?





[edit on 21-2-2010 by Exuberant1]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 03:43 AM
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So, I've reviewed the replies and actually posted my own about this topic as one of my first threads some time ago. And it wasn't bad for a first run.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Admittedly, at first, I was quite annoyed by the skeptics/debunkers. It is known now that there are disinformation agents on ATS as well. So, some of your frustrations are not without merit. However, they are all just people too. Some have agendas, some of them lie, some of them travel in packs, and some of the are just looking for attention.

Either way, don't any of you guys see the power in all of this? You're interacting with other people from all walks of life that you would have never previously had access to. You're influencing each other's thoughts and spreading knowledge whether it be for good or bad in an effort to collectively educate yourselves. Some people are doing it for ulterior motives, and if that's the case...so be it. This is a healthy dose of freedom that we should all be proud to be a part of.

Here's the key. If you've got a guy who is incessantly pestering you, obviously something that you said triggered a reaction. If you have a whole group of them pounding down your door, that means you've officially become a threat to their world view or stability. And, either you can struggle against it, or you can present your view to the best of your ability and maintain this person for the long haul. Eventually they get to know you, you get to know them, and each of your are responsible for providing different opinions on the same subject that neither of you had ever considered before. Some people are too proud to admit failure, but, it doesn't mean that your information didn't somehow penetrate them. I would say, if they argue with you to that degree, the information actually penetrated them more than you would ever imagine.

So, consider it a study in online human interaction. At some point, ATS may be the very site that saves some of our lives.

This whole thing is far more positive than you could imagine.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 03:59 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 


You think it’s bad in the UFO threads, look at the 911 threads it’s really appalling.
Anything close to the truth that debunks the OS brings in more 911 Trolls who do not have an opinion either way. I have asked them questions why do you believe in the OS or what evidences convince you the 911 OS is one hundred percent true.
They never have answer any of them, they are just “Trolls” ignore them.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 04:08 AM
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reply to post by impressme
 


Trolls are not welcomed or allowed on ATS...this thread is not about "trolls"

Lets be very clear...the mod making the thread is talking about people being "asses", not trolls.

Trolls are against the rules of ATS...asses are not.

If I was anyone with a decent grasp on "what is important" I wouldn't give a flying crap who was "an ass or not" as long as they provided the answers to the questions I was asking.

Be a snide little arrogant mother-sucker all you wish, just deliver to me factual evidence and relevant information...that is what I NEED from a skeptic (or anyone posting for that matter).

It goes both ways...

If a poster came on here with proof of aliens and a real video of all their ships...I wouldn't give a damn how "ass-like" he was. Hell, he could cuss my mother out if he wanted, just show me the goods!

Maybe some people need to stop being so picky on where the "info" comes from and care a little less about the "ass status" of the poster.

If the post is relevant and informative...you can be an ass all you like.

And if your post is worthless and filled with badly put together ideas and horrible information of a false nature, I don't care how much etiquette or decorum you display...you stiill suck if you can't deliver usable/valuable input/information.

I'll take an "ass who is right" over a polite little sweety-pie "posting hoaxes and lies".

Lets not drift into the whole realm of "all asses are bad for ATS" because half those asses are keeping this site "hip enough" to remain in business.

I can even take offense (if I tried hard enough) at people complaining about a certain type (asses) having the freedom to post openly...but I'm an ass, what do I care what you think about asses?

And this thread belongs on BTS.



[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Mask]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Mask

If the post is relevant and informative...you can be an ass all you like.



Do you truly believe that one can insult and be rude to their fellow members and drive away posters from the site so long as their rude/insulting post contains information which is somewhat relevant and informative?




[edit on 21-2-2010 by Exuberant1]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1



Do you truly believe that one can insult and be rude to their fellow members and drive away posters from the site so long as their rude/insulting post contains information which is somewhat relevant and informative?




[edit on 21-2-2010 by Exuberant1]


Sure can...look at the OP doing it right in this thread.

YES, you are ALLOWED to be a rude little jerk...you are not allowed to single out users by name, stalk people, use vulgarity or personal attacks, or reveal personal information about the user's life.

Am I allowed to look down my snotty nose and smirk as I rip a new hole in the butt of an idiot who just took a crap in the form of a BS-post claiming he is from outer-space while he tells me he is my overlord and my God is false?

Yup...damn tooten I am.

No need to be perfect...just remain in the rules and do your best to "add to the site".

