There is skepticism and, frankly, there is being an ass.

reply to post by Elieser

No proof that what was posted as evidence is fake,

Why should they bother with evidence when all they have to do is copy and paste "OMG thast phtoshoped ur dumb!"

And inevitably that single sentence that took all of five seconds to post and click reply generates a response from three or four people who take ten minutes each writing lengthy posts with information and links defending their position. By which time the thread is already on page two and five more people have replied that it's fake.

If your objective is merely to inflate your ego, it's far more efficient to avoid reading the posts you're responding to and simply post generic insults and standard "debunking" rather than waste your time thinking up an intelligent reply.

And, as many threads have demonstrated...there's no shortage of people who will respond to these mindless insults and retorts with pages of typing and hours of their time.

It does not create a fun or pleasant environment here on ATS. But for people who are on ATS solely to fuel their ego, it is an extremely effective and time-efficient strategy for acheiving that goal.

I'm curious what the counts would look like if you put all the anti-skeptic "bash" threads next to all of the anti-believer "bash" threads. We all know the threads I'm talking about, the ones with no real concern with UFOs or aliens at all, but simply "Skeptics/Believers are bad, here's why" threads.

I think I know, but I'm curious what everyone else thinks. I bet I could guess though, considering how skeptical they are, or how much of a believer they are which one they'd think gets hammered the most.

Sometimes the best response is ridicule. That is not to say it is the only response or the best response for every situation. There are many reasoned, thought-provoking posts on ATS no matter what side of the belief divide they fall on. But then there are things like Stephen Greer's amorphous blobs as proof of ET life or posts that are shockingly asinine. Sometimes, the most appropriate response to call it for what they are.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Sometimes the best response is ridicule. That is not to say it is the only response or the best response for every situation. There are many reasoned, thought-provoking posts on ATS no matter what side of the belief divide they fall on. But then there are things like Stephen Greer's amorphous blobs as proof of ET life or posts that are shockingly asinine. Sometimes, the most appropriate response to call it for what them for what they are.

I disagree.

Sure laugh at the Greer for believing in what he believes in, but don't lump the OP in there with him.

That's the problem.

Is that people are attacking the messenger.

Ridicule should never be a first, or last resort. If you don't believe, or don't like, then don't post.

It's that simple really.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Is that people are attacking the messenger.

I didn't say anything about attacking the messenger. There is a big difference between showing why a message may be ridiculous, laughable, what-have-you and attacking the messenger. There is also a difference between simply dismissing an idea as ridiculous and showing why it is.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


I agree with you, and wasn't saying that YOU specifically attacked any messengers, your usually quite nice about it.

Either way, we might have to agree to disagree, I just don't feel like making fun of any idea is good for business, unless there is scientific date to suppor the stance.

But even then that's not ridicule, that's education.

~Keeper

I'd be lying if I said I don't some days feel as if some, definitely not all, posters have bit of a superiority / bordering on God complex. I swear (pardon the pun) I some times feel some skeptics practice the same degree of faith in their scientific, skeptical method as do the Christian, UFO, Chi, NWO, or truther believers.

I am a huge fan of skeptics with humility though. Christ had a special place in his heart and a future role for the skeptic Thomas.

Seems to me everybody adheres to their own interpretation of the grand illusion narrative. No one has all the answers; and there is much more that we don't know than we know for sure.

Yes I agree with the OP. Let's take an example here: The helmet or statue head on mars. (You guys know the threads and picture I mean) I find that very intriguing even if just for the geological anomaly that it is (or probably is?). It does look like a helmet or statue head, but of course we don't know, and we should be skeptical of it. It could very well just be a rock. But it's still a fascinating find, and it's what ATS is all about. Some of the comments in those threads are typical of this problem. The Skeptical comments tend to be very insulting and tend to belittle anyone who even thinks that this could be a possibility. That's "Earth is Flat", "Earth is the Center of the Solar System" Mentality. Yes, sometimes the thread title is the problem and Yes, there are repeat offenders who claim proof with pictures that I can't even get my eyes to focus on and draw all over them to boot until I have know Idea what I'm even supposed to be seeing.

Sure some of these do deserve ridicule or harsh comments but that isn't what this thread is really all about. It's the amazing pictures and testimonies and audio files and eyewitness accounts and bizarre coincedences that really do warrant a good look at and discussion here
that get the harsh comments for no reason.

I appreciate a good skeptic who provides reason for his position and photos or data to back it up. That's why I'm here. I work full time and don't have time to study geology, astronomy, police procedure, economics, particle physics, quantum physics, molecular biology, constitutional law, or any of the dozens (hundreds) of disciplines and fields of study that people on these boards have or posess.

Lighten up on the harsh comments that aren't necessary. I know I should heed my own words (I have a few prejudices and some pretty strong beliefs, but I don't think I've ever blasted a poster directly when they are giving us some sort of theory, or (what they believe) is evidence of something amazing.

Cheers!

[edit on 20-2-2010 by amazing]

S&F for you.

I think what you are describing here is called ad hominem attacks. If you can't attack the argument you attack the character of the one presenting the argument. Unfortunately this tried and true tactic really works if allowed to propagate. Fortunately moderation can nip this in the bud before it becomes a serious problem here. I have seen elsewhere where it is allowed to flourish against forum rules and as a result I think it is only a matter of time before these places collapse.

Originally posted by neformore

Thats a failing on your part. Not on theirs.

Funny how I see it exactly the opposite way.

Do you really have no self control over your own actions? Sounds like a cop out to me.

Clipping the wings of a false story and doing it in a way that is humorous and/or sarcastic is not a lack of control.

Treating a hoaxing individual as a scum bag is no lack of self control.

Some people just post in a more entertaining way.

And some are just not nice people.

Nothing wrong with being a funny little dork or a mean person.

In short "there is no rules against people being an ass".

The people you deem to be "wack-nuts" may be experiencing things personally that you have no idea about.

Nope...got it wrong there. The people I confront here with an "attitude" deeming them "wack nuts or hoaxers" are always what I say they are.

I don't go around telling every UFO witness they are wrong, or say that every 911-Truther is wrong.

I only confront those who are completely, 100%, phony or nuts.

I'm good like that.

You don't know what is going on in their lives or in their heads at any given point.

Wrong again...I KNOW they didn't spend three years on a space ship communing with aliens as they were voted the master diplomat to earth. I also KNOW that they are NOT magic casting atlantians sent from the future/past.

There are TONS, MILLIONS, BILLIONS of things I know about every users on this site.

So trust me...if you are confused on who is "100% fake or loony" on this site, you can feel free to U2U me and I will share the info privately.

Heck...I am sure even YOU know a few I have missed.

Heck...you are sure of who is an ass, and I am sure of who is a liar or crazy-person.

We all have our talents after all.

And heres the interesting part - people criticise ATS because they say that the forum is "diluted with rubbish".

I ignore those people and what they are complaining about.

I guess you can't.

An inability to refrain from posting sarcastic comments keeps that "rubbish" at the top of the lists, instead of it ebbing away.

What you may call rubbish may actually be what the majority of people wish to read. What you call silly may actually bring more users to ATS because they wish to follow the quality of "said thread".

I mean this works two ways yknow...for instance-

I see this thread as silly fluff. I mean, so what if a poster is an ass as long as he isn't breaking rules. I don't care for overly huggy people being all cute with each other too much anyways. I also enjoy seeing people stand up to liars who have intentions of suckering people.

So, I like to see threads go to the top of the list when a debunker/skeptic wacks one out of the park. I enjoy it more if it is entertaining and clever.

Being an ass makes no difference if the guy/girl/alien/pope is right.

You must not like what some others might like.

I don't like reading badly written threads on silly made-up things I personally don't believe (even more so when it is obviously a plot to scam people or sucker others), but yet those types of threads are up on the forum all day every day.

If those types of things are to be the "majority" of content on ATS, I see nothing wrong with a few wise-ass skeptics coming in and cleaning house.

And face it...the house is filthy with fakes.

Am I saying UFOs are fake? Nope...but bet your bottom dollar the people on here saying they are aliens from space and looking for donations while selling a self-published Ebook are "not telling the truth" and/or "mentally ill".