Believe it or not, being an ass is NOT a sin or even a T&C violation.

Do you want a witch hunt? If so...start with me, I am a wonderful species of ass.

It may be hard to swallow...but just how some of you may not "enjoy" smart-ass posts from amateur keyboard-comedians...some people (hundreds and hundreds) actually love them.

Count my stars and flags....I didn't get those from being Mr Nicey.

And the appluads surely didn't get issued to me for being a "troll".

Asses are people and if you can not tolerate them, I suggest you find a no-ass site with a policy forbidding sarcasm and rapier wit.

Really now...leave us asses alone. Its starting to look like "ats" supports ass-hunting.

PS- I am OFFICIALLY standing up for all asses on ATS who ALSO perform an incredible service to this site in delivering good content. And for the record...I am the one who is right here.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Mask]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 04:44 AM
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Originally posted by neformore

The sarcastic, belittling rubbish is not - in my opinion - the ATS way. We're supposed to do civilised discussion here.

Its not meant to be a schoolyard or a kindergarten.


It's the internet, I'm afraid its far worse than the schoolyard playground. I have to be honest I enjoy being a skeptic and I do sort of enjoy the anger that adamant believers will cast at anyone who questions their theories or beliefs... BUT I agree with you that there is a line. Here on ATS there is the legitimate and the blatantly absurd, some skeptics have trouble telling the difference and for everyone the line is different.

The difference is the arrogance with which many people make wild claims... Some people seem to defend with extreme prejudice even the most absurd ideas which are obviously false and will claim to KNOW for certain they are true.... I think that's where the arrogance of debunkers comes from, an equal and opposite reaction...

Skepticism = good

Blatantly insulting someone = bad.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by Mr Mask
 


Your ego is baffling.


Originally posted by Mr Mask

The people I confront here with an "attitude" deeming them "wack nuts or hoaxers" are always what I say they are.


Calm down tiger.

reply to post by neformore
 


I agree with what you've said. Although I don't actively participate in the UFO forum I am a reader and every now and then there is an absolute gem posted and its worth sticking around for those. But for the regular everyday 'ufo sighting' threads we come across those who misplace their skepticism with their ego and continually run a muck. There is a fine line between being a skeptic and an absolute ass, yes there are no rules for being an ass on the internet and this forum, but you don't actively behave in such a way in real life, do you? There are no rules but there are certainly ramifications.

[edit on 21/2/2010 by serbsta]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 


"The genuine UFO sightings, the real golden stuff is likely to get drowned in a wave of sarcastic crap if we - as a community both on ATS and those interested in UFOlogy - fall into the trap of trying to stroke our own egos and appear witty at the expense of others who may simply be misguided in what they have seen, or genuinely have no clue what they have observed."

Actually UFO siting is drowning in the crap of:

(1) Lazy journalism - Why don't researchers go back to the original reports as opposed to just the most recent version of the story.

(2) Celebrity culture - too many people want to be celebrities when we are all unique and wonderful.

(3) Commercial pressures - UFOology has become a business so we must keep turning out books, videos etc.

(4) Sloppy thinking. People even intelligent people make terrible mistakes of logic when analysing data.

(5) Tall tales or yarns.

Or any mixture of the 5 above.

Have I missed anything??

Yes



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 04:58 AM
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reply to post by Mr Mask
 


Do you believe that courtesy is not mandatory on ATS?



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 05:01 AM
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Originally posted by serbsta

Your ego is baffling.



Thanks...I work out. (blush)



Calm down tiger.


ROAR!

But seriously...I am right.

Asses are fine and allowed here.

Would you say people with insider information into the depopulation of the humanrace shouldn't be allowed here because they just don't warm people's cockles with a soft/soothing way of word?

No...you would be very pleased to have a stuckup jerk bring you those documents.

Hell...you would even accept them from people you hated, if they were real.

So...why is information less valued if it is delivered in an ass-like tone?

Sorry...nope...asses are fine as long as they remain within the rules and strive to add to the site.

You can't force nobody to actually "like" idiots, scammers or wack-os.

Just like I can't force you to appreciate a well-made post by an overly clever ass.

I'll take rude truth over polite falsities any day of the week.

And so would any of you.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Mask]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Mask

Count my stars and flags....I didn't get those from being Mr Nicey.

And the appluads surely didn't get issued to me for being a "troll".