You don't have to comment at all.

I never have to.

This one was a free gift to your thread.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Mr Mask]

I have been on ATS for about a year-and-a-half now. I was immediately fascinated by some of the threads and amazing source of info found here. I was initially also very impressed with the decorum and respect to each other, no matter how 'silly' it was.

Lately, I would say 4-6 months, there has seemed to me to be a rapid decline in said respect. I wasn't sure if it was just my perspective. Glad to see that others have noticed it too.

There are many more 'hate' threads, whose only goal is to be derogatory and inflammatory without any intent for discussion or debate. I will note that the couple of times I alerted the mods, they immediately shut them down. Thank you.

The other disturbing trend I have noticed is the immediate attacks to brand new posters. Rather than give helpful tips or info, they are 'jumped' and called stupid and belittled for starting the thread in the first place. These types of behaviors are completely against everything that I thought ATS stood for.

As far as posters who think it is okay to act that way, how about you just try and control yourself and NOT post? I have been guilty lately of getting drawn into these 'hate' traps and have learned to just not even open a thread that looks to be hateful, or exit out as soon as I recognize it for what it is.

I think that if we all do our part and alert the mods to posters that are violating the T&C's, and they do their part and enforce it, than ATS can continue to be a place of open, friendly discussion and debate.

Originally posted by westcoast

I think that if we all do our part and alert the mods to posters that are violating the T&C's, and they do their part and enforce it, than ATS can continue to be a place of open, friendly discussion and debate.

And THERE is the answer.

Star for you sir.

May I also add, the mods run the site well and all real problems are normally handled.

Nothing wrong with being an ass...something hugely wrong with baiting/harassing/racism and whatever else belongs in that list.

But make no mistake...as long as there are stupid threads (or hoaxes behind threads), there will be skeptics with attitude.

And thank God(s) for that.



[edit on 20-2-2010 by Mr Mask]

reply to post by Mr Mask

Some people just post in a more entertaining way.
And some are just not nice people.
Nothing wrong with being a funny little dork or a mean person.
In short "there is no rules against people being an ass".

Translation: I can get away with being ass, and I find it entertaining...I enjoy being an ass, so I will.

I see this thread as silly fluff.
so what if a poster is an ass as long as he isn't breaking rules.

Different motivations lead to different methods.

Adressing the original poster, I refer you to this post. Here is a person who is outright stating that they think it's perfectly acceptable to be a jerk and to take pleasure it.

I see nothing wrong with a few wise-ass skeptics coming in and cleaning house.
And face it...the house is filthy with fakes.

People who take pleasure in being a jerk, people who perceive ATS as a "filthy house" that requires cleaning by their asshattery...these sorts of people are condusive to a very different environment here on ATS than people who perceive ATS as a discussion ground for sharing ideas.

This is why some people are jerks. They enjoy it, and they believe it's well and proper and good for them to be jerks, since after alll...

"there is no rules against people being an ass"

This thread is a perfect example of why the rant section from BTS should be moved to ATS.

This thread from a moderator, no less!

Being the rear end of an animal does not apply to the UFO forum only!

Nothing amazes me on this entire site anymore!

Originally posted by LordBucket

Translation: I can get away with being ass, and I find it entertaining...I enjoy being an ass, so I will.

Come now...I've seen even you get on your jerk horse before in more then a handful of posts...are you as rancid and awful as scum like me? Heck no...you need much practice.

Joke...see?

Anyways...like I said...a snide reply is not below you.

Different motivations lead to different methods.

Motivation...THATS a huge part of this.

If the jerk/ass is out for blood because he just likes the taste...then the guy/girl/alien is a bad apple.

If his motivation is "truth" but his style is sarcasm or jest...sorry, ain't seeing the demon label there.

Adressing the original poster, I refer you to this post. Here is a person who is outright stating that they think it's perfectly acceptable to be a jerk and to take pleasure it.

Since you are talking about me, let me congradulate you.

Yes...I am someone who thinks blunt and direct actions verses hoaxes and crazy folk is needed.

If the motive behind the crazy/hoaxer is one of treachery and deceit then he/she/it is being the jerk. Not responding with "bite" may be your way...not mine.