Yes, I think you've made your ego tripping endeavors quite clear. Let us revel in the glory of 'Masky-Mask' (puked inside) and 'count' his stars and flags, which he has so righteously gained by espousing the doctrine of skeptici-ass-ism. That's a fusion of the two, if you didn't see what I did there. You see, a true skeptic posts in contrary manner to the way you have presented yourself in this thread. I'm not a groupie, but learn from Phage, he has class.

Don't take it to heart though, some of just don't care.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Mask


So...why is information less valued if it is delivered in an ass-like tone?




Once again you're not understanding. My argument is simply that there is a way in which you can present cold hard facts to counter any theory without being an ass and putting someone's intellect on show. If you can't do this then its fine, like you said... it's not against the rules.

Just my opinion.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by Mr Mask
 


Do you believe that courtesy is not mandatory on ATS?


True, courtesy is mandatory.

Courtesy Is Mandatory

BTW, your avatar is still cute.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by serbsta
Yes, I think you've made your ego tripping endeavors quite clear. Let us revel in the glory of 'Masky-Mask' (puked inside) and 'count' his stars and flags, which he has so righteously gained by espousing the doctrine of skeptici-ass-ism.




Lets be detailed here...

You, are doing just what I am defending.

And I didn't get all my baubles of worthlessness from just posting about asses...but bet your butt I ALWAYS posted as an ass. Frankly...I can't help it...nor do I want to.

Heck, You are being an ass to me RIGHT NOW...and I fricken SALUTE you for it...know why? Because I read you around here and know you provide this site with good content.

Do I agree with most your posts? Nope.

Do I go debunking them in an ass-like manner? Nope.

Know why? Because I see you are doing a good job and not trying to sucker anyone or ruin ATS with trolling.

You sir are ok by me...not all "believers are bad".

Lets move on before I feel like hugging someone.



That's a fusion of the two, if you didn't see what I did there.


Yeah...you posted to me in a negative (and slightly insulting manner), but kept it within the rules of this site and didn't go overboard or hateful, while remaining on topic and with a point.

Good job.

Perfect ass behavior for ATS.



You see, a true skeptic posts in contrary manner to the way you have presented yourself in this thread.


Sigh...are you the expert on skeptics and how true ones post on public forums?

Really...are you?

No...you are not.

And trust me, I am very aware of many stances you take on this site and wouldn't be shocked to learn you have no understanding of what actually "happens inside" a skeptics head.

I'll tell YOU what a skeptic thinks...you tell me what a supporter of wild ideas laughed at by science thinks.

We meet in the middle and dance...see?




I'm not a groupie,


Thank god...I've had too many and would call police if this happened again.

Groupies are dangerous people and I'm too old for that now.



but learn from Phage,


I think it is impossible "not to learn from Phage".

Heck, look at all those times he dragged you kicking and screaming to space-school to get the "real deal" forced fed to you.

I guess we all learn from Phage, like it or not.

(lord knows a skeptic thread can't even exist for longer then a day without a UFO-er bringing up his name with a growl...wonder why, he NEVER brings YOU up in HIS posts. Telling, indeed).



he has class.


In skeptic school, he got all the brains...I just got the good looks and awesomeness.

I still think I got the better deal.



Don't take it to heart though, some of just don't care.




Some don't!

But thank GOD you do enough to come and type to me.

You sure your not my groupie?

I dunno...I got my eye on you buddy!

Be well and win stuff!



[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Mask]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 05:28 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 05:32 AM
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I am in total agreement. Even recently, I have noticed a rise in skeptic/believer attacking threads. I don't see why it is so hard to just agree to disagree. It saves alot of time and even more so, There is no childish name calling and belittling.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Mask
Treating a hoaxing individual as a scum bag is no lack of self control.

Some people just post in a more entertaining way.

And some are just not nice people.

Nothing wrong with being a funny little dork or a mean person.

In short "there is no rules against people being an ass".


Maybe you missed the memo?

Civility and Decorum are Required...

Also, check out the T&C

Terms and Conditions



2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful, intolerant, bigoted and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.


Civility is what separates ATS from the comments section of Youtube.

I'll be damned if I'm not going to raise issues that I see that will prevent it from becoming as assinine as that, and I'm sure the other mods feel the same way.

I hope people can understand that, but judging by some of your responses here I'm not entirely convinced that some of them will, because there Epeen, or D-Ego just gets in the way.





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