I kick holes in doors that conceal lies and tricksters.

I even bark and drool while doing it.

People who take pleasure in being a jerk, people who perceive ATS as a "filthy house" that requires cleaning by their asshattery...these sorts of people are condusive to a very different environment here on ATS than people who perceive ATS as a discussion ground for sharing ideas.

I see...

Remind me not to ever share with you how I feel about society or our governments as well.

By the way...asshatery has no goal or purpose other then mindless giggles and stupidity.

I dare say sir, I have never shared such a thing with anyone in my life.

Not here...not anywhere.

And yes...ATS is crawling with trolls, crazies and hoaxes.

If you find me finding that "fact" apparent to be some sin, nail me up.

This is why some people are jerks. They enjoy it, and they believe it's well and proper and good for them to be jerks, since after alll...

Lets turn this around the other way to see what I think.

This world is filled with killers, criminals, junkies, pedophiles and con-artists because enough people don't kick their doors down (metaphorically).

Yes I think its ok to bite the hand that poisons you.

Yes I find it ok to bark at the liar.

Yes I find it ok to be rude to anyone dumb enough to consider me stupid enough to fall for their made-up BS.

You are more of a peaceful person then I am...no doubt about that.

But there are places for barking madmen in pursuit of damaging the egos (and endeavors) of the criminal and/or dishonest mind.

You want to be all polite and open minded with a guy selling people his story on how he is the alien messiah...have fun.

In fact...its the moral high road you choose.

Me? I'm scum and I am a danger to all hoaxers in my path.

Just how I am.

"there is no rules against people being an ass"

Thank god... Imagine how many posters who are absolutely a RIOT (pure comedians) would be forced to leave if it was a crime to be ass-like.

ATS's audience would dwarf, and boy would that be bad business for all.

You live in a world of asses...I am sorry...but it is true.

If you are evolved above such stupidity, bless you.

I am not...nor would I ever choose to be.

After all, I find sitting nicely while a huckster prowls to be a cowardly thing.

Thats just me.

Not you obviously, because your reply to me wasn't "jerkish"...eh? EH?

Yeah...thanks for the reply, guy.

I guess we can all be a little jerky at times.



[edit on 20-2-2010 by Mr Mask]

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Mr Mask]

Accidental double post.

My apologies.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Mr Mask]

Ah..

Now I get it ! This is probably a reason for ATS restrictions on sceptic replies , not being very strict at all.

Mr. Mask is right !

You can not punish people for there personal way of telling ( within the already present limits ) a thread is bogus nonsense.

You can also not demand for everybody to behave non-human. We are not all perfect, nobody is.

We need them ! Some people like Mr, Mask respond different. Their also who react different. The need a sneer just to get the point.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
Ah..

Mr. Mask is right !

I usually am. Thank you.

You can not punish people for there personal way of telling ( within the already present limits )

Bingo, my friend...absolutely.

You can also not demand for everybody to behave non-human. We are not all perfect, nobody is.

I applaud you.

We need them ! Some people like Mr, Mask respond different. Their also who react different. The need a sneer just to get the point.

Damn skippy!

I have a hard enough time not being banned for breaking the rules around here...I'll be damned if I have to also pay attention to how "sweet and pleasant" my scorn comes off as.

Scum like me don't have the slightest interest in "not being an ass".

And beware to those who think it is the "law of this jungle" to not have a bit of wit and a little jab reserved for the ribs of those who deserve it.

Physically slapping someone is assault.

Verbally being an ass is my duty as an ambassador of Assland.

Anyone don't like it...that is not my problem (or even a thing that concerns me).

I'm nice enough...I know where the limit is and do a darn good job trying to remain within it.

Star for you sir!

And a salute to all the "asses" who do a "good credit" to ATS. (there are many)



[edit on 21-2-2010 by Mr Mask]

Originally posted by Mr Mask

Verbally being an ass is my duty as an ambassador of Assland.

A self proclaimed and self-absorbed ass on the internet.
You are very important.

reply to post by neformore


Rock on daddy-O many are feeling the very same sentiment and you have summed this up very nicely